[f2usa]

I will let randy reply to this one since he is the Mazda Master Tech.....he has worked at numerous dealers and he has done seen many at the dealers...

As for my racing incident that was stock motor that was never touched by us...

So you can finger point but we have seen this many of times and especially on the dyno...no matter if you are Focus 2.0L or 2.3L....or a Mazda

I am looking at it from every angle...maybe here you guys have had an issue...but explain too me what an interference motor means to you?

 

[charles]

QUOTE (f2usa @ Nov 16 2009, 10:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1617103

From what we have seen in the past and what has personally happened to me...the car slipped timing...

Something similar happened to me on the race track...bigger wheels and Brembo brakes racing hard, shifting hard and then I missed a shift heard a loud noise from the transmission when I release the gear...then the car lost power big time....limped around the track came in the pits...checked the crank bolt and it was loose...How I know it was loose is when we tried to move the engine with the wrench to get a better grip it took no real effort to back the bolt up....made sure the car was TDC and re-timed it...was back on the track for the next session....car is still running in Michigan to this day....

Good thing I had another bolt...the crank bolts can really only be reused once twice if you are daring.....[/b]

Well... we built a 400+ MZR and it has NEVER slipped timing like what you are talking about. This is the first case of this with the MZR motor that i know of and we have modded MZRs with over 300+ hp all over the boards and no one that i know of has had this problem. Also if you have had this happen with all the shock and other things that you mention then why not use something like loctite to hold the bolt from backing out on this and other motors like it. So you are saying that with hard driving on this car there is a good chance that the bolt will back out?? if i have this correct i think this bolt is supposed torqued to 80-90 lbft and then another 90 degrees after that. If this is the case this might be why your bolts have backed out.... I will check on the exact spec later.

Something that you stated earlier was when your car loss power you went to turn the crank and that is when your noticed the bolt loose? Why were you trying to turn the motor with the crank bolt? The car wouldn't turn over or something? That car WAS running it just lost power correct? just trying to understand your thought process when you did that...

 

[yoichi]

Just in awe.....




Didn't this guy just finish his build????

 

[f2usa]

The reason I turned my engine by hand is too put it TDC

I did not want to crank over the engine anymore with the starter...and yes the car was in limp mode...there is really no thought process because I figured what happened...like I said this is not a new issue....

I am glad you built what you built...the issue is not what you heard or I heard but it is based on experience .... Like I said before there are a few people that are on the boards with our built engines and have not had an issue at all...some for years...and some stock motors and built motors are not so lucky..

I am not defending or denying anything...something happened point blank...the issue too me is the following...if you loose power all of a sudden making 350whp and then it drops by 200whp....something happened.

Whether or not we are busy or have other projects the simple thing to do is not drive the car and try to get on it because if John states he was getting 18psi and something happened wouldn't that make it worse...John has our personal cell numbers but never did we get a call until one week later after taking it here and taking it there....that is my point...the minute he told me what a week later what happened it told him the car slipped timing...I knew it...but by that time it was too late the damage was done....

I think anyone can agree that the first thing I would do is compression check, leakdown test is a MUST and then call people....not drive home and get on the forums...because none of us here typing will get his car running...only hands on his car will...

QUOTE (yoichi @ Nov 16 2009, 03:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1617119

Just in awe.....




Didn't this guy just finish his build????[/b]

yes the car started and John took it...we did not get to check everything though...the car ran for 5000 miles....and this happened...
In that time I don't know because I am not the driver....

 

[charles]

QUOTE (f2usa @ Nov 16 2009, 11:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1617120

The reason I turned my engine by hand is too put it TDC

how did you know it was out of TDC?

I did not want to crank over the engine anymore with the starter...and yes the car was in limp mode...there is really no thought process because I figured what happened...like I said this is not a new issue....

So you didn't think something may have went wrong somewhere else? This was the first place you thought to check? How many MZRs have you done that have had this happen? Interesting... Maybe this is the reason for our engines blowing.....

I am glad you built what you built...the issue is not what you heard or I heard but it is based on experience .... Like I said before there are a few people that are on the boards with our built engines and have not had an issue at all...some for years...and some stock motors and built motors are not so lucky..

I am not defending or denying anything...something happened point blank...the issue too me is the following...if you loose power all of a sudden making 350whp and then it drops by 200whp....something happened.


