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This thread is sorta like watching my family argue about politics...just sayin'.
I agree Completely!
At the end of the day you believe what you want & do what pleases you, just do your homework/research first! I think every car forum I've been on has had this topic more often then i'd like.
 

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Yes, elsewhere in the world 5w30 is specified for the 2.5 NA. the CAFE requirements are only mandated in north america after all. But since up to 10w50 is OK in australia, this means that 5w30 is still mild for hot weather conditions, let alone 0w20.

Ticker, you said you have oil analysis reports claiming that 0w20 does not accelerate metal wear in your engine at 150K miles. can we see them?
What, you can't be bothered to read it in this thread where I've already posted the latest I have, which includes SIX samples since the engine (and car) was basically brand new - and in which the lab comments that my wear metals are indistinguishable on a statistical basis from those found in unused oil?

The engine is due for another sample on its next change interval, which at the rate I drive will be within the next 2-3 months.
 

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This thread is sorta like watching my family argue about politics...just sayin'.
I agree Completely!
At the end of the day you believe what you want & do what pleases you, just do your homework/research first! I think every car forum I've been on has had this topic more often then i'd like.
Ehhhh yes and no......Politics are a completely different game because they're based a LOT on opinion and speculation - which oil to use and when to use it has been studied again and again for decades by tens of thousands of people and billions of dollars, and there's a plethora of information available to back the facts ticker and I have been stating.

Then again, Socialism has been 'studied' again and again for decades by millions and people still have the opinion that it can work.....but that's not a discussion for this thread. ;)

@idrive the Ambient temperatures in Mexico are almost identical to those of many southern US states - meaning the oil choice is not decided on that detail:

Mexico: https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Mexico/average-annual-temperatures.php
Texas: https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/texas/united-states/3213
Arizona: https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/arizona/united-states/3172
Florida: https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/florida/united-states/3179

You're talking a few degrees F deviation here - that's NOT enough to warrant going against manufacturer recommendations from an oil that can already handle operating at temperatures above 400F.
 

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What, you can't be bothered to read it in this thread where I've already posted the latest I have, which includes SIX samples since the engine (and car) was basically brand new - and in which the lab comments that my wear metals are indistinguishable on a statistical basis from those found in unused oil?

The engine is due for another sample on its next change interval, which at the rate I drive will be within the next 2-3 months.
Clearly he doesn't like acknowledging our data as I replied (and mentioned him by name) with my results as well and that's when he left the forum for 9 months.

For those curious, here's ticker's original reply (on the first page, mind you) https://forum.mazda6club.com/mazda6-atenza/422625-why-many-you-should-not-use-0w20.html#post4904809

And here's mine: https://forum.mazda6club.com/mazda6...ny-you-should-not-use-0w20-5.html#post4922034
 

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Apparently these are the weights Mazda recommends in Australia: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2616312

5w30, even for the hot summer season is still a little thin. I run 5w40 year-round in both my vehicles here in Toronto. As long as your car is garage stored during a cold winter, you won't need to go any thinner during the cold months.

At first I thought you were Australian since you kept posting this whirlpool link based in Australia. Anyway, I didn't see anything from Mazda in that link specifically saying what they recommend down there. I saw a lot of opinions and, "this is what I heard" commentary, but nothing from Mazda Corp. It's also for the Mazda 3, but I digress as they are the same motor.

What we do have for our North American cars, including your Canadian-sourced vehicle, is a very specific part of the owner's manual specifying 0W-20, 5W-20 or 5W-30 if you live in Mexico. Do you have a link from an Australian Mazda 6 owner's manual specifying otherwise?

It cannot be denied or discounted the NA market is influenced by CAFE requirements, however, Mazda engineers would have had a say in that. Clearly the motor works just fine with 0W-20 synthetic oil and that would have had to been tested thoroughly before publishing it in the owner's manual. My 2014 Touring is pushing 120,000 miles with zero engine oil related problems so far running on 0W-20.

Your thread title comes off a bit elitist by assuming your engineering knowledge exceeds the capabilities of an $8.4 billion dollar car manufacturer. And this particular piece of knowledge appears based on an Australian-based forum that doesn't actually have any concrete facts in it. But as others have said, run the oil that helps you sleep at night.


