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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to know which steel wheels w/full wheels covers we'll have here... Any pictures?

I know in Canada, we won't have the 16 inches alloy wheels.

I will have 17 inches on it but, for the winter, I think I'll buy 16" tires and the steel wheels w/full wheels covers but they have to be really nice. If they're not, I'll buy the Protege5 16" alloy wheels w/winter tires to put on my 6...
 

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Hey Mazda6Freak,

You telling me that the lug pattern is the same on the 6 as it is on the Protege??

I was thinking exactly the same as you about winter tires. It looks pretty positive that I will pick a 6 up in the middle of winter too and I would like to have a set of winter on top of the 17" OEM.

I was thinking of steel but if it cost almost the same as a set of alloy outside of Mazda then I rather pick up the alloy from aftermarket shop.

Can someone confirm the lug pattern/measurement for the Mazda 6??
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

I don't know what's the Protege name in Europe, but when I bought
16" alloys then the seller explained that all parameters for Mazda6 wheels
are the same with those of last of 626.
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

For the Mazda 6 :

16 inches : 205/60R16
17 inches : 215/50R17

For the Protege5 in Canada :

16 inches : 195/50R16

:( I'm a little desappointed because the Protege5 wheels would of been cool on that 6. I only hope the wheel covers are beautiful for the 6...

... maybe there will be one at the SALON DE L'AUTO DE MONTREAL ... THIS WEEK END!!!!!!!!!!!!

COOOOOOOL!!!! I'll see the 6!!!

They'll have the sedan, hatchback and wagon!!! Mazda Canada told me 5 or 6 different Mazda 6 would be there... hmmm let see.
 

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Hey boys, I was thinking the same thing. The best way to go guys is to go with the "black stell wheels", no cover. To me, that is the best option because other people know that they are only your winter rims. If you put some ugly covers on them, it just looks ridiculous (to me anyways) Plus, it is fairly cheap compared to the stock Protoge5 rims you are talking about...

Most guys here in Toronto do it that way, and I find it look "OK" because you don't have no flashy cover that stands out.

I would go with a 16 inch rim, probably 205/60/16 winter rubber. What do you guys think???
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

This shouldn't be a problem, since nowadays friction is more dominating property of all winter tyres than before... And once you get more area for friction, it shouldn't be a problem... And it is 1 cm we are talking here (from 195 to 205).

Before more narrow tyre was a must for winter, to get more pressure on studs. But now even with studs they also use properties learned from studdless winter tyres... So 1 cm shouldn't be taking away atleast from braking distance...

I certainly took "the risk" and will have 205/55R16 studdless tyres for winter.

The other option is 195/65R15... 16" shouldn't be too much away from comfort either (after all my summer tyres are 17" by default, can't help that - and they will make the ride more hard definately - that would be good for middle European roads but here in Finland 16" would be better for summer also, so rough roads).

Anyways, I will send the pics and tell my experiences from my tyres later after I get the car and have gone through this winter some bits more (lots of snow here and ice, so no trouble of finding test road, when every mile is one).
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

There is something about friction... when you increase the area to distribute the car's weight, the friction goes down...

And that's no good...
 

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Okay, there is two things I would like to get cleared...

1. Steve, you previously said that you have 16" tyres alloys with your winter tyre also? Little misunderstandings somewhere? Maybe I misunderstod this?

2. Then some physics... Friction is not effected by the power pressed on material against other... Friction is a variable nominal for a structure and material... But you are talking about increasing pressure (force) between tyre and road... The pressure increases grib (of the studs especially!); but the rubber part with extra force pressing it to the road won't help it much at all (does help, but not as much as the studs who really need it) - and since the area is increased that increases the overall effect of the friction...

We are talking very marginal stuff here, 1 cm wider tyres increase maybe 4-6 square centimeters of the area by tyre... And the force per square centimeter is decresed by some tens of kgs (can convert those to Newtons easily etc.)... But there is like lots of kiloes there to share and definately enough force pressing the tyres to the ground. So we lose from force but increase the area where the friction is helping the overall grib... And overall we talk ABOUT plus minus 0... Don't wanna go for exact math there, lots of equations and variables to take into account.

