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mazda 6 hybrid options

  • add more low end torque, not much mpg improvement

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  • add at least 15% more mpg than 4 cyl, not much performance improvement

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  • must add both to consider buying hybrid

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Discussion Starter #1
Apparently, Ford is pretty committed to hybrid technology and is trying to expand the number of hybrids it makes.

Nancy Gioia, Ford's director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrid-vehicle programs, is quoted as answering this question:
Can you lay out a road map to 2010, and how Ford will ramp up to 250,000 hybrids a year globally?

We have the Escape. The Mariner has joined. The (Mazda) Tribute is coming next year. Then we have the Milan, the Fusion, the Edge, the (Lincoln) MKX, Five Hundred and Montego. Those are the ones we've announced. We will have the capacity and capability to produce at least 250,000. We are also looking at meeting growing global needs in Europe and Asia, where CO2 legislation will drive the need for hybrids as well.

So if they make a hybrid fusion, i would think a hybrid 6 would be pretty easy to do given what the two models share.

And to those who are pretty familiar with hybrid tech, what effect on handling would hybrid tech have on the car given the extra weight from batteries, etc? I've read the accord hybrid is faster than the v-6 b/c of more torque at lower speeds, but have not heard negatives on handling.
 

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The battery pack in a sedan generally is against the rear bulkhead, reducing trunk space and eliminating the ability of a folding seat. This is a critical flaw.

Overall, I consider hybrids to be feel good symbolism that does not add value to the carbuying experience. I would rather see a line of efficient and performance turbodiesels and E85 FFV engines that can provide energy with renewable resources (netting CO2 emissions) and maintaining a normal driving experience.
 

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FUCK HYBRIDS.

Hybrids are the spawn of Satan. They are not a solution to the oil crisis, but a problem.

This is the solution:


Audi A8 Twin-Turbo V8 Diesel. 400bhp.

45mpg. 800 Miles per tank.

Can a hybrid do that?

Another solution is to follow Lotus' model and use 4-cyl diesel engines. The cars will perform better, weigh less, and get much better gas mileage without compromising safety. The technology is there, it is the companies that are too stuck in their ways because they want to appease to the crowd that believes more is better. More horsepower, more weight, bigger cars.
 

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In order to get better gas mileage, it doesn't make sense to ADD weight to a car by adding an electric motor/generator and batteries.

I'm with everyone else on this... Hybrids aren't the solution. Lighter designs with turbo-diesel power should be the way to go.
 

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Hybrids are no better at conserving fossil fuels than regular gas engines. How do you think they manufacture the batteries that go into gas/electric vehicles? In coal burning plants of course. And what do you do with the old dead batteries years and years from now... well you throw them in land fills and destroy the land that way. Sure they use less gasoline, but that does not mean they are not harmful to the environment.

I agree with everybody else and say go with lighter more efficient vehicles (why did I buy a 6s then?)
 

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I'm willing to bet that if you took a Toyota Prius, ripped out the electric motor and all the batteries and retuned the engine. Perhaps free flowing exhaust and intake you would net near 45mpg hwy and 30+ in the city. Given optimal driving conditions. Its a 3cyl after all right?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
personally, i don't really care what technology they use...if it's able to perform better in both categories, and the expense, especially in the short term, are comparable, i'm all for it. for whatever reason, diesels are very rare in this country (maybe emissions related?) except for vw and big trucks.

after seeing the mpg that our fellow 6ers in europe are getting in their diesles, i am a bit envious. although their 0-60 times are similar to the 4 cyl auto, i'd imagine low end torque would make driving in the city more fun. but i understand that they pay about the same price for their diesles as we pay for our v-6's (prob not a fair comparison...they pay more for everything except health care over there). but i do have to wonder, what would a turbo diesel that could perform at least as well as our v-6's cost? if it's more than a hybrid, forget about it.

so i geuss IF mazda could make a 6 that gets 4 banger mileage or better with MS6 performance at a near v-6 price? yeah, ok, that's a lot of BIG if's... but personally, i think these are the criteria that I would begin considering a hybrid.

but to get MS6 performance, there would need to be major advances in battery tech. lighter and smaller, yet holding more juice. otherwise i'd have to agree with diva...not having fold down seats would be a non-starter for me. and ford (or others) would have to be producing a lot more of these hybrids to get the economies of scale they'd need to be able to produce these at decent prices. the current 20% premium for hybrids now just does not make sense on any level.
 

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Scooters, make the USA culture more friendly to scooters like Europe. I got 74 mpg on my 400cc scooter that can go freeway speed no problem.

Free parking for scooters, special lanes, allow lane splitting. The masses will follow.
 

