I have read through many threads about which tires Mazda6Club members prefer on their cars. I am looking for a good all-season performance tire (for the stock 17" Mazda 6s wheels) that can give me good handling with Ohio's winters and decent performance for the summer. Millage warranty is also pretty important to me since I put a lot of miles on my car.

From the posts I have looked at thus far, it seems like Kumhos, Yokohamas, and Falken are the top picks for a budget of less than $125 per tire.

The tires I have looked at online so far are as follows:

Falken Ziex ZE-512

Dunlop SP Sport A2 Plus

Kumho Ecsta ASX

Yokohama AVS ES100

Yokohama AVID V4S

Which of the above tires would you choose considering my requirements listed above? Feel free to recommend different tires if I missed something good.[/b]

Among the tires you list, for my own use I would choose the Yokohama AVS ES100. But the ES100s are not all season tires (a quality that I consider to be a good thing; I will not mount all season tires on any vehicle that I personally expect to drive on wet roads, and I sincerely wish thatthose who share the wet roads with me would follow my example). If you must have all season tires, Tire Guy (formerly Toyo Guy) actively promotes the Toyo Proxes4, and they seem to be as good an all season tire as any out there (with the possible exception of the more expensive Bridgestone '960AS).

 

I will not mount all season tires on any vehicle that I personally expect to drive on wet roads, and I sincerely wish thatthose who share the wet roads with me would follow my example). If you must have all season tires, Tire Guy (formerly Toyo Guy) actively promotes the Toyo Proxes4, and they seem to be as good an all season tire as any out there (with the possible exception of the more expensive Bridgestone '960AS).[/b]

Can you elaborate on this statement?

So..in your scenario...with wet roads, which "genre" of tire would you recommend one use?

 

Can you elaborate on this statement?

So..in your scenario...with wet roads, which "genre" of tire would you recommend one use?[/b]

summer tires

 

summer tires[/b]

"Summer tires" perform on wet roads?

My uneducated thinking was "Summer Tires" implies dry pavement. Time to open the notepad and jot some reference notes......

 

Summer tires are good for warm weather. Now racing slicks are bad for wet conditions but there are many summer tires that were designed for superb wet traction. A good summer tires will beat an all-season in everything but cold climate driving.

 

"Summer tires" perform on wet roads?

My uneducated thinking was "Summer Tires" implies dry pavement. Time to open the notepad and jot some reference notes......[/b]

Summer tires can be referred to as "three season tires." They are the best at everything EXCEPT snow, ice and winter temperature, which you'll get in Ohio (for the OP).

 

I will not mount all season tires on any vehicle that I personally expect to drive on wet roads, and I sincerely wish thatthose who share the wet roads with me would follow my example). If you must have all season tires, Tire Guy (formerly Toyo Guy) actively promotes the Toyo Proxes4, and they seem to be as good an all season tire as any out there (with the possible exception of the more expensive Bridgestone '960AS).[/b]

Can you elaborate on this statement?

So..in your scenario...with wet roads, which "genre" of tire would you recommend one use?
[/b]

Generally, "summer" (three season) tires will brake about two car lengths shorter than will all season tires from highway speeds on wet pavement.

"All season" tires are called that because the chemical composition of the tread portion of the tire has been modified so that, instead of shedding water (as is the natural proclivity of rubber compounds), the tread will stick to water (which is the state of snow at the surface when it is compressed by the weight of the car). If the tread did not stick to the water -- if water did not stick to the tread -- then the tire would have almost no snow traction (that is "go" as opposed to "stop"), a quality that is typically true of "summer" or three-season tires. So the tire is modified to make water stick to, rather than run off, the tread. But in a modern car with antilock brakes, that means that a new wet portion of tread is constantly being presented to the place where the tire and the pavement interact, an area that for optimal braking you want to be as dry as possible.

Independent of the necessary engineering compromise made to wet traction to gain snow traction, most all season tires also are subject to a marketing compromise. The tire makers figure that the reason why people want to purchase one set of four all season tires instead of a total of eight tires, comprising four winter tires and four three-season tires, is price. So, catering to that market, the tire manufacturers usually make their all season tires (1) with inexpensive materials, and (2) to have high treadwear ratings, because price and treadwear are the first and second criteria for the average person who is shopping for all season tires. If you are designing a tire for high performance, materials price and treadwear ratings fall much farther down the list of priorities. So, except when there is light snow on the ground, almost all three season tires will easily outperform almost all all season tires.

However, there are some "summer" tires that really are summer tires, not three-season tires. (See below.) But most "non all season" tires are really three season tires.

 

Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS looks to have the best rating (all superior except excellent in winter) link here

 

Summer tires can be referred to as "three season tires." They are the best at everything EXCEPT snow, ice and winter temperature, which you'll get in Ohio (for the OP).[/b]

In fact, many "summer" tires perform better in cold temperatures than do many all season tires.