Just trying to get the basic point in... Infact 16" winter tyre alloys (thanks to the new rubber compounds) is more or less like standard size for many cars... Talked to many people about this, some do recommend to keep 16" as MAXIMUM alloy size for the winter. Why is that? 17" is just too uncomfy for winter and it makes snow and ice go inside the brake pedals too easy... And maybe something else also. But they all said that you wouldn't be compromising from your grib - and even if there is any loss it is very marginal.

That said, I have to say that 195/65R15 would be still the safest bet... And the maximum if you are gonna use studs (with studs you can get still much better grib on ice than any studdless can give you); but more important is always how you drive NOT the tyres (they can save from many tough spots, but it is better not to drive so you will have many tough spots or at all).
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

QUOTE
Originally posted by javah


            Okay, there is two things I would like to get cleared...

1. Steve, you previously said that you have 16" tyres alloys with your winter tyre also? Little misunderstandings somewhere? Maybe I misunderstod this?[/b]
Yes, I have winter alloys. But actually not 16" as I may have written somewhere, but 15".

QUOTE
2. Then some physics... Friction is not effected by the power pressed on material against other...[/b]
Actually you are wrong. Friction is a function of the force applied to keep the materials stuck together (in this case the tyres and the road) and the force trying to separate them (the force of the moving car when braking). If you increase the car's weight the friction increases. If you reduce the weight, it decreases. If you widen the tyres, the weight per square [area unit] decreases, thus decreasing friction. It may be a small decrease, but it's a decrease.

QUOTE
Friction is a variable nominal for a structure and material... But you are talking about increasing pressure (force) between tyre and road... The pressure increases grib (of the studs especially!); but the rubber part with extra force pressing it to the road won't help it much at all (does help, but not as much as the studs who really need it) - and since the area is increased that increases the overall effect of the friction...[/b]
What you refer to as grip is actually the same thing as friction. Friction is a counterforce at 180 degrees from the movement. There is no such factor as grip in physics. If the studs were so long that they would actually fit into small holes in the road (and they're not); then another physical process called cutting would take place, where the movement force were distributed over the area of the studs, trying to cut them in half. I could show you the formula, but this board doesn't allow for greek symbols...

QUOTE
We are talking very marginal stuff here, 1 cm wider tyres increase maybe 4-6 square centimeters of the area by tyre... And the force per square centimeter is decresed by some tens of kgs (can convert those to Newtons easily etc.)... But there is like lots of kiloes there to share and definately enough force pressing the tyres to the ground. So we lose from force but increase the area where the friction is helping the overall grib... And overall we talk ABOUT plus minus 0... Don't wanna go for exact math there, lots of equations and variables to take into account.[/b]
You're still wrong. No matter how much math you try the area is bigger and the average number of studs per area unit is still the same. So, the weight is distributed over a bigger area, giving lower friction when braking time comes...

QUOTE
Just trying to get the basic point in... Infact 16" winter tyre alloys (thanks to the new rubber compounds) is more or less like standard size for many cars... Talked to many people about this, some do recommend to keep 16" as MAXIMUM alloy size for the winter. Why is that? 17" is just too uncomfy for winter and it makes snow and ice go inside the brake pedals too easy... And maybe something else also. But they all said that you wouldn't be compromising from your grib - and even if there is any loss it is very marginal.[/b]
The reason for not having 17" is mainly so you don't get so much water/snow and stuff into the brakes. That's dangerous. But also: if you come out a day and it's *really* cold, then the small amount of air in such small tyres will almost completely "disappear" leaving you with very low air pressure...
QUOTE
That said, I have to say that 195/65R15 would be still the safest bet... And the maximum if you are gonna use studs (with studs you can get still much better grib on ice than any studdless can give you); but more important is always how you drive NOT the tyres (they can save from many tough spots, but it is better not to drive so you will have many tough spots or at all).[/b]
True. I've driven many winters with summer tyres in my (insane) youth. Nowadays that's illegal, but it wasn't until a few years back.

