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Why not to do the throttle body coolant bypass

76368 Views 82 Replies 40 Participants Last post by  jman
I've been lurking around here for a while, so here goes:

This is why it is a bad idea to bypass your throttle body coolant line:

First, we need to make some assumptions. The first set of these assumptions deals with the operating condition of the engine. Let’s assume that we are running the engine at full throttle at 4,000 RPM. We have a 3.0L engine that is efficient and has about an 85% volumetric efficiency. Our effective engine volume is 0.85*3.0L or 2.55L. Since we have a four stroke motor, we are pulling in 2.55L of air 2000 times a minute. Therefore we are ingesting 3.00 cubic feet of air per second, after unit conversions. Our throttle body’s inside diameter is 2.5 inches (D) and its total length is 2 inches (L).

The second set of assumptions deals with the air and coolant flowing through our throttle body. Let’s assume that we are pulling in air from outside the engine bay on a warm day. Our intake air is 80 degrees, Fahrenheit. At 80F and 1 atmosphere, air has the following properties:

Density (p): 0.0735 lbm/ft^3
Thermal conductivity (k): 0.01516 BTU/hr*ft*F
Kinematic Viscosity (v): 16.88*(10^-5) ft^2/s
Specific heat (Cp): 0.24 BTU/lbm*F
Prandtl Number (Pr): 0.708 Unitless

Let us also assume that our coolant is 280F and that our throttle body is not cooled significantly by the incoming air. That is, the surface temperature of the inside of the throttle body is always 280F.

Now we will figure out how much and how fast the air is entering the engine. Through simple calculations, knowing the throttle body dimensions and volumetric flow rate and the density of the air, we can find out the mass flow rate and velocity of the air entering the engine. These values are found to be 794 lbm/hr (m) and 88 ft/s (V).

We now need to know if the flow of the air is turbulent or laminar. This will allow us to determine what appropriate equations to use later. First, we need to find the Reynolds Number (a unitless number that allows one to know if the flow is turbulent or not). This is found by the equation:

Re = V*D/v

We find our Reynolds Number to be 110,000. This is definitely turbulent flow! (Anything over 10,000 is defined as fully turbulent flow)

We need to find our entry length, or the length of tubing needed for the flow to become fully turbulent. This value is defined as Lh = 10*D. This value is found to be 2.08 ft. This is acceptable, since there is, most likely, two feet of piping between the throttle body and the air filter.

Since our entry length is less than our actual piping length, we can use Dittus-Boulter equation to determine the Nusselt Number (Nu):. (Sorry about all of this name dropping)

Nu = 0.023*Re^.8*Pr^.4 = h*D/k

We find our Nusselt Number to be 214. The ‘h’ value above is the average heat transfer coefficient. Now, we can actually find the temperature of the air coming out of our throttle body. Solving for h in the above equation yields h equal to 15.58 BTU/hr*ft^2*F.

By using Newton’s law of cooling, where the rate of heat transfer (Q) is determined to be:

Q=h*(area of heat transfer)*(Surface temperature-Medium Temperature)

By using differential equations, natural logs and some other hocus pocus, we get the following equation:

Texit=Tsurface-(Tsurface-Tinlet)*exp(-h*A/m*Cp)

Finally, by using the above equation, the outlet temperature can be determined to be 81.3 degrees Fahrenheit.

Now, using the SAE J1349 correction factor, you lose ~1% of your total power for each 10 degree increase in inlet air temperature. With this 1.3 degree increase, due to the throttle body coolant, you are losing 0.13% of your power. Or, on a 200hp car, you are losing 0.26hp. By overriding the coolant flowing through your throttle body, you are risking having your throttle body freeze open in cold weather (the whole purpose of running coolant through the throttle body in the first place). Hope this clears up any confusion.
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QUOTE (Sapphire6s @ Aug 25 2008, 10:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1420397
Well, did some searching and came up with the following.

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/tb-dyno.htm

While this isnt on a 6, the general impact should be the same. This dyno shows a HP/TQ gain, which is probably not realistic on our cars. However, there is a very good before, after and during on temperature tests. Initial temp decrease is 20deg, and after heat soak it is a decrease of 2deg. Coolant temp is raised by about 2deg, which appears to suggest that the TB coolant line does provide a slight radiator effect. Overall, I think it proves that this is worthwhile if one is trying to reduce temps, but probably not worth it as a power mod.[/b]
A WS6 is going to get significantly more ambient airflow than our V6. If our TB wasn't 100% surrounded, I'd agree the by-pass might help. But when it gets zero ambient airflow, you'd better believe I want the coolant to help do just that.

Our TB is not at all exposed like on a WS6
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QUOTE (frayed knot @ Feb 10 2004, 12:58 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=216332
mechanical engineers are nerds[/b]
Hate to break it to you, but nerds built your car.
who is considering the TB mod a "performance mod"

last i checked this was a drivability mod to increase time it takes to heat soak parts of the motor. at least thats why i did it.

never looed at it to gain HP, not sure why anyone else would. could it gain power? no

reason being is its essentially a temp comtrol mod so you wont make anymore power than what the motor was already making to begin with. what you will gain is a longer period of the max usuable power since the TB wont get as hot as fast.

that is the purpose of the TB coolant bypass, its not meant to "GAIN" anything, its done to "SUSTAIN" whats already there.




o, and there is no harm in doing it. nuthin is wrong with my car, and ive had it done for two some odd years. and live in NY(cold climate)
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+1 to what TGNY said