All rubber compounds get harder as the temperature drops, and all get softer as the temperature rises. Up to a point, the softer the tread compound, the more it is like an art gum eraser, the better the car will corner, and the better it will brake. Conversely, when the rubber in the tread compound is very hard, it will skip across the top of the pavement like a well thrown flat stone across the calm surface of a lake in summer.

Most "summer" tires are designed, at least in part, for performance, so they tend to start out with a tread compound that is softer than the tread compound of most all season tires. Most all season tires are designed with a cost-conscious target purchaser, and so they are designed to have good treadwear ratings. The most direct method to make a tire wear more slowly is to make the rubber harder, so all season tires tend to come with harder tread compounds.

There are technologies that allow a tread compound to maintain a fairly uniform hardness over a wide range of operating temperatures. As you might expect, applying those technologies is not cost free, driving up the cost of the tire. Again, those technologies are applied sparingly to all season tires to keep the cost and the price down.

At just above freezing, the tread compounds of most "summer" tires will be softer than the tread compounds of most all season tires. As you go down below that, to below freezing, the treads of the summer tires will get progressively harder, but so will the treads of the all season tires, and the all season tires' tread compounds were harder to begin with. And it is less likely that the all season tires will have the benefit of the temperature range-extending technologies that may have been used in the "summer" tires.

That said, there are some tires that are truly "summer" -- that is, warm weather -- tires. Most racing tires are designed to perform optimally when hot, so they fall in the true "summer" (not three-season) category. Michelin's BFGoodrich subsidiary makes a pair of "summer" tires with the respective suffixes KD and KDW. "KD" stands for "killer dry" and the tire was optimized for the best possible performance on hot dry surfaces. "KDW" stands for "killer dry wet," indicating that some of the dry performance of the KD has been traded off for acceptable wet-road performance. Similarly, at the top of Yokohama's ADVAN line, the ADVAN Neova is really a street-legal racing tire, one that runs at its best when hot, and is very quick under those conditions. But the Neova is a terrible cold weather tire. The Neova's sister tire, the ADVAN Sport, has been engineered to perform well over an exceptionally wide range of temperatures (but it would lose out to the Neova in racing or near-racing situations). I would -- and I have -- confidently run ADVAN Sports on dry pavement in sub-freezing conditions, expecting (and having my expectations met) better traction under those conditions that I would likely get from any all season tire.

 

Thanks for the clarification. When I think of summer tires, I get confused with "warm weather" tires, ie., they only work well at non-freezing temps.

 

OMG posttosh, when someones asks for elaboratoration...we'll get our money's worth!

Thanks for the explaination. Where were you when I posted about my quest for tires....dammit.

So where do the General Exclaim UHPs fit in?

And yes...bullion...we high jacked the hell out of your thread!

 

I would no doubt choose to get the Yokohamas if your budget is up to 125 per tires. I've been checking other car forum tire sections and out of the brands you listed yokos seem to have the least complaints.

 

So where do the General Exclaim UHPs fit in?[/b]

General used to be an independent American tire company. Now it is a subsidiary of the German tire company Continental. Continental uses General to make mostly "second line" tires for the North American market. ("Second line" is a term of art, not meant as derogatory. For instance, now that the Lexus line has become well-established, the Toyota brand has become a "second line" brand.) General tires therefore benefit generally from Continental's considerable worldwide R&D budget. I have never driven on Exclaim UHP tires, but they appear to offer good value for the price.

 

If you are considering Yokohamas, don't overlook the YK520 model. It has received great reviews. I may need new tires this fall and these are the top of my list right now.

 

I had a set of Avon Tech M550s on my TL and was quite happy with them. They also come in a summer (Tech M500) version for about the same price ($102-$104) for the 215/50/17 size.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...Tech+M550+A%2FS

 

I had a set of Avon Tech M550s on my TL and was quite happy with them. They also come in a summer (Tech M500) version for about the same price ($102-$104) for the 215/50/17 size.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...Tech+M550+A%2FS[/b]

My mistake on the Yokohama ES100's....those won't work for me since they are not an all-season tire.

 

I haven't bought them yet (and I plan to this summer), but I've heard nothing but good things about the Yoko Avid V4S. A local member has them, and thinks they're very good in the snow, rain, and any other weather you'll encounter.

Yoko has a newer version called the Avid W4S, and it may be worth looking into as well.

 

If you are considering Yokohamas, don't overlook the YK520 model. It has received great reviews. I may need new tires this fall and these are the top of my list right now.[/b]

Hmm. "It has received great reviews." The YK520 is a "house" tire made for and sold exclusively by Discount Tire. You cannot purchase a YK520 anywhere but at Discount Tire; unless you shop at Discount Tire, you will never even know the YK520 exists. AFAIK, the YK520 has never received a review by an independent testing organization; all the reviews you can access about the YK520 are those that are published on the Discount Tire website.

