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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
From my understanding, the water/meth injection kits that people use increase the octane of the fuel... is that correct?

If so, how much of an increase are we talking? I know it would be dependent on how much was injected, but I'm guessing there's an upper limit to how much can/should be added. So, if I'm running 93 octane, and I get a water/meth kit, what would that be like increasing the octane to? 94? 95?

I know people do this to combat KR and gain a bit of power, and I was wondering for those who use it, how much of a difference did in make in lowering KR? Did it eliminate it at WOT?

I'm also wondering if it lets you have a more aggressive tune? Were you able to advance timing more to get more power? Also, if you're running a meth kit, as well as an AP, etc... I'm assuming if you were to get it tuned while running water/meth, you have to use the water/meth all the time (with that map anyways). Or do you just get it tuned on 91/93, and run the water/meth on top of that?

FINALLY, how much water/meth is consumed if you use it all the time? I know cost is not an issue, but does the water/meth resevoir last as long as a tank of gas, or are you filling that thing up more frequently? Gauge on the water/meth so you know how much is in there?

Thanks!
 

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It gives a cooler intake charge and reduces knock/detonation which allows you to advance timing similar to running a higher octane. It doesn't actually raise your octane though. It also cleans the head and valves.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It gives a cooler intake charge and reduces knock/detonation which allows you to advance timing similar to running a higher octane. It doesn't actually raise your octane though. It also cleans the head and valves.
Thanks man!

Anyone know how often do you have to fill that thing up? Qwik I know you've got one... get in here and gimme some answers!! lol

I'm also guessing the amount of water/meth you inject is adjustable? How does one determine exactly how much to inject?

thxxx
 

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nozzle size is usually determined by mods. Typical setup has the water start spraying lightly at a low boost lvl and gradually increase with boost. rough average is a bit more than one gallon per tank of gas
 

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I have a brand new kit never installed from DevilsOwn. Let me know if you interested.
 

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From my understanding, the water/meth injection kits that people use increase the octane of the fuel... is that correct?

If so, how much of an increase are we talking? I know it would be dependent on how much was injected, but I'm guessing there's an upper limit to how much can/should be added. So, if I'm running 93 octane, and I get a water/meth kit, what would that be like increasing the octane to? 94? 95?

I know people do this to combat KR and gain a bit of power, and I was wondering for those who use it, how much of a difference did in make in lowering KR? Did it eliminate it at WOT?

I'm also wondering if it lets you have a more aggressive tune? Were you able to advance timing more to get more power? Also, if you're running a meth kit, as well as an AP, etc... I'm assuming if you were to get it tuned while running water/meth, you have to use the water/meth all the time (with that map anyways). Or do you just get it tuned on 91/93, and run the water/meth on top of that?

FINALLY, how much water/meth is consumed if you use it all the time? I know cost is not an issue, but does the water/meth resevoir last as long as a tank of gas, or are you filling that thing up more frequently? Gauge on the water/meth so you know how much is in there?

Thanks!
meth is about 105 octane. i have no idea what that correlates to total octane with reg gas but a big nozzle would do it.

i cant remember the last time i had knock at WOT even after several pulls back to back.

its def used for a more aggressive tune or u could use it for safety/cleaning.

when i had a M05 nozzle on the SST i used about a gallon every 2 weeks. when i went to the M07 on the SST is was like a gallon every week. now that i have a BT im doing like a gallon a month haha. theres plenty of DD power before i even hit boost haha meth is one of the smartest moves anyone can do on this car. the cleaning aspect is the most important.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I have a brand new kit never installed from DevilsOwn. Let me know if you interested.
I'll keep that in mind if it's still fs. I need an upgraded fuel pump first. I was then thinking of a upgraded ic after that. Then when I'm confident with tuning in ATR, I'll cut two maps. One that's is pretty agressive buy safe with little to no KR at WOT, and a more aggressive "fun" map with the water/meth injection.
 

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lol i also have a brand new labonte kit if anyone is interested. its in the FS section. cheap as hell
 

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I have the Devil's Own stage 2 kit. Supposedly it is supposed to be the equivalent to 116 race fuel when it is spraying. Not sure how true that is. It does not spray all the time. There is a controller. One knob controls the start spray and the other controls the full spray. I have mine set to start spraying about 6psi and full at 15psi. The one gallon tank lasts me about 3-4 weeks. But I keep it topped off. If you put it to the floor very frequently for a few days it will use about 1/3 a gallon. I marked it and made measurements on the tank. Seems like every day it dropped about 3/8 of an inch.

