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Discussion Starter #1
when ford already had heads designed for variable cam timing engineered? It just doesn't seem profitable to re-engineer something thats already in your parts bin. Not to mention they could have avoided the VCT in the first place and just used the cams from the SVT contour. The stock taurus 3.0 with SVT cams makes about 220hp. Seems like they wasted away lots of profit. :(

Does anybody have detailed pictures or diagrams of the Mazda heads, so I can compare them the the Ford & Jag heads.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

Who is to say that Ford would have let Mazda use their parts....?

I dont think Ford would let Mazda do that, as evidenced by Mazda spending their own time and money making their own system. Ford SVT wouldnt let Mercury use the SVT Motor in a special Cougar.....just one other example...

Also, Jaguar and Lincoln have versions of VCT that I am sure they spent their own money on, and didnt share research....why hasnt the Taurus come with VCT and 220+ HP....?

It is odd.....not because Mazda didnt use Ford technology......but because Ford didnt let them... that is what I think....


Nikolas
 

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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

What about the rest of the engine components though? The block, crank, rods, and pistons. They're all shared from Ford design, right?

QUOTE
Originally posted by DuratecPerformance
Also, Jaguar and Lincoln have versions of VCT that I am sure they spent their own money on, and didnt share research....why hasnt the Taurus come with VCT and 220+ HP....?[/b]
Yet the ST220 has VCT. Is it of Lincoln or Jag design, or is it all new Ford of Europe design?
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

We all know Ford makes some WIERD decisions....I think the VCT in the Mazda6 was just one of them....

I thought the ST220 just had 220hp without the use of VCT? It is VERY easy to get 220hp out of the 3.0L Duratec without the use of VCT.....just tune the engine to run on 91 octane and make the intake tract less restrictive...whammo....20 extra ponies...

I think people will be surprised to see the power that will be possible to attain on one of these Mazda6s V6 engines just by adding simple boltons.. At least people not familiar with the Duratec engine that is.....

And you are correct about the lower half of the engine being all Ford parts.... My understanding is that the blocks are still made at the Cleveland plant.. and the heads are made in Japan and shipped over to be mated....


Nikolas
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

QUOTE
Originally posted by DuratecPerformanceWe all know Ford makes some WIERD decisions....I think the VCT in the Mazda6 was just one of them....

I thought the ST220 just had 220hp without the use of VCT?  It is VERY easy to get 220hp out of the 3.0L Duratec without the use of VCT.....just tune the engine to run on 91 octane and make the intake tract less restrictive...whammo....20 extra ponies...

I think people will be surprised to see the power that will be possible to attain on one of these Mazda6s V6 engines just by adding simple boltons.. At least people not familiar with the Duratec engine that is.....  

And you are correct about the lower half of the engine being all Ford parts....  My understanding is that the blocks are still made at the Cleveland plant.. and the heads are made in Japan and shipped over to be mated....[/b]
You're right...the ST220 doesn't have VCT. I just searched for a while and found it doesn't. As you said, I can't wait to see what this 3.0 does with mods. I'm holding off for the hatch, so by time I get it there should be plenty of mods developed.

We're currently putting a 3.0l with SVT heads and cams in my brother's SE and I can't wait to fire it up. I've rode in a low compression 3l contour and it was amazing, I can't wait to see what the high compression and hot cams do for the power.

So carrying on subject, do you know if the 6's VCT is tuned more for power or emissions? Also, do you envision having tuning capability for the VCT in the future?

Nick Johnson
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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

I would assume Mazda prolly went middle of the road with the power/emmissions tuning. I'm not sure if the 6 is a ULEV or not, but if it is, theres room to fudge with the emmissions a little ;) As for future tuning ability, one can only wait and hope I guess.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

I believe that the California cars are all ULEV rated.... The power output on our test Mazda6s Automatic was decent, but I think the VCT could have been more aggressive when it came on at 4000 rpms... the torque curve from 1500-4000 was EXTREMELY FLAT......you could tell that the VCT is working full time down there to keep the power/emissions right where Mazda wanted it.

I have a dyno chart of a 3.0L Escape and a 3.0L Mazda6, with the graphs overlayed....I will get this scanned (maybe tonight) so everyone can see how the VCT changes the power output/smoothness of the engine.....