Discount Tire does not do in-house performance testing as Tire Rack does, so the source of the reviews is exclusively customers who would not have heard of the YK520 until told about it by the Discount Tire, and would have been convinced by the sales pitch to purchase the tire. (Try a Wikipedia look-up on "cognitive dissonance.") Among all the models of tires that Discount Tire sells, it has its greatest interest in your wanting tires that it has an exclusive right to sell, because you cannot shop around and buy them somewhere else. Does that make you credulous about the favorable reviews that Discount Tire publishes on its website for a tire model that no other retailer can sell? (Not to pick on Discount Tire: the same analysis would apply to any glowing reviews sourced from Tire Rack of the Avon tires that no one else sells.)

 

Hmm. "It has received great reviews." The YK520 is a "house" tire made for and sold exclusively by Discount Tire. You cannot purchase a YK520 anywhere but at Discount Tire; unless you shop at Discount Tire, you will never even know the YK520 exists. AFAIK, the YK520 has never received a review by an independent testing organization; all the reviews you can access about the YK520 are those that are published on the Discount Tire website.

Discount Tire does not do in-house performance testing as Tire Rack does, so the source of the reviews is exclusively customers who would not have heard of the YK520 until told about it by the Discount Tire, and would have been convinced by the sales pitch to purchase the tire. (Try a Wikipedia look-up on "cognitive dissonance.") Among all the models of tires that Discount Tire sells, it has its greatest interest in your wanting tires that it has an exclusive right to sell, because you cannot shop around and buy them somewhere else. Does that make you credulous about the favorable reviews that Discount Tire publishes on its website for a tire model that no other retailer can sell? (Not to pick on Discount Tire: the same analysis would apply to any glowing reviews sourced from Tire Rack of the Avon tires that no one else sells.)[/b]

Yes, good point, I forgot to mention that they are only sold at Discount/America's Tire, so they might not be available near everyone. But that isn't "the only" place information exists for them, try Yokohama's website too.

It is quite possible that some people had never heard of the tire before going into the store. I've bought several sets of tires there before and have never been "sold" a tire, I always knew what I wanted ahead of time and just told the guy. But that's me.

The reviews I refer to include reviews from other sites as well, ethusiast sites like this one for various vehicles. You don't believe Discount Tire would filter the reviews to include only a few bad ones do you? I'd like to think not (but it is possible. Why should I put less value on those people's reviews than I would assign to any other site, including this one?

What I'm getting at is just because they are made only for them doesn't make them bad tires. Kenmore is a "house brand" for Sears, made for them primarily by Whirlpool. Is Kenmore crap? No, they are often among the highest rated large appliances.

Admittedly, this doesn't automatically make them great tires either. But there's no reason someone shouldn't consider them if looking for that type of tire. They should read the reviews, compare the specs, and make up their own mind.

Thanks for the reply though, I'll remove them from the "top of my list" until I'm ready to buy, then I'll see what the reviews are like then. They are relatively new, heck, who knows, by then there could be tread separation issues and recalls all over the place!!!

 

You don't believe Discount Tire would filter the reviews to include only a few bad ones do you? I'd like to think not (but it is possible. Why should I put less value on those people's reviews than I would assign to any other site, including this one?


What I'm getting at is just because they are made only for them doesn't make them bad tires. Kenmore is a "house brand" for Sears, made for them primarily by Whirlpool. Is Kenmore crap? No, they are often among the highest rated large appliances.[/b]

I agree on all points. My point was not that the YK520 is not a bad tire, but that great reviews sourced from the only seller of a product should be taken with more than a grain of salt. It is easy to imagine a situation (NOTE: I am NOT saying this actually happens, but rather conjuring a pure hypotheticalthat may have no basis whatsoever in reality) where a company's salesmen are encouraged to write a positive "review" for the company website using the customer's data but a fictitious name every time a set of tires is sold. Then, even though the website would remain open to real customers' reviews, the positive ones easily would swamp the occasional negative ones.

 

in what exmaples do summer tires perform better? the addition to your logic (which makes sense) is that summer times have a hotter operating temp. making operation in 10 degree weather unbearable as its impossible for them to heat up to safe operating temps. my RE050's were rock hard in the winter time. i felt like i was sliding everywhere

 

what's up with the toyo proxes 4 i just called around and the stores are telling me these are no longer being made??


any help here?

thanks

TJ

 

www.tireswap.com

the Proxes should be avail there.

 

in what exmaples do summer tires perform better?[/b]

Just about any situation where there is not light, unpacked snow on the ground.

the addition to your logic (which makes sense) is that summer times have a hotter operating temp. making operation in 10 degree weather unbearable as its impossible for them to heat up to safe operating temps. my RE050's were rock hard in the winter time. i felt like i was sliding everywhere[/b]

Most "summer" tires have a tread compound that -- at any given temperature -- is softer than most all season tires at the same temperature. Softer tread compounds usually translate to better handling and -- more importantly -- better braking. As temperatures go down, the soft compounds of "summer" tires get harder; as temperatures go down, the harder compounds of all season tires also get harder, but the all season tires have a head start, and rarely relinquish that lead.

There are some "summer" tires that really are summer tires, and their tread compoounsds are optimized for high temperatures only. But most "summer" tires are really "three and a half season" tires, and in areas that rarely see snow, they are the real "all season" tires.