I would consider the first option. I've seen it done on many cars before and I actually kinda like the look...

 

Ok i spoke with my fabrication shop and here are a couple of options.
Let me know what ya'll think and if its worth it the fabrication shop willing to mass produce.
These are a couple inexpensive methods that can help cool out engines GREATLY~!!! (cause everyone knows we need it bad)

Options 1.
GT hood lifters. Essentially what this does is raises the back end of the hood so it creates vents for the engine bay. This is a very popular mod on GT spec K cars and J cars. Look at any GT circuit car and you will see the back end of the hood raised up for cooling. I have personally done this on previous cars and it is very cheap but helps a great deal. The down side is, the hood lines will not be perfect because the back end of the hood will be lifted. The hood will close fine and lock perfectly just the back end will hit a lil higher. Heres the pro, with hood lifters the engine can do some serious venting (on previous cars i could acutally see the heat coming up from the vents in winter time). This will be relatively cheap and very simple to do, plus we will have much to gain.

Heres bascially waht our hoods will look like

Option 2.
My fabricator is willing to build a more efficient radiator. As we all know with a better cooling radiator, our engines will be much better cooled. It will be a street radiator(meaning daily drive). I dun think i need to get into detail about radiators because we all knwo what they are and why they are good.
anyway everyone post if you are interested. Depending on the response i will let the fabricator know and we can move from there.

Our engines are extremely hot. If you doubt me turn your car on and let it sit for 10-20 min and just feel how hot the engine bay is. Its a freakin sauna. Drive the car for 5-10 min and just look at your engine temp gauge... it moves up very fast. These are just a couple of simple cooling options that we may be able to have available to us. Let me kno~!
[/b]

Here are some other cheap options:

1 Remove the weather stripping from around the engine bay, that usually gives the same effect as your first option.

2 Get a cooler thermostat, possiby from another model, say 180* or 160* and this will make the engine run cooler. Also a second option would be to get a lower temperature cooling fan turn on switch, again check out what other models temperatures are for their fans switches.

Try the simple stuff before you go spending all that money and time. Another option that works on other cars is to get some sort of under panel to create a low pressure area under the engine and suck the air out as you drive, maybe the stock panel can be enhanced somehow or replaced?

A direct rip-off from the Subaru crowd would be an aluminum panel above the radiator to divert air down into the radiator, this would work very well coupled with the removal of the front weather stripping.

Just ideas, trying to spark some tuning ideas.

 

I would consider the first option. I've seen it done on many cars before and I actually kinda like the look...
[/b]

Yea i like the first option to
I haven;t talked to my fabricator on price yet
but the most expensive GT vents i've ever paid for was 80 bucks and that was just because it was completely new hinges with new bolts and really good material lifers.
i'm pretty sure this mod will be a very cheap way for us to get some venting done

 

don;t Raise that HOOD.. Prying eyes and the RAM down force will hurt.
Have a rear cowl put in to flow air from the lower facia and up, around and out the cowl. Even better than a Larger radiator as it will help even the downforce.
-
Yet the Rad is a viable alternative...

 

Here are some other cheap options:

1 Remove the weather stripping from around the engine bay, that usually gives the same effect as your first option.

2 Get a cooler thermostat, possiby from another model, say 180* or 160* and this will make the engine run cooler. Also a second option would be to get a lower temperature cooling fan turn on switch, again check out what other models temperatures are for their fans switches.

Try the simple stuff before you go spending all that money and time. Another option that works on other cars is to get some sort of under panel to create a low pressure area under the engine and suck the air out as you drive, maybe the stock panel can be enhanced somehow or replaced?

A direct rip-off from the Subaru crowd would be an aluminum panel above the radiator to divert air down into the radiator, this would work very well coupled with the removal of the front weather stripping.

Just ideas, trying to spark some tuning ideas.
[/b]

1) removing the weather stripping sounds like a good idea
2) i have never ever ever been a fan of changing the thermostat and my fabricator agrees with me on that one.

the first option i put ou there for teh GT vents is an extremely simple option and it really won;t be a big hole in our wallets =D

don;t Raise that HOOD.. Prying eyes and the RAM down force will hurt.
Have a rear cowl put in to flow air from the lower facia and up, around and out the cowl. Even better than a Larger radiator as it will help even the downforce.
-
Yet the Rad is a viable alternative...
[/b]

GT vents does not raise the hood to the point where its going to kill the car. it is a very subtle slight lift.
And if its really as bad as you say it is? why is it so popular on circuit race cars taht travel at average speeds much more then the average daily driver? take a look at any k-spec or J -spec touring/ circuit car.
a lot of them use this technique.