I just did this mod and after driving for 45 minutes I popped my hood and put the are side of my wrist onto the TB and it was cold!!!!
Did this really just get brought back to life from someone commenting on a post from 2004? :laugh: :laugh:
QUOTE (rosem32 @ Sep 17 2009, 07:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1601783
Did this really just get brought back to life from someone commenting on a post from 2004? :laugh: :laugh:[/b]


lol
lol and how in the hell did the OP assume the coolant was at 280 degrees!!!!! btw this also prevents the IM from being heat soaked by heat transfer from the TB
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QUOTE (rosem32 @ Sep 17 2009, 06:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1601783
Did this really just get brought back to life from someone commenting on a post from 2004? :laugh: :laugh:[/b]
It has been brought back several times since 2004.....usually about once a year.....But Gatycon is the one that brought it back this time and had nothing to positively add to the conversation.Just being a fucking idiot.
QUOTE (djquik1 @ Sep 18 2009, 06:51 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1601906
It has been brought back several times since 2004.....usually about once a year.....But Gatycon is the one that brought it back this time and had nothing to positively add to the conversation.Just being a fucking idiot.[/b]
:p

Here is a summary of this thread so that it can be closed: Unles you live in Antartica, or places where the temps go below zero on a constant basis for days on end, this mod is 1000003408% ok for you, and you better do it!
Hate to break the summary but I feel that there are too many variables to be throwing numbers at this mod. He made a good effort but to compare without taking variables into consideration just leaves the result wide open just like it was before this thread. As said above by TGNY it is more so for drivability than performance. In some posts it even sways into bias a tad and it is almost like a sarcastically nice argument.

I think we are all forgetting something. Business needs a hug because the value of his mod write-up is being ignored. :cheers:
QUOTE (Rainmens @ Aug 24 2008, 03:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1419866
I didnt notice ANY difference of the TB temp after doing this mod.. then again i am in Phoenix where its 115* every day.[/b]

:yesnod: I 2nd that....except I'm in DFW where it's a few degrees less than 115°. You know, 3 or 4 degrees less. :laugh:

But no difference.

I re-routed it for winter last year for those 33° and raining days in January and never re-did it.

I've had carburetor icing problems before on another car in those conditions. I don't know what a drive by wire fuel injected car does but a Toyota 20R loses power suddenly and the more you open the throttle the worse it gets until it dies. You sit on the side of the road until the heat from the engine melts the ice and you drive off merrily for 5 or 10 minutes. Then it happens again.
QUOTE (Spazdog @ Sep 20 2009, 09:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1602399
:yesnod: I 2nd that....except I'm in DFW where it's a few degrees less than 115°. You know, 3 or 4 degrees less. :laugh:

But no difference.

I re-routed it for winter last year for those 33° and raining days in January and never re-did it.

I've had carburetor icing problems before on another car in those conditions. I don't know what a drive by wire fuel injected car does but a Toyota 20R loses power suddenly and the more you open the throttle the worse it gets until it dies. You sit on the side of the road until the heat from the engine melts the ice and you drive off merrily for 5 or 10 minutes. Then it happens again.[/b]
IDK how you can't. Before the TB mod I always had to let my engine bay cool down before I could even work on my TB. Since the TB mod, and can put my wrist on the TB after driving home from campus.
Instead of all the assumptions about airflow and temps, just measure the damn temp after the TB. There's got to be something that can be stuck onto the side of a part that will measure the temp. Aww hell the ones in PCs under the CPU is just a little diode. If the OP really wanted to figure this out they would get some real numbers instead of assuming every variable. Buy anyway, I think we all agree there's no reason really to not do this.
QUOTE (mmonnin @ Sep 26 2009, 09:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1604168
Instead of all the assumptions about airflow and temps, just measure the damn temp after the TB. There's got to be something that can be stuck onto the side of a part that will measure the temp. Aww hell the ones in PCs under the CPU is just a little diode. If the OP really wanted to figure this out they would get some real numbers instead of assuming every variable. Buy anyway, I think we all agree there's no reason really to not do this.[/b]
Why don't you just stick something in there and measure it? :p

Personally, I'd go to Walgreens and grab a thermometer and just wedge it inbetween the TB an IM...but that's just me.
2
Thread revival

Ford is removing the coolant lines to the TB on the 3.0L.


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Thread revival

Ford is removing the coolant lines to the TB on the 3.0L.


That is VERY intersting!
so if we live somewhere that the TB will never freeze, then what?
so if we live somewhere that the TB will never freeze, then what?

Ugh.....Ford is bypassing it for all climates....what do you think you should do?
This thread has officially wasted part of my life.
The only interesting thing in it is the mechanical engineer part... gonna start school soon.
ummm, just a side note, hehe. >10,000 is turbulent for external flow. For internal flow, you have laminar up to Re of 2300, 2300-4000 is transition, and 4000+ is turbulent. Doesn't change his point though.

Umm, yeah you would do better to measure the temperature of the air at the inlet and outlet of the throttle body to find out how much horsepower you lose by it being on there. You could do this with a thermocouple I suppose. You would probably have to drill holes in your AI and IM - any takers? Didn't think so.

I have another reason to do this mod. There is a 3 way hose connector just below the TB. Hose 'A' in the illust. above connects to this. It is plastic. Over time, plastic becomes more brittle. The other day, I went to remove the AI Hose, barely touched anything, hot coolant sprays...*[email protected] The little nipple for the TB coolant inlet hose has snapped. I couldn't find this connector sold by itself. Mazda parts at the stealership is close. I used a drill and some epoxy resin to temporarily fix the connector. I am going to do the mod though. Glad this didn't happen while I was driving to the airport or something!
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