Nikolas
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

QUOTE
Originally posted by DuratecPerformance


            I believe that the California cars are all ULEV rated....  

Nikolas[/b]
As are all MA, VT, ME, and one other New England state.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

QUOTE
Originally posted by DuratecPerformance I have a dyno chart of a 3.0L Escape and a 3.0L Mazda6, with the graphs overlayed....I will get this scanned (maybe tonight) so everyone can see how the VCT changes the power output/smoothness of the engine.....[/b]

OOH, OOH, OOH! I can't wait to see that!
 

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Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

QUOTE
Originally posted by DuratecPerformance


            Who is to say that Ford would have let Mazda use their parts....?

I dont think Ford would let Mazda do that, as evidenced by Mazda spending their own time and money making their own system.  Ford SVT wouldnt let Mercury use the SVT Motor in a special Cougar.....just one other example...
Nikolas[/b]
Mazda MX-6/Ford Probe, same engine and same trans if I remember correctly. Ford and Mazda have had a parts sharing relationship for some time.

As for Mercury, correct me if I'm wrong, but the two-year run (This year and next year) of the Maruader, uses the SVT Cobra engine (DOHC 4.6L V8); minus the supercharger found on the 03 Cobra.

I've always been a proponent on the idea that the 6s V6 is nothing new, all of it Ford or borrowed parts from other engines or cars. The Mondeo ST220 makes 226 BHP, the Jag that uses the 3.0L also makes 220-ish. Just too much of a coincidence here, especially with supposedly "original" designed heads from Mazda, if they were specially made just for the engine, you would think they would be able to squeeze out just as much as the ST220 if not more.
 

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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

But isn't MX-6 and Probe two cars that where designed together.. like a co-operation. Not just charing some components but rather just differ in design (and qualtiy - to Mazdas advantage).
 

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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

What I seem to gather from talk in previous topics is that Ford holds an interest in Mazda and offered the technology for the block. Can't compare Ford and Mercury because they are the same company. Sounds as though the MX-6 and Probe were the same car on different platforms. Like the 3000GT/Stealth, Talon/Eclipse, etc.
 

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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

If I understand it, the Probe and MX6 featured Mazda engines, both the 4-cylinder/4-cylinder turbo and V6, which were all manufactured in the Osaka, Japan plant.
 

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Reading Topic: Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...

The Probe and the MX-6 were the same platform, both based on the 626 platform. All three cars were build side by side in the very same plant our 6s are built in at AAI. All powertrains in these cars including the Probe were Mazda. The Probe and the MX-6 were sister cars and also shared many other parts. The shapes and sizes of the cars were similar as well. These cars were built in a cooperative effort between Ford and Mazda. However, Ford designed the body for the Probe, and Mazda designed the body for the MX. This is how I got turned on to Mazda and eventually the 6 that I am getting. I have a Mazda mechanic service my 97 Probe GT, because, unfortunately, Ford mechanics didnt know how to work on these engines, but thats a different story. Anyhow, I have driven 2 probes over the last 7 years and the 6 is the first car that comes close to the way the Probe drives. As for the MZI V6 in our 6s, look at it as kind of the same way, Mazda took the basic Ford components of the engine and made it a Mazda engine. They gave it a similar upper end to all of its other previous product and mated it with the VVT. This is why they designed it separate from the other Ford engines you guys are mentioning. If you put a Ford engine in a Mazda body, its not going to have the same personality as if Mazda designed the engine. Not that the Ford engine is a bad thing. I can tell you, from having driven the Probes for so long, personality of that engine is like nothing Ford ever made, because its not a Ford engine. As for the 6, this was done probably to save Mazda some money in launching the 6, which as any of us who know about Mazda know, is a vehicle that they needed and needed to do well and be profitable. Taking the bottom end of the Ford Duratec 3.0 and making a Mazda engine out of it is much cheaper than having to design a new 4cyl and a new V6, and helps the 6 get a jump start on being a pofitable line; and it gave Mazda some freedom to make a V6 with its engineers personalities, the way they wanted it to be. Just my $.02.
 

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Reading Topic: Replying to Topic 'Why did Mazda design new heads on the 3.0...'

Variable Cam Timing
 
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