 

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This guy is just arguing for the sake of it. You can't convince him otherwise, no matter how many UOA's you show. Clearly, to continue trying is a waste of time.
 

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This guy is just arguing for the sake of it. You can't convince him otherwise, no matter how many UOA's you show. Clearly, to continue trying is a waste of time.
That's fine - he can argue all he wants, he can have any opinion he wants, and he can use any oil he wants. That's what's great about a forum and personal freedom!

The fact of the matter is that several of us have shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that his opinion is wrong. Whether or not the people lurking this forum agree with us or not is up to them :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
That's fine - he can argue all he wants, he can have any opinion he wants, and he can use any oil he wants. That's what's great about a forum and personal freedom!

The fact of the matter is that several of us have shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that his opinion is wrong. Whether or not the people lurking this forum agree with us or not is up to them :)
You guys haven't proved anything to counter my argument. The very most those UOA's have proved is that 0w20 is good enough to protect your engine over an extended period of time. Is it better than using 5w40 under similar conditions? The only way to find out is to take two identical Mazda's and drive them both to 300K, one using 0w20 the other using 5w40 and take UOA reports along the way.

I just find it incredible the amount of ignorance you guys exhibit in regards to the CAFE requirements. Most of you assume that the engineers had a say in what is mandated by CAFE? Amazing.
 

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@idrive the Ambient temperatures in Mexico are almost identical to those of many southern US states - meaning the oil choice is not decided on that detail:
I said I was done with this thread but there is so much misinformation AND lack there of, I need to make a short and sweet reply, I'm sure most of you will continue the argument. I can promise this is my last post as know it alls will never acknowledge anything other than what they think.

When Mazda ships their vehicles to NA it doesn't matter which State it's going to. It's going to get 0W-20 because it's a one size fits all and mandated whether going to Wisconsin or Texas. Much like the tires. If they used a Summer tire the folks up North would complain much like the folks down South complain about the tires they do use.

Japan has a climate similar to the US. Hot Summers, cold Winters. NONE of their cars there are filled with 0W-20. They come from the Factory with 5W-30. They don't have the mandates NA (and Puerto Rico) has. My friend that lives in Japan has confirmed this for me.

Except U.S.A., Canada, and Puerto Rico every Mazda leaves the Factory with SAE 5W-30 engine oil.

The point is this. There are many factors that go into which Motor Oil to use. Ambient temps are ONE of them.

One more thing, the Sky-Active engine runs hotter through the combustion area than most DI engines. This engineering feat is one of the reasons carbon build up is minimized in this Engine. This is another reason to use a Motor Oil that protects better at higher temps.

I said it before, I'll say it again. IF I lived where it got down into the single digits I would be prone to use the 0W-20 but I don't. At higher temps the 5W-30 is better protection and I'm not just talking about engine wear, I'm talking about burnt valves, scorched piston along with other items that don't do well with increase heat.

Carry on with the bantering. It will never end - except for me,

cuz now it's 40 oats and 40 oats to this thread 80oats. :laugh2:
 

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You know? I had this elaborate response ready to go that had a list of all the claims Inline has made (with quotes and links) and all the responses/documentation/examples which proved him wrong. I wanted to post it to show him that all his truths aren't the truth.

However, in my research I came across some other posts by him, which led me to the various other websites where he's made the exact same nonsensical arguments. While dozens of forum-goers and experienced minds brought facts and statistics, Inline doesn't care about those and continued on his tirades.
@Get Inline - if you expect to come to this forum, create threads with the hubris to tell us that the recommended oil for our cars is wrong, provide ZERO statistical evidence to support your claim, and blatantly ignore the evidence refuting your position (like you've done more than a handful of times now), then we can't continue to allow this thread (or any like it) to continue, as it's a waste of everyone's time.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I LOVE when we've got threads going strong on this forum with lively discussion and tons of facts, information, experience, stories, etc being thrown around - but when you come here, like your other forums, with a vendetta against recommended products and can't give an argument that holds water, then none of us benefit.