I think anyone can agree that the first thing I would do is compression check, leakdown test is a MUST and then call people....not drive home and get on the forums...because none of us here typing will get his car running...only hands on his car will...

TRUE.. But i am not sure that i would think that my motor just jumped timing nor would i take it back to you immediately. I would take it back to the tuner just to check his tune. Then i would take it to the guy whom installed my parts. Then it would end up back to you in my opinion.

Whether or not we are busy or have other projects the simple thing to do is not drive the car and try to get on it because if John states he was getting 18psi and something happened wouldn't that make it worse...John has our personal cell numbers but never did we get a call until one week later after taking it here and taking it there....that is my point...the minute he told me what a week later what happened it told him the car slipped timing...I knew it...but by that time it was too late the damage was done....



yes the car started and John took it...we did not get to check everything though...the car ran for 5000 miles....and this happened...
In that time I don't know because I am not the driver....


This is why we make sure we break in EVERY MOTOR!! But even if you broke in the motor he had 4500 on the car when it went bad so i am not sure if you would have caught that or not during break in... [/b]

 

[f2usa]

how did you know it was out of TDC?

I wanted to make sure the car was still TDC first before anything else....because the engines are interference motors this can happen...

So you didn't think something may have went wrong somewhere else? This was the first place you thought to check? How many MZRs have you done that have had this happen? Interesting... Maybe this is the reason for our engines blowing.....

It would be the place for me to check because according to the tuner everything else was good and there should have been a compression check and leak-down TEST done on the spot.... didn't somebody else here in this thread mentioned something about having a similar issue?

TRUE.. But i am not sure that i would think that my motor just jumped timing nor would i take it back to you immediately. I would take it back to the tuner just to check his tune. Then i would take it to the guy whom installed my parts. Then it would end up back to you in my opinion.

OK I would agree with this but I would be very careful when I drive it and not wait one week later until it does not start....

This is why we make sure we break in EVERY MOTOR!! But even if you broke in the motor he had 4500 on the car when it went bad so i am not sure if you would have caught that or not during break in...

Another great point...we wanted to BREAK it in but John did not want to wait and he said he would break it in...at that point we said OK then you assume all responsibility...and he said that is FINE....I was not with him on how the car was being driven during the time he left the shop until this happened...

the car was not tuned correctly as well there were some issues with the CPE reflash from what I was told...we did not charge him for the balance he owed so he can take it and get it tuned somewhere else because he could not wait any longer....

 

[MrTea]

i will say that i vouch for F2/Randy 100%, i've seen what they do with cars and have no question on abilities. I've seen blown engines at the track swapped out on the spot by F2/Gillis and back racing by the end of the day. given, something can always be overlooked, just like ANY part can misteriously break...anything can always happen, it's life.

i've yet to see these issues on Mazda's, but most of the cars i see pushing the duratec are on track and are on focus'. i know this has happened in the focus cars, and it's been discussed in the past as my car was being put to limits at times. no issues for me as of yet, 15+psi for a while and plenty of track time....ARP setup, but maybe i'm lucky....or more likely maybe John's unlucky? look up the mtx tranny issues on the early 6 and 3's, some sheered 3rd stock, few turbo guys did it, couple guys running 10psi never had issues.....some are just unlucky.

I never said anything here as i was confused with the comments about John's mechanic being an S2K guy, figured i was thinking the wrong guy because of it, and why i never mentioned it to Ricardo when talking to him. hopefully he gets it figured out soon.

 

[spooo0n]

Well 13 years later I have this issue, and no answer. Stock MS3, building and holding manifold pressure but no power to the wheels. Not the clutch, no boost leak found, nothing. Did just do the timing chain so if it's timing then ah fk.

 

[blackmica]

Before you do this fun job again, first turn engine to TDC and re-check the timing, make sure the crankshaft position sensor is dead-on the tooth, even one mm off on the crank sensor can be too much of a timing advance/retard.

 

[spooo0n]

Should clarify sorry - the car runs and drives, and the turbo spools and builds pressure but it accelerates as if it's not getting enough air. Turbo responds to throttles and I can hear the pressure build and release (cobb intake) but it just bogs down instead of actually making power. It does struggle to hold idle as well..

 

[blackmica]

Still check the timing just in case. Check for vacuum leaks, check MAF, check the fuel system (pressure especially). I don't know, just suggestions.