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Discussion Starter #1
Got a rear clunk yesterday on turns. Found the left mount broken. It's only got about 4K miles, was installed Thanksgiving of last year. It only has street DD use. Seems like an awfully early failure. The brackets probably need gussets.



 

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How did that happen?, im about to get my RSB installed soon...
 

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someone just did a great write up about installing one of these about a month ago and i warned him about those mounts, they look like poop. design wise anyway. so here is the solution alot of the rx8 guys were doing. order two sets of those poop mounts and mount one on top of the other. or use, shit i can't remember, an aftermarket mount from oh yeah, energy suspension, they make super strong mounts that will line up and are thicker and also have a bead roller in them for strength like the stock ones did. llok up energy suspension bushings from jeggs or something, they can hook you up. i think they need to know the distance between the bolts and the diameter of the bar and thats it.
 

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RPM is having Whiteline send a replacement. I'm going to either weld on some gussets or try some other type of mount. I'll keep you posted.
 

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Hmmm...never heard of this happening.
Mine has been on two years, scant a problem.
 

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Yeah, looks like the OP just got a bracket that was likely cracked in the radius when it was bent into shape. The brackets are standard fare sold by every aftermarket company that sells anti-roll bars and are sold by the "gazillions". I've had ONE of these types of brackets break on me over ~25 year period, so the OP is just "lucky". Replace it and don't look back!

Oh, and the install can also put tremendous pressure on the brackets as a too large anti-roll bar as well. If you (or anyone else) breaks these things frequently, then you're doing something "wrong". I've seen the BMW guys put anti-roll bars on so big they would break theses brackets in autocross. The problem is they needed stiffer springs rather than bigger bars. Follow the 7 "P"s and you will always be fine. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
 

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i use the
proper
prior
PREPARATION
prevents
piss
poor
performance

but planning works too.


but with a heavy car and a relatively large bar, and "standard" brackets, there is still alot of stress on this area. in the previously mentioned "DIY" about installing this bar, i tried to point out that Mazda wouldn't bend a "bead" or gusset into the bracket if it didn't need it. actually it's just stamped, but regardless, it's there and the aftermarket one is lacking in design. i understand that these work just fine for 99.9% of cars but look at the deficiencies in the design...

1. thin gauge material for a part that will see increased loads over stock.
2. needed bead or gusset missing from new "upgraded part" when came stock on previously mounted bracket.
3. ovalized "one size fits most" mounting holes for securing to body of car.
4. poorly planned bend on said oval holes creating a weak point in the bracket at a bend where there is less material.

if you notice in the picture where the break is, instead of having a solid tear across the width of the bracket, there are two small tears across the left side of the hole and the right side of the hole. if the hole was designed to be a hole and not an oval it would not have allowed the twisting force associated as it would have been a solid piece instead of acting like two pieces and allowing the twisting force to multiply by treating one side like a fulcrum.


although if you just replace it you will most likely be fine forever, if it happens again it doesn't necessarily mean you installed it wrong. it may mean that there was a slightly better way to align the bracket so it wouldn't have the weak spot as exposed to failure but don't let a poor design failure let you think your an idiot.

if you notice, on universal parts, they have to allow for mounting of alot of different types of vehicles and of course custom steups as well. but energy suspension has been known for a long time to make much higher quality universal products than standard. these mounts Energy Suspension 9.5161 Universal - Greaseable Sway Bar Bushings 1in / 25mm are for a 24mm bar. i don't know that the bolts will line up as i'm not under the car measuring but the oval holes are located away from the lower radius and only on the flat part of the mount. also these are made from a thicker gauge steel than most universal mounts and are the only thing that has stopped the snapping mount problem on many of the RX8 front sway mounts than have been known to fail. when you get the new one just check it out. if it looks like poop it is poop. order these. i wouldn't put an upgraded sway bar under my car without something beefy to hold it in there. and greesable too.
 
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I'm stealing pictures from the DIY from P3charles for expaination. sorry.


stock mount - very strong


aftermarket mount - garbage



as you can see in the aftermarket one that comes with the kit. if you look behind the nut, the oval hole extends beyond the radius of the bend and is a likely tear point.

now look at the stock one. single hole is stronger than an oval. O.K. we can't avoid that one. but look at the double gussets on either side that are bent into the mount increasing rigidity and all the way to the base as well. this is properly designed. the problem is it wont fit the better bar. so the only way to counter that is find the best design for cheap money.

thicker gauge steel and without the oval hole reaching the point of the radius.

i give you.... the solution.