I have used this technique on the past 3 cars that i build. Never had any issues with them. I have also jsut installed a set on team seoulfuls wrx. Wrx has had absolutely no isses.

 

putting on a Higher lbs cap would help increase the cooling. Just like we do for our track cars. Nissan has done it for decades, as Toyota. And I am certain that Mazda Japan runs higher lbs caps on the JGTC's and Euro challenge vehicles.
This will normally drop temp 6-10deg. And be very beneficial to the pocket also.
Just an Idea

 

I wonder if taking the weather stripping off the back would actually do anything...

 

putting on a Higher lbs cap would help increase the cooling. Just like we do for our track cars. Nissan has done it for decades, as Toyota. And I am certain that Mazda Japan runs higher lbs caps on the JGTC's and Euro challenge vehicles.
This will normally drop temp 6-10deg. And be very beneficial to the pocket also.
Just an Idea
[/b]

I believe there are a few people that makes the caps. Just a thought? doesn;t the rx-8 caps fit on our cars? and if it does, doesn;t that mean we can just stick a cap from like top secret or Sard?

 

You have it backwards. Raising the rear of the hood rams air in, it doesn't let it vent out.

Owners have experimented with removing weather stripping and raising the hood...all it did was raise coolant temps.

The reason cowl induction works, is because the windshield is a high pressure zone. The air flowing over the hood hits the windshield, and then flows to low pressure areas. Generally this is up and over the windshield, but if you have an opening that consists of low pressure area (the hood), the air from the windshield flows back into the engine compartment. At best all the lifters do is create a mess of turbulence in the engine compartment, as air tries to escape the sides, while it gets rammed back in the front.

This topic has been covered before, I'll try to find the thread showing the pressure diagrams.

If you want a way of venting the air from the engine bay, you need to add an outlet prior to the windshield. Generally the dead middle of the hood is a situable low pressure area, which is exactly where most of the evo style hoods put the vents.

It is always more effective to work at the source of the problem, then to try to find cheap "tricks". Everyone should start by borrowing scanners from fellow 6 owners (or purchasing them) and getting consistent data sets of coolant temps. Then you can figure out when the coolant spikes, or if it even spikes at all. Work smarter, not harder.

Found the old thread.

First off, take a look at an air pressure diagram.

Note the blue area over the center of the hood. This is an area of low pressure, and the higher pressure air within the engine compartment can easily escape out any vent or hole in this area. (Evo style hood for example).

Now look at the bottom of the windshield. See how the pressure is significantly higher? (yellowish/orange). This is why cowl induction works. The airflow hitting the windshield creates a pressure area higher then the pressure within the engine compartment, and the air flows to the lower of the two area's, which is through the reverse scoop, into the intake system.

Here's the old thread discussing the exact same concepts you are looking at now.
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=42115&st=0

Mazda6tech thread with temp comparisons
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?...&highlight=hood

I would first start by collecting data...lots and lots of data. Oil temp's and coolant temp's are a good start.

 

You have it backwards. Raising the rear of the hood rams air in, it doesn't let it vent out.

Owners have experimented with removing weather stripping and raising the hood...all it did was raise coolant temps.

The reason cowl induction works, is because the windshield is a high pressure zone. The air flowing over the hood hits the windshield, and then flows to low pressure areas. Generally this is up and over the windshield, but if you have an opening that consists of low pressure area (the hood), the air from the windshield flows back into the engine compartment. At best all the lifters do is create a mess of turbulence in the engine compartment, as air tries to escape the sides, while it gets rammed back in the front.

This topic has been covered before, I'll try to find the thread showing the pressure diagrams.

If you want a way of venting the air from the engine bay, you need to add an outlet prior to the windshield. Generally the dead middle of the hood is a situable low pressure area, which is exactly where most of the evo style hoods put the vents.

It is always more effective to work at the source of the problem, then to try to find cheap "tricks". Everyone should start by borrowing scanners from fellow 6 owners (or purchasing them) and getting consistent data sets of coolant temps. Then you can figure out when the coolant spikes, or if it even spikes at all. Work smarter, not harder.

