hey thanks for deleting those extra threads, whoever did, lol.................not sure how that happened.

 

The CP-E Mafci system gets a majority of its power gain from modifying the A/F curve. So yes, you gain roughly 20 whp on a safe tune. You could probably gain more if you took a bit more risk, but the whole CP-E Mafci system is already there setup and ready to go, and it's tunable, so you can lean it out more if you want.

Here's a tip though. Add a bit more fuel around the torque peak. Car seems to like it.

 

i figured that cause when i was tuning my escort. i started off making 178hp 195tq @ 8psi on a 10.0-10.3AFR

i tune up to an 12.1AFR with no deto........dyno'd at 203hp, 240tq on the same 8psi..........


so yea i know tha power is there.


Crossbow would u agree that a 13.5 AFR+/- one or 2 points..........is an ideal ratio? i know it vary per motor, but whats ur thoughts on that?

 

I've never seen my AFR drop down to 10.0-10.5 when mine was getting tuned. Below is a pic of when I went to the dyno to get my Standback 2.0 tuned in January.
[attachment=34997ynoDay12608edit.jpg]
The blue line was the standard MAFci tune. The red and green lines are the final tune, just back to back runs. This was a conservative tune change over the MAFci, adding fuel where you can see the power dip in the low/mid range and adding about 2-3.5 degrees of advance timing from mid to top end.

This dyno I was also experiencing a rev limiter glitch (since at the time we were still testing the standback) which has been fixed since then. That rev limiter glitch was causing the limiter to kick in anywhere from 5800RPMs to 6200 RPMs, preventing a solid run from being completed all the way to redline and from finishing tweaking the top end. We ended up tuning the AFR to be around 12.8-13.0. As you can see from even the MAFci run, it took forever for the car to drop from a stoich range to ideal power AFR. Again the tune helped alleviate this.

I was running 93 octane at the time and feel confident we can add more timing, especially after some things I discovered when datalogging at the track in March. My tune has a peak advancement of 3.5 degrees. At no time during any of my runs did I see it pass an advancement of 2.5-3 degrees. Why, you may ask? Well, the way timing advancement on the Standback is set to is on TPS voltage. Our throttle body runs through a 5v range, supposedly 5v being wide open. Granted that doesn't mean that throttle opening percent is directly tied to voltage in a linear fashion.

Well, during all my dragstrip runs I never saw the TPS on my DashHawk exceed around 78% and my Standback datalogs never saw the TPS voltage exceed the low 4v range (maybe ~4.3v tops). Well, my 3.5 degrees of advancement was set for the higher volt range of the throttle and since TPS voltage never got there then it only advanced as much as was mapped for that particular voltage. This also hints at, like the Speed3 and Speed6 guys, that our throttle body never opens up to full throttle (even when the pedal is to the floor). Knowing this, we should probably account for that when getting the car tuned until a fix is available to give us true WOT.

I should go to the strip again for more datalogging as well as to the dyno but I think I F'd up the headers (per one of the CP-E's guys suggestion). Some people think it may be the engine, but I am leaning more towards the headers. I get a rattle sound up front near the front bank exhaust ports at low RPM and it seems to go away at higher RPM (or it may just be the rattle is going so fast it isn't noticiable). The rattling can't be heard inside the car. One of the CP-E guys said it sounded just like one of his cars and thinks I messed up the catalytic converter that is built into the header. He thinks that since I did so many runs at the strip back to back without enough cooling down time in between (I did 6 runs in 2-2.5 hours) that I got the cats so hot that I melted/broke the mounts/mounting points that the cat attaches to in the header. So he says now the cat is bouncing around since it isn't broken up, causing that rattling. I still debating should I take it to the dealer and have it confirmed and replaced, should I just bash out the cat with a pipe, or should I wait until I rebuild my other engine and use the CP-E headers (probably going to swap my oil pan and possibly the front sway bar to make the '03-'05 CP-E headers work)? Decisions, decisions.

I just hope its the cat. With exception to my local driving mileage going down a little(probably due to the cat partially restricting the exhaust under low RPMs), the car runs fine. Oil levels are fine, no smell and no discoloration, no funny idling, car still pulls. I did the screwdriver/stethoscope method all over the engine and its quiet in the heads (no valve tapping heard), the injectors sound fine, bottom end of the engine and the oil crankcase sound smooth and quiet. But the front bank headers sound loud (especially near the exhaust ports). The rear banks are too hard to get to see if the sound is the same back there. But from doing a walk around the car and engine compartment, the sound seems localized to the front part of the engine/exhaust and not so much towards the back. I can also confirm this to an extent since I would assume if the rear bank/headers were doing the same thing I would definitely hear it in the cabin, which at the moment I can barely even hear the front bank in the cabin (only when the window is rolled down).

When you first start the car you don't hear it. But after a few minutes you begin to hear the noise, and it will come and go from time to time. But the sound is there most of the time. Hmmm....

Oops....sorry for the thread jack here.