Energy Suspension 9.5160 Universal - Greaseable Sway Bar Bushings 15/16 in / 24mm

and non greasable....

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/prodimages/SwayBarBushingsNonGrease_lg.jpg

these may not be the part numbers your looking for but they probably offer it as they have 3 options for a 24mm bar. for $30 it's a never worry about again part.
 

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i....... i wouldn't put an upgraded sway bar under my car without something beefy to hold it in there.....
Oh well, I suppose I always seem to get the really good crap that doesn't break. My 24mm WL rear bar and mounts are holding up just fine to rough street and autocross use.

Remember the 7 Ps? I did apply my own "special" waterproof grease to prevent wear, binding, squeaks, and fails like the OP has. I also made sure the OEM end links were not in a bind when the suspension was at ride height, along with positioning the mount brackets in mid-travel of the slotted holes, and I added a couple of my own washers under the nuts to spread the load over a larger area. This is what separates the parts-swappers form the technicians.... Yeah, I'm REAL lucky....
 

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didn't say you were lucky. you just did the best job possible with inferior parts. and it shows through 0 failures on your car. and your right, there is a significant difference between parts swappers and technicians. it's obvious which one you are.
 
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didn't say you were lucky. you just did the best job possible with inferior parts. and it shows through 0 failures on your car. and your right, there is a significant difference between parts swappers and technicians. it's obvious which one you are.

Touche'! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i use the
proper
prior
PREPARATION
prevents
piss
poor
performance

but planning works too.


but with a heavy car and a relatively large bar, and "standard" brackets, there is still alot of stress on this area. in the previously mentioned "DIY" about installing this bar, i tried to point out that Mazda wouldn't bend a "bead" or gusset into the bracket if it didn't need it. actually it's just stamped, but regardless, it's there and the aftermarket one is lacking in design. i understand that these work just fine for 99.9% of cars but look at the deficiencies in the design...

1. thin gauge material for a part that will see increased loads over stock.
2. needed bead or gusset missing from new "upgraded part" when came stock on previously mounted bracket.
3. ovalized "one size fits most" mounting holes for securing to body of car.
4. poorly planned bend on said oval holes creating a weak point in the bracket at a bend where there is less material.

if you notice in the picture where the break is, instead of having a solid tear across the width of the bracket, there are two small tears across the left side of the hole and the right side of the hole. if the hole was designed to be a hole and not an oval it would not have allowed the twisting force associated as it would have been a solid piece instead of acting like two pieces and allowing the twisting force to multiply by treating one side like a fulcrum.


although if you just replace it you will most likely be fine forever, if it happens again it doesn't necessarily mean you installed it wrong. it may mean that there was a slightly better way to align the bracket so it wouldn't have the weak spot as exposed to failure but don't let a poor design failure let you think your an idiot.

if you notice, on universal parts, they have to allow for mounting of alot of different types of vehicles and of course custom steups as well. but energy suspension has been known for a long time to make much higher quality universal products than standard. these mounts Energy Suspension 9.5161 Universal - Greaseable Sway Bar Bushings 1in / 25mm are for a 24mm bar. i don't know that the bolts will line up as i'm not under the car measuring but the oval holes are located away from the lower radius and only on the flat part of the mount. also these are made from a thicker gauge steel than most universal mounts and are the only thing that has stopped the snapping mount problem on many of the RX8 front sway mounts than have been known to fail. when you get the new one just check it out. if it looks like poop it is poop. order these. i wouldn't put an upgraded sway bar under my car without something beefy to hold it in there. and greesable too.
My temp fix is an Energy bracket over the WL bushing. Autozone didn't have a 24mm. Two problems occur. The Energy bracket is a little too wide at the mount holes. It fits, but barely and quite hard to bolt it on. It's also a little too wide for the flanges on the bushing. It is holding for now.

The replacement WL brackets showed up just before I left town. I think my solution will be to gusset these. I'll keep you posted. I have two track weekends over the next two weeks ( don't track this car) and likely won't get it done for awhile... especially since Delta has stranded me overnight both Fri and last nights.
 

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what size energy bracket did you end up with? and was the energy bracket better quality, but the wrong size?
 
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