You could run a more agressive tune with it. However, what if somehow the pump goes out one day? I'll stick to a tune that runs without meth and use meth as a safety factor. I did'nt put it in for power. I did it for safety. It also drops your afr's by about 1 point. But your ecu will not see this. So it makes the car slower. I did a couple runs. One with the meth off and one with it on. It was a minimal difference. Without it the car felt like it had a little more power but the engine didnt seem as smooth. With it the car seems a little bit sluggish but the engine seems smoother.

The kit came with a D03 and a D05 nozzle. I used the smaller D03 nozzle. Some people told me spraying too much will cause engine trouble. I can't recall the exact measures but with my engine displacement and boost level I am rated at 3.8 gps. Or 4.xx. I cant remember. But I didnt want to spray too much so I used the 3gps nozzle.

Heres a picture of how I mounted mine. Notice I made the mistake of mounting the pump higher than the tank. Realized the pump was gravity fed. The white pcv 90 you see in this pic didnt last long. I had filled up the take with a fresh gallon. I had a duffle bag in the trunk. Apparently it hit up against it and the 90 popped off. Came home to realize the tank was empty and the carpet was wet. Luckily it was in a good spot where it didnt leak into the car. Just drained out the holes on the side in the trunk out to under the bumper. Then the neighbors dog starts coming around me. To realize I had meth leaking all in my driveway. I had to tell that dog to GTFO.

I ended up going on their website and buying the connections to make a 90. I like how my speakers make a high pitched whistle when the pump kicks in. I always can hear when it sprays.

 

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Discussion Starter #10
Qwik, you shouldn't be hearing any high pitched sound from your stereo when your spraying... check your ground. I know you like the sound, but a bad ground isn't good.

I'm thinking of getting one of these REAL soon.... I want the stage 2 labonte kit, but it's like $550! Doesn't anyone know a website that sells either of these kits for a little less? The Devil's own stage 2 is like $400 with the smaller tank. I may get the 2.5 gallon, but I don't know if I want to loose that much trunk space (8x8x13" or so). Help out a broke fool....

Thx
 

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meth is definitely great for boost. i have the Labonte stg. 2 in my car. i didnt use the the tank that came with it. i just used my windshield washer tank(holds about the same amount) and bent some brackets up and mounted the pump right next to the tank so i wouldnt have to run a line all the way from the back of the car.

like the guys said.......running 91-93octane fuel along with Meth is like running close to c16 race fuel. added boost is possible with not deto, more timing and etc.

if you spray and dont tune for it, the car will be doggish. spraying water/meth fattens up the fuel quite a bit, so you'd need to lean it out a bit, while using meth. or run two tunes for one with meth or without.

its so cheap yet so effective, i would recommend getting if u can

devils own and labonte i wanna say are probably the best out there. so either one will suffice.

couple old pics i took when i was installing it.

stock tank tapped:


mounted:


line from stock tank to pump:




also, whatever kit you get, just make sure the pump is a 200psi or better. higher pressure promotes better atomization
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
ptp sells the labonte stg2 kit for around $390
Thanks man, I was coming up short on google. I have PTP's hpfp, and the thing performs awesome. The only thing that sucks is their website from 1985. The pull-down menus/pricing for the different kits isn't working. I'll try IE, and see if that works, but I can't remember the last time I came across a site that wasn't Mozilla compatible. EDIT: Doesn't work with IE either :( Oh, well, at least it's a bit cheaper. Is your kit set up yet? Stage 2 or 3?

meth is definitely great for boost. i have the Labonte stg. 2 in my car. i didnt use the the tank that came with it. i just used my windshield washer tank(holds about the same amount) and bent some brackets up and mounted the pump right next to the tank so i wouldnt have to run a line all the way from the back of the car.

like the guys said.......running 91-93octane fuel along with Meth is like running close to c16 race fuel. added boost is possible with not deto, more timing and etc.

if you spray and dont tune for it, the car will be doggish. spraying water/meth fattens up the fuel quite a bit, so you'd need to lean it out a bit, while using meth. or run two tunes for one with meth or without.

its so cheap yet so effective, i would recommend getting if u can

devils own and labonte i wanna say are probably the best out there. so either one will suffice.

also, whatever kit you get, just make sure the pump is a 200psi or better. higher pressure promotes better atomization
Thanks for the info & pics NY. What are you running for meth juice? Are you buying it pre-mixed? Qwik was telling me the shipping costs as much as the juice, which is what I figured. I thought some people just ran a 30% meth/70% water mix that SOME washer fluids have OTS. I don't feel like dealing with ordering jugs of meth online if I can avoid it.
 