Paul

 

that sound your talking bout, does it sound like a metallic rattle.......does it sound like a "zing"?

i get some sort of rattle at idle in neutral........as soon as push the clutch it goes away


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


also, anyone know what the commanded AFR for our cars are from the factory forWOT and part throttle? i curious to know why in the hell our cars trip lean codes when they are running rich

 

I thought it was a bit metallic at first, but others classification of metallic don't match mine. I don't hear a zing, ting, or ping. If your version of metallic is some form of resonance when it rattles (like how valves tap or symbol-like), then no it doesn't make that kind of noise.

Someone referenced the noise similar to maybe a marble or two bouncing about, yet (in my opinion) in sort of rhythm to the RPMs (maybe due to the exhaust pulses coming from the engine causing the cat to rattle/bounce around in tune).

My father (who's quite experienced with cars and motorcycles) listened to the noise and thought it sounded just like his Sebring did and also feels it may be the cat.

Also, being I'm an ATX, I don't have the pleasure of pushing in the clutch to repeat your scenario. I can put it in D, N, or P. All sound about the same, with exception to the noise changing slightly due to RPMs changing from higher to lower (and vice versa).

Paul

P.S.
Now that I think about it, I do get a bit of a zing noise when under light throttle and low RPMs when accelerating. It's usually only brief, around the 1300-1800 RPM range. I only seem to notice it when the car is still warming up and I am accelerating slowly from a stop and cruising at a low speed, say around a parking lot. I don't hear it with the windows up, only when they are down. I also don't seem to hear it under heavy acceleration or higher cruising speeds (aka also higher RPMs). I think that noise I am hearing is a vibration of some sort, maybe the shielding on the headers?

 

I thought it was a bit metallic at first, but others classification of metallic don't match mine. I don't hear a zing, ting, or ping. If your version of metallic is some form of resonance when it rattles (like how valves tap or symbol-like), then no it doesn't make that kind of noise.

Someone referenced the noise similar to maybe a marble or two bouncing about, yet (in my opinion) in sort of rhythm to the RPMs (maybe due to the exhaust pulses coming from the engine causing the cat to rattle/bounce around in tune).

My father (who's quite experienced with cars and motorcycles) listened to the noise and thought it sounded just like his Sebring did and also feels it may be the cat.

Also, being I'm an ATX, I don't have the pleasure of pushing in the clutch to repeat your scenario. I can put it in D, N, or P. All sound about the same, with exception to the noise changing slightly due to RPMs changing from higher to lower (and vice versa).

Paul

P.S.
Now that I think about it, I do get a bit of a zing noise when under light throttle and low RPMs when accelerating. It's usually only brief, around the 1300-1800 RPM range. I only seem to notice it when the car is still warming up and I am accelerating slowly from a stop and cruising at a low speed, say around a parking lot. I don't hear it with the windows up, only when they are down. I also don't seem to hear it under heavy acceleration or higher cruising speeds (aka also higher RPMs). I think that noise I am hearing is a vibration of some sort, maybe the shielding on the headers?[/b]

yea that's why I asked about the zing....

one of the spot welds on your heat sheild probably popped...

not hurting the car...but very common...and annoying.

get in there and check every heat shiel from the cats back to the resonator...

shake them...look at them...and etc.

I had the same thing happen on my escort....and when I did my headers on the 6...I also noticed one shield was compltely loose(all spot welds were popped) and 2 others had a couple popped welds.

check that and let me know what u find

 

I think 12.5-13.0 would be a better range to shoot for. Right around where VM's is tuned.
I tend to go for tunes that you could run at the track, the entire day, and not ever have an issue. Always make sure if you go to a tuner to tell them you road race the car...even if you don't, you'll still get a 100% safe tune most of the time. You can always make more power by leaning it out a bit more (up to a point), but I'd rather have 100% failsafe power, then a few extra ponies on a dyno.

Please keep in mind that my statement about A/F can not be applied to every vehicle. It is merely a general range. I probably wouldn't tune the Speed3/speed6 with that A/F, probably shoot for the low 12's, high 11's.

 

I think 12.5-13.0 would be a better range to shoot for. Right around where VM's is tuned.
I tend to go for tunes that you could run at the track, the entire day, and not ever have an issue. Always make sure if you go to a tuner to tell them you road race the car...even if you don't, you'll still get a 100% safe tune most of the time. You can always make more power by leaning it out a bit more (up to a point), but I'd rather have 100% failsafe power, then a few extra ponies on a dyno.

Please keep in mind that my statement about A/F can not be applied to every vehicle. It is merely a general range. I probably wouldn't tune the Speed3/speed6 with that A/F, probably shoot for the low 12's, high 11's.[/b]

agreed. especially given the fact of how hot our 3.0L runs anyway. we'll see what i come up with when sniper releases the tuner.........


i cant wait

 

for simple a/f tuning, i'd think the tunable mafci would be good enough. with headers and an intake, it should be more than enough to complete the job.

 

Mazda6sMTX Here:

I have a wideband installed in my car as well.

I have never seen the AFR drop below 12, I'm running the CPE headers, OB TB, and Steeda spacer. Now if it does go below 12 I haven't seen it yet, or I missed it.