Found the old thread.

First off, take a look at an air pressure diagram.

Note the blue area over the center of the hood. This is an area of low pressure, and the higher pressure air within the engine compartment can easily escape out any vent or hole in this area. (Evo style hood for example).

Now look at the bottom of the windshield. See how the pressure is significantly higher? (yellowish/orange). This is why cowl induction works. The airflow hitting the windshield creates a pressure area higher then the pressure within the engine compartment, and the air flows to the lower of the two area's, which is through the reverse scoop, into the intake system.

Here's the old thread discussing the exact same concepts you are looking at now.
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=42115&st=0

Mazda6tech thread with temp comparisons
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?...&highlight=hood

I would first start by collecting data...lots and lots of data. Oil temp's and coolant temp's are a good start.
[/b]

damn thats a lot of good information.
as far as the lifters, i have done a lot of data analysis on previous cars. this is the entire reason why i am a fan of this. I will dig out my old data tonight and post it up. Thanks crossbow for the help. That pressure diagram is great and it really shows the effectiveness of cowl inductions. as far as the lifters i will do my part in pulling out my old reasearch that made me a fan of the lifters in the first place. Keep it up. if you have any more info like this put it up. Myabe with 30 people trying to figure out the best way to keep the engine compartment cool we can come up with something really useful

 

The weather stripping removal worked wonders on my s4...

on my supercharged GTP one of the most common mods in the "scene" is to replace the stock 195* thermo with a 180*, it creates a repeatedly measureable difference in temperature. I don't see how any bad could come from it actually. A lot of the guys down south run 160* thermos because they don't need to worry about having heat in the winter, just an idea, I know not all cars are the same but I'd say 80-90% of this game is experimentation and measurement.

 

I think one thing we really need to know is at what speed these low pressure areas actually form.

 

It's not a matter of what speed it forms at, but the magnitude of the pressure difference as speed increases. The low pressure areas will form almost immediately as air moves across the surface of the hood. Just your breath across a straw can suck liquid up it -- that's the same principle of an EVO-style hood, except it's a LOT easier to move air than it is liquid, and the air moving on the hood is a LOT faster than your breath.

 

Shouldn't we be looking into what creates the heat in the first place and attack it at that point? What about frabricating a decent heat shield over the exhaust system? Remember the old saying, an ounce of prevention.....

Maybe a heat shield, with a new base plate that forces air through and over the exhaust from under the car, but not into the engine bay? The air could come in the bottom and then be channeled along the exhaust, but we wouldn't want the exhaust to become too cool and the gas speed would suffer etc.....

Another method would be to remove the exhaust system ( especially the bits in the engine bay ) and have them coated with that ceramic stuff. This would reduce the under hood temps as well.

Of course this would be extremely difficult to build/achieve........ but it could be cooooool

http://www.performancecoatings.com/benefitdata.htm

 

keep in mind that there are no options for the thermostat for the 2.3 yet. i didn't look to confirm that it's the same (or different) than ours, but i'd assume it's the same. because it's one piece unit, there are no current options. though a couple focus owners have completely removed the Thermostat to help with cooling, though warmups in cold weather aren't nice.

 

Still haven't looked into this much... not sure if its the same radiator in the speed as the normal 2.3

http://www.therpmstore.com/product_info.ph...products_id=111

 

Crossbow you are a freaking wealth of knowledge

 

If you have data, please share it. As you saw from the 6tech thread, coolant temps actually rose when the weather stripping was removed.

Remember that just because something is on a race car, doesn't mean it'll work on a street car. Completely different situations. Most copying of race car setups turns into race inspired cosmetic enhancements more then anything else...which is why you'll find sites of people doing things that don't have any actual results.

ie: I did this on my other car and it helped alot!!!

Do they have coolant temp data comparing before and after? What were the ambient temps on those days? Did they just gauge the difference from a stock coolant gauge (which is a dummy gauge with a 60-80F deadzone in almost every new car), or did they have a scanner or datalogger which pulled coolant and IAT temps directly from the car sensors? How was this data controlled? Was there a set driving cycle that was repeated? Did the car cool off the same amount between runs? What was the asphalt temperature?
(The asphalt temp is actually incredibly important, and most people completely forget about it)

There are alot of mods that actually reduce the effectiveness of stock systems, but people do them anyway cause other people did them before and said it worked...even though they don't have any quantitative data backing their claims up.