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personally, i don't really care what technology they use...if it's able to perform better in both categories, and the expense, especially in the short term, are comparable, i'm all for it. for whatever reason, diesels are very rare in this country (maybe emissions related?) except for vw and big trucks.

after seeing the mpg that our fellow 6ers in europe are getting in their diesles, i am a bit envious. although their 0-60 times are similar to the 4 cyl auto, i'd imagine low end torque would make driving in the city more fun. but i understand that they pay about the same price for their diesles as we pay for our v-6's (prob not a fair comparison...they pay more for everything except health care over there). but i do have to wonder, what would a turbo diesel that could perform at least as well as our v-6's cost? if it's more than a hybrid, forget about it.

so i geuss IF mazda could make a 6 that gets 4 banger mileage or better with MS6 performance at a near v-6 price? yeah, ok, that's a lot of BIG if's... but personally, i think these are the criteria that I would begin considering a hybrid.

but to get MS6 performance, there would need to be major advances in battery tech. lighter and smaller, yet holding more juice. otherwise i'd have to agree with diva...not having fold down seats would be a non-starter for me. and ford (or others) would have to be producing a lot more of these hybrids to get the economies of scale they'd need to be able to produce these at decent prices. the current 20% premium for hybrids now just does not make sense on any level.
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Why would it cost more? The Lotus Elise costs as much as the Chevy Corvette and performs just as well, but the Lotus gets the same gas mileage as the 6i!

Do the math: You get the performance of a V8 monster with the gas mileage of a 4-cyl car.
 

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I'm with you on being anti-hybrid. I would love to know what could be done to sway this country to diesel fuel. Americans, for the most part, really seem to be ignorant to the better choices out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Why would it cost more? The Lotus Elise costs as much as the Chevy Corvette and performs just as well, but the Lotus gets the same gas mileage as the 6i!

Do the math: You get the performance of a V8 monster with the gas mileage of a 4-cyl car.
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where did i ever say that building a lighter car would cost more?

I love the lotus and what they have done to make their cars perform so well. but on a family car, i don't think mazda would be wise to cut too many creature comforts. for those who would like to see the 6 go on a diet, what would you take out of the 4 cylinder to make it perform significantly better while still being marketable in the midsize family market? taking out a/c, stereos, back seats, moonroofs, sound deadening material, cruise, electric windows and locks, or airbags would be great from a performance standpoint, but the 6 would no longer be what mazda wants/ needs the 6 to be - a car that a large number of people would want to buy. perhaps there are other ways to make the 6 lighter than the ways I mentioned above and I would be glad to hear how - but mazda needs a car in the midsize family segment, so please make the suggestions you make about weight reduction consistent with this in mind.

Honda had a press release a couple weeks ago that said in a few years, they plan on bringing a diesel engine to the states that has equal emissions as their gas engines. VW, i think, already have some very clean burning diesel engines... diesel cars sell very well in europe and asia but still sell for more in their respective markets than gas powered vehicles. is there something inherent in diesel engines that make them cost more?
 

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I'm with you on being anti-hybrid. I would love to know what could be done to sway this country to diesel fuel. Americans, for the most part, really seem to be ignorant to the better choices out there.
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Unfortunately, Americans suffered too many bad experiences with diesels in the 1980's. Between the Oldsmobile (particularly) 4.3/5.7 litre diesels, the 30 second 0-60 Chevette diesel, and the general experience with living with one... particularly in cold climates.

It's going to require a great deal of work and PR to convince people modern diesels are nothing like those.
 

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It's going to require a great deal of work and PR to convince people modern diesels are nothing like those.
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They need to work the 40mpg angle. I think thats what the passat TDI gets. All they need to mention is excellent fuel economy and people will be sold.
 

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They need to work the 40mpg angle. I think thats what the passat TDI gets. All they need to mention is excellent fuel economy and people will be sold.
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The previous diesels also attained excellent fuel economy. People know about that. The PR issue is that diesels are also thought to be fussy, unreliable, noisy, smelly, and painfully slow.
 

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The previous diesels also attained excellent fuel economy. People know about that. The PR issue is that diesels are also thought to be fussy, unreliable, noisy, smelly, and painfully slow.
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Yea, and who's fault is that? The car manufacturers. You know why? Because they took an ordinary gasoline engine and upped the compression ratio so that it would work with diesel fuel. Well, when they upped the compression ratio to something like 19:1, they didn't build up the bottom end of the vehicle, and parts were slowly starting to fall off. If they didn't try to save money and be the typical GM, they would have built a real diesel engine from the ground up.
 
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