And I'm still here...:sarc
 

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We might have a problem here because of certain english words I am trying to relate in Finnish. But I tried to clear myself with extra words there.

So friction I was talking about is the constant for a material.
And the friction you talk about seems to be FRICTION FORCE I was talking about. That can be measured easily gravity*force*friction constant (different for every material / sturucture)...
I don't have so good english that I could explain myself without extra sentences, and that unfortuantely increases always the chance for misunderstandings...

So I would say that we both were right in a way... Just the semantics of words like grib what is usually used (I believe?) in everyday language when talking about how well you can stop your car, and it doesn't start to slide etc. That is definately not a physical word, just a spoken word for all hundreds of little things what keeps your car on road...
So grib I was talking there was indeed the same as friction force...

I still prefer that you use the FORCE there, since friction on its own could be understod easily for the constant?

QUOTE
You're still wrong. No matter how much math you try the area is bigger and the average number of studs per area unit is still the same. So, the weight is distributed over a bigger area, giving lower friction when braking time comes...[/b]
I was talking about studdless there, so don't confuse this with studs.
I did say that with studs, you need more narrow tyre, so you can maximise the force (pressure) of studds against the ice. But remember that studdless tyres don't have studds. It workds differently with mixture and structure of tyre which increases the constant of friction in the tyre, this way creating a bigger overall friction force. But there is TWO materials effecting each other. The one from the tyre and the one from the road. And if there is NO friction from the road (basicly at all, when we talk about totally smooth ice); then there is no help from any studdless tyres! No matter what's the size of it. Then you need studds, since they brake the ice with their force and create the friction needed and here the extra force is very important so it can scratch the ice. This means, just like I said, that if you have winter tyres with studds, keep it small (narrow) too wide takes then force away from studds just like I said - somehow you got mixed up there?

So studdless tyres are useless in such conditions - which can happen only in theory... Since ice usually is never so smooth - even the smoothest ice has some friction...

So when you have wider studdless tyres it has better chance to find spots on ice where it can create more friction etc...

I hope this helped to clarify my earlier points?

P.S. About the 17" we had exactly the same opinion. Great that you pointed out also the cold air effect, didn't remember to add that.
 

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Looks like I started quite a discussion there :sarc

Anyway, I agree that the way you drive is much more important than the size of the tires. I don't know enough about the physics of it all to even get into this discussion, but I do know what the difference between 185 and 205 feels like in snow. I guess 185 would be a bit narrow for the '6 (don't know if they would even be available); so 195 will be my choice.

Peter
 

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Replying to Topic 'What are the wheel models'

:sarc

So finally, is there someone that has a picture of the 16" wheel covers for the Canada???
 

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On our registration papers it says the car is only "typed" for 15" and 17" wheels... Does that mean that 16" is illegal on this car? (2.3 Sport)

We have some 15" winter alloys. 5-spoke with a "ditch" in the spokes so they almost (not) looks like 10-spoke :D Better then wheel covers/black metal at least... It says something like ASA ... Not sure... It's "Licenced by BBS" at least!!!! :D
 

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This means you'll have to go and see a technical supervisor and have it checked and then enlisted into your registration papers.
 

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16" should be OK. Going with 205/55R16 tyres.
I saw it equipped like this on some models/countries
 

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QUOTE
Originally posted by adim_v


            16" should be OK. Going with 205/55R16 tyres.  
I saw it equipped like this on some models/countries[/b]
I have this size exactly...

And after first 100 km with my new Mazda6, I am still alive. :p

But right now it is very dry and cold weather, didn't have many icy spots...
But if you find on weather like this, it is very smooth, and would give good testing road. I will try to find some...
 
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