Aerodynamics and airflow are very complicated systems. Car's spend a considerable amount of time in wind tunnels trying to maximize both internal flow and minimize external drag. It doesn't take much to screw this formula straight to hell.

 

Well to take this to more help and consider the question a few posts ago>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, using Wrap on the water lines at and around the engine will improve the ability to keep the temps down. Less heat soak.
On the CAT, a blanket can be wrapped and safety wired on the top side to create the thermal barrier. And on the exhaust header, a blanket can be attached to the existing cover bolts and this would also help redirect heat which is rising into the IC and the rear of the engine compartment.
As I have looked and found out, our cap is already up from the 16# to 18#. So the next step would be to find out what the system is capable of handling. If it is setup for 23# MAX, then stepping it to 20# cap would increase the boiling point temp and in return, decrease the running temp.
So, we have 2 viable items:
Redline water wetter
Heat shield Wrap.

 

could this stuff help? - Purple Ice.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/prpice.html

Purple Ice® is a high performance, synthetic, radiator coolant additive for both gasoline and diesel engines.

Reduces Coolant Temperatures

Extensive testing confirms Purple Ice™ reduces coolant temperatures better than comparable products while providing extra corrosion protection. For example, the average operating temperature of a 350 c.i.d. V8 engine (equipped with 160° thermostat) when dyno-tested with different coolants are:

A. Standard mix of water and glycol (antifreeze) - 228° F

B. 50 / 50 water / glycol mix with Purple Ice™ added - 222° F

C. Straight water (no corrosion protection) - 220° F

D. Water with Purple Ice™ added 200°

 

how difficult is it to install thermal tape around the headers and exhaust downpipe? they say it helps with engine bay temp and with hotter exhaust gasses to provide better flow because of less dense gasses traveling through. they also suggest wrapping the turbo, but i wouldnt see how that would help on an intercooled system.

 

Anytime you keep heat in the exhaust system...it's good.
Anytime you keep heat OUT OF the intake system...it's good.

Even a few degrees can make all the difference between getting detonation or making good power.

I still say you need tons of data before you start randomly fidgeting with stuff...even a laser thermo would help greatly.

 

could this stuff help? - Purple Ice.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/prpice.html

Purple Ice® is a high performance, synthetic, radiator coolant additive for both gasoline and diesel engines.

Reduces Coolant Temperatures

Extensive testing confirms Purple Ice™ reduces coolant temperatures better than comparable products while providing extra corrosion protection. For example, the average operating temperature of a 350 c.i.d. V8 engine (equipped with 160° thermostat) when dyno-tested with different coolants are:

A. Standard mix of water and glycol (antifreeze) - 228° F

B. 50 / 50 water / glycol mix with Purple Ice™ added - 222° F

C. Straight water (no corrosion protection) - 220° F

D. Water with Purple Ice™ added 200°
[/b]

Very interesting topic going on.
My comment on the Purple Ice is 84FordMan made a post about Cooling System Mods, and that came to mind when it was brought up. I know this is the Mazdaspeed forum, and his was for the 3.0 v6, but thought it might help. Don't think any qualitative answers came out of whether it was better because of it or not, but I might have to read the last couple of posts to make sure.

Crossbow, love reading your posts. Is it possible to get C.E. credits for reading and understanding the information you share?

 

Very interesting topic going on.
My comment on the Purple Ice is 84FordMan made a post about Cooling System Mods, and that came to mind when it was brought up. I know this is the Mazdaspeed forum, and his was for the 3.0 v6, but thought it might help. Don't think any qualitative answers came out of whether it was better because of it or not, but I might have to read the last couple of posts to make sure.

Crossbow, love reading your posts. Is it possible to get C.E. credits for reading and understanding the information you share?
[/b]

:kissass:

jk, but yes, crossbow is very knowledgeable.

looks like the exhaust manifold already has a heat shield.

http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?...67b601c7a62f43e

 

Anytime you keep heat in the exhaust system...it's good.
Anytime you keep heat OUT OF the intake system...it's good.

Even a few degrees can make all the difference between getting detonation or making good power.

I still say you need tons of data before you start randomly fidgeting with stuff...even a laser thermo would help greatly.
[/b]

I have some free time and access to data logging equipment. What kind of data do you want? IAT and ECT for some baseline numbers?