I thank EVERYONE for keeping this discussion civil throughout the whole time, but please don't reply unless you've got evidence to support your claim - otherwise I'll have to close this down.
 

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That's fine - he can argue all he wants, he can have any opinion he wants, and he can use any oil he wants. That's what's great about a forum and personal freedom!

The fact of the matter is that several of us have shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that his opinion is wrong. Whether or not the people lurking this forum agree with us or not is up to them :)

Completely agree!
 

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I just find it incredible the amount of ignorance you guys exhibit in regards to the CAFE requirements. Most of you assume that the engineers had a say in what is mandated by CAFE? Amazing.

Of course Mazda engineers don't have a political say in CAFE requirements. They do have a say within Mazda. As in the lawyers come to them asking if 0W20 works. They say sure. Mazda as a car company operating in North America now commits their lineup, warranty, life-expectancy and fuel estimates on 0W20.



Come on dude...
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
When Mazda ships their vehicles to NA it doesn't matter which State it's going to. It's going to get 0W-20 because it's a one size fits all and mandated whether going to Wisconsin or Texas. Much like the tires. If they used a Summer tire the folks up North would complain much like the folks down South complain about the tires they do use.

Japan has a climate similar to the US. Hot Summers, cold Winters. NONE of their cars there are filled with 0W-20. They come from the Factory with 5W-30. They don't have the mandates NA (and Puerto Rico) has. My friend that lives in Japan has confirmed this for me.

Except U.S.A., Canada, and Puerto Rico every Mazda leaves the Factory with SAE 5W-30 engine oil.

The point is this. There are many factors that go into which Motor Oil to use. Ambient temps are ONE of them.

One more thing, the Sky-Active engine runs hotter through the combustion area than most DI engines. This engineering feat is one of the reasons carbon build up is minimized in this Engine. This is another reason to use a Motor Oil that protects better at higher temps.

I said it before, I'll say it again. IF I lived where it got down into the single digits I would be prone to use the 0W-20 but I don't. At higher temps the 5W-30 is better protection and I'm not just talking about engine wear, I'm talking about burnt valves, scorched piston along with other items that don't do well with increase heat.
You know? I had this elaborate response ready to go that had a list of all the claims Inline has made (with quotes and links) and all the responses/documentation/examples which proved him wrong. I wanted to post it to show him that all his truths aren't the truth.

However, in my research I came across some other posts by him, which led me to the various other websites where he's made the exact same nonsensical arguments. While dozens of forum-goers and experienced minds brought facts and statistics, Inline doesn't care about those and continued on his tirades.

@Get Inline - if you expect to come to this forum, create threads with the hubris to tell us that the recommended oil for our cars is wrong, provide ZERO statistical evidence to support your claim, and blatantly ignore the evidence refuting your position (like you've done more than a handful of times now), then we can't continue to allow this thread (or any like it) to continue, as it's a waste of everyone's time.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again - I LOVE when we've got threads going strong on this forum with lively discussion and tons of facts, information, experience, stories, etc being thrown around - but when you come here, like your other forums, with a vendetta against recommended products and can't give an argument that holds water, then none of us benefit.

I thank EVERYONE for keeping this discussion civil throughout the whole time, but please don't reply unless you've got evidence to support your claim - otherwise I'll have to close this down.


I really don't like to sound ignorant or like I am simply ignoring information, so I am presenting my own. A graph indicating which oil temperatures are appropriate for the Skyactiv engine. According to this graph, 0w20 gives you a slight edge in -40C weather... and that's it. With this graph in mind, I think serious considerations should be made to choose an oil weight appropriate for your driving styles and ambient conditions.

With that being said, I stand by my opinion on this matter. Many of you might have a differing opinion because you choose to accept what CAFE mandates in one small part of the world like a bunch of sheep, and that's fine. This is part of the freedom of being able to have your own opinion. But I have backed my ideas with information and plenty of logical counter-arguments so I don't see why my opinion is irrelevant if everyone is allowed to have their own.
 