 

I will post up my A/F ratios here pretty quickly as all of my parts will be installed in the next couple of days.I will dyno the car next week and take a flash drive with me.

 

for simple a/f tuning, i'd think the tunable mafci would be good enough. with headers and an intake, it should be more than enough to complete the job.[/b]

i have nitrous and a supercharger in the plans for my 6, amongst other things. so a tuneabl mafci wont cut it.

Mazda6sMTX Here:

I have a wideband installed in my car as well.

I have never seen the AFR drop below 12, I'm running the CPE headers, OB TB, and Steeda spacer. Now if it does go below 12 I haven't seen it yet, or I missed it.[/b]

really..........are you talking at part throttle or WOT?

under WOT my car sustains a low 10 AFR repetitiously. i have the Injen CAI, Optimized TB, MSDS Header, and a few other things.

I will post up my A/F ratios here pretty quickly as all of my parts will be installed in the next couple of days.I will dyno the car next week and take a flash drive with me.[/b]

definatly........did u get your pullies? what exactly u putting in for this Dyno? if you dont mind me asking

 

definatly........did u get your pullies? what exactly u putting in for this Dyno? if you dont mind me asking[/b]

For the power adder mods:
Pullies will be here in the next couple days,and they will be installed.My CPE headers are going on as well.So i will go with everything on my car except for the Fluidampr and the MSD Stacker 8.I will go back for another dyno when those get here if the Sniper unit is still a ways off,if not I will re-dyno with the above items and Sniper.

Current configuration for my car:

CPE Mafci(tuneable)
Bored/Optimized TB
Steeda Spacer
Magnaflow Catback
EGR mod
Cooling fan mod
Exedy flywheel
NGK Iridium plugs
TB coolant bypass

???I know I am forgetting somethings???

 

For the power adder mods:
Pullies will be here in the next couple days,and they will be installed.My CPE headers are going on as well.So i will go with everything on my car except for the Fluidampr and the MSD Stacker 8.I will go back for another dyno when those get here if the Sniper unit is still a ways off,if not I will re-dyno with the above items and Sniper.

Current configuration for my car:

CPE Mafci(tuneable)
Bored/Optimized TB
Steeda Spacer
Magnaflow Catback
EGR mod
Cooling fan mod
Exedy flywheel
NGK Iridium plugs
TB coolant bypass

???I know I am forgetting somethings???[/b]

o ok Dave, thats whats up. im waiting on the pullies and fluidampr myself. i cant wait to see what u dyno. you'll probably be in before me........a good friend of mine is getting a Dynamax (the one that hooks up directly to the hubs) in anouther month or so.......o im going to be doin all my dyno'ing at his spot. his shop is around the corner from my house, so thats gonna be a good look.

i'm thinking we'd probably dyno around the same numbers +/-5hp or so since u went with CPE..........butit's going to b a fun summer none the less, lol!

keep me posted on the dyno session bro

 

o ok Dave, thats whats up. im waiting on the pullies and fluidampr myself. i cant wait to see what u dyno. you'll probably be in before me........a good friend of mine is getting a Dynamax (the one that hooks up directly to the hubs) in anouther month or so.......o im going to be doin all my dyno'ing at his spot. his shop is around the corner from my house, so thats gonna be a good look.

i'm thinking we'd probably dyno around the same numbers +/-5hp or so since u went with CPE..........butit's going to b a fun summer none the less, lol!

keep me posted on the dyno session bro[/b]

No problem,I will post in the dyno section and upload my flash drive file so people can check it out.

 

have nitrous and a supercharger in the plans for my 6, amongst other things. so a tuneabl mafci wont cut it.[/b]

Beware the nos in this car. Almost every single person who has sprayed (a decent amount) has blown an engine. To do it right, you'd really need a port injection system setup.

 

Beware the nos in this car. Almost every single person who has sprayed (a decent amount) has blown an engine. To do it right, you'd really need a port injection system setup.[/b]

direct nozzle port is the only way to go....I've had my eyes on one on the

nitrous direct website.

and also interested in Nano nitrous that a member has contact with.

the ones who blew their motor were running the spray from th IM...no good...the other shot like 150 shot or something .....another was a guniea pig for a venom kit which ended tragically....

rottenwillow has been spraying for over a year 25-50 shots on a similar setup that I have in mind. and she is untuned...

so the car can take the spray if done properly

 

At part throttle my car is usually between 13.X to 15.X. It doesn't stay at any particular value. It just cycles up and down between those.

Again it may be something else but that's what I have seen. I don't tend to look at it all the time.

 

I went for a little boot, today and paided as much attention to the AFR as I could. As low as I got was 11.1.

 

so the car can take the spray if done properly[/b]

I agree, I'm just making sure you knew that you can't just spray and play...gotta get the right type of kit on first .

 

I agree, I'm just making sure you knew that you can't just spray and play...gotta get the right type of kit on first .[/b]

of course bro......im crazy, but i wont blow my motor because of Bottle feeding thru the IM, lol! Direct Poert is the only way id do any nitrous on any car i drive