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According to this graph, 0w20 gives you a slight edge in -40C weather... and that's it.
Jeez, 11 pages of misinformation to come back to "The choice between 0W-20 and 5W-30 doesn't make a difference except in extreme cold". You started the thread touting the quieter performance of Liqui-Moly, while (IMO) incorrectly attributing it to the weight of the oil and not the additives. Liqui-Moly made it's name in anti-friction additives that - surprise, surprise, promise benefits like a quieter drivetrain, reduced noise and friction, smoother performance, etc. Do you think they might have some of those additives in their motor oil?

Interestingly, Liqui-Moly also makes a 0W-20 version of their oil. It would be worth trying that one out to see if you still get the quietness improvements you initially cited without having to deviate Mazda's recommended spec. That would also tell you whether it's the additives or the viscosity that's accounting for the differences you noticed by switching brands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 · (Edited)
Jeez, 11 pages of misinformation to come back to "The choice between 0W-20 and 5W-30 doesn't make a difference except in extreme cold". You started the thread touting the quieter performance of Liqui-Moly, while (IMO) incorrectly attributing it to the weight of the oil and not the additives. Liqui-Moly made it's name in anti-friction additives that - surprise, surprise, promise benefits like a quieter drivetrain, reduced noise and friction, smoother performance, etc. Do you think they might have some of those additives in their motor oil?

Interestingly, Liqui-Moly also makes a 0W-20 version of their oil. It would be worth trying that one out to see if you still get the quietness improvements you initially cited without having to deviate Mazda's recommended spec. That would also tell you whether it's the additives or the viscosity that's accounting for the differences you noticed by switching brands.
I used to use Castrol 0w20. Then I tried Castrol 5w30 and it made a big difference with valvetrain noise. The Liqui Moly was a similar story. In my experience, it wasn't the brand of oil that made a difference, but the weight. You should try for yourself if you are not convinced.

So my question is, what exactly is the point of 0w20 if Mazda states that even 10w50 is totally fine to use, even in up to -20C conditions? This makes 0w20 practically worthless unless you live in northern Siberia.

My understanding is, that other than lowering the average MPG's across the manufacturers lineup, 0w20 has zero other uses.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2722728
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
Here is a comment from a moderator over at Mazdas247:

I got about 50-75ml out of my catch-can when I changed my oil plus some that spilled out when I took the cap off the hose. That's after about 7000 miles which is the longest interval I've done this far. It's also the least amount of catch I've drained since I've had the can. I drained out 5w30. The previous times I've changed my oil was usually around 5k, with OEM 0w20 moly and it produced way more catch and also the oil was always pitch black compared to the 5w30 I used for a longer period. Seems like the 5w30 is better at reducing blowby however this time I added 0w20 (not OEM).
 

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It's funny to see people disagreeing on that thread as much as people are here. :) This is going to be one of those arguments that never ends.

The original poster lost me when he claimed that Toyota made $3 trillion (wtf?) in CAFE credits last year. For perspective, that's equivalent to about 15% of the entire GDP of the United States, and more than the revenue made by the top 10 Fortune 500 companies. Hell, it's about 12X more than the revenue that Toyota made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 · (Edited)
It's funny to see people disagreeing on that thread as much as people are here. :) This is going to be one of those arguments that never ends.

The original poster lost me when he claimed that Toyota made $3 trillion (wtf?) in CAFE credits last year. For perspective, that's equivalent to about 15% of the entire GDP of the United States, and more than the revenue made by the top 10 Fortune 500 companies. Hell, it's about 12X more than the revenue that Toyota made.
I agree, that number sounds ridiculous, but whatever credits the manufacturers are granted is certainly generous enough for them to happily accept the requirements and start recommending 0w20 across the board. This conversation could just keep going and going, so i'll summarize:

Due to CAFE requirements, everyone in North America preaches 0W20, some oil which has zero track record except for one or two people's UOA reports. I find it absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile everywhere else in the world such as Europe, Australia, etc, anything from 5W30 - 10W50 is totally fine to use in basically any weather conditions. Based on all of this reasonable evidence, I think it's ridiculous anyone could make the argument that a thicker oil shouldn't be used based on your climate.

But most of all, in Japan, where the vehicle is actually engineered and built, they are filled with 5W30 from the factory. And people still trumpet this 0w20 fanfare. I think it's the most naive nonsense I have ever seen.
 
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