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Get the standback, the profuel controller to control your meth and run the biggest nozzle you have.

The standback has a map switch to store an additional map.

I have map 1 tuned for dry @ 21lbs and made 322/333 @ 11.5AFR
I have map 2 tuned for meth @ 24lbs and made 343/356 @ 12.5AFR

I only use the meth map for hotter days and run the dry map on cold days.

Using the standback w/ the profuel is the way to go. It gives you the option to run a safe dry map. IDK how the AP works w/ meth though.

The standard is a 51/49 mix. Its easy to mix if you have access to meth but I buy from Devils Own because you just pour and go.

The questions regarding the tuning part have been answered above.
 

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If your looking for somewhere to buy Meth try going to VP racing fuel, specialty lubricants, performance chemicals you can find a local seller going through your local distributor. If you buy it this way remember to get M1 they have different ratings but that is the one you want. Also if you mix it use distilled water that way you know all the additives have been removed. Also if you go this route remember to mix it as soon as you get it home as 100% meth is very flammable and the flames aren't as readily visible. When mixing the more meth you use the higher your octane will be but using more water in the mix will help with the cooling more. If I'm remembering correctly stoich for meth is like 14.XX so you might want to adjust your AFR accordingly.
 

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It gives a cooler intake charge and reduces knock/detonation which allows you to advance timing similar to running a higher octane. It doesn't actually raise your octane though. It also cleans the head and valves.
Those of you that indicate that water/meth injection is providing cleaning has anyone actually had things apart to verify or are you just asserting based on lack of power issues?
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Just common knowledge...
lol. I've heard mixed things about this. MOST people say it does clean, etc.. and some are skeptical. I called my good friend Rick the other day to ask him about it, and nozzle placement, etc.. His DD is that 99' Vette with 860whp on pump gas, lol. His been building monsters since we were 16, and sold his high perfomance shop last year to go back to school. Regarding meth he said, "that's what people say, but I can't confirm it personally, because I've never broken down an engine from a car that was running meth to look and see." Now, he's not a machinist, but he sure does know what he's doing. He wasn't saying it doesn't, just saying that he can't confirm it. Dude's also got a roomful of trophies from drag racing in NH, and I'm sure he's had this conversation with a lot of people built to the tits. It probably does clean....
 

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Those of you that indicate that water/meth injection is providing cleaning has anyone actually had things apart to verify or are you just asserting based on lack of power issues?
lol. I've heard mixed things about this. MOST people say it does clean, etc.. and some are skeptical. I called my good friend Rick the other day to ask him about it, and nozzle placement, etc.. His DD is that 99' Vette with 860whp on pump gas, lol. His been building monsters since we were 16, and sold his high perfomance shop last year to go back to school. Regarding meth he said, "that's what people say, but I can't confirm it personally, because I've never broken down an engine from a car that was running meth to look and see." Now, he's not a machinist, but he sure does know what he's doing. He wasn't saying it doesn't, just saying that he can't confirm it. Dude's also got a roomful of trophies from drag racing in NH, and I'm sure he's had this conversation with a lot of people built to the tits. It probably does clean....
Just common knowledge...





honestly to me the easiest way to think about it is.........

VISUALIZE THIS:

1. steam cleaning
2. brake cleaner (or some type of cleaning agent)
3. pressure washer

with meth injection you get:

1. the water evaporating into steam almost instantly
2. the meth (alcohol, whats doe alcohol do when u wipe a alcohol filled rag on dirty parts)
3. cylinder pressures at combustion act as a pressure washer forcing the mix against everything in the cylinder from valve, to pistons to cylinder walls


basically a side effect of running meth injection is equivelent to using a HIGH pressure washer to clean things(inside of the engine) with a mix of alcohol and water with heat(helps break up stuff)



it does clean no doubt about that. hopefully the above explaination helped understand why that is so.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Not trying to be the devil's advocate here (though I do some campaigning for him)....

1. The amount of water/meth isn't very much compared to the amount of gas going in.
2. Meth = CH30H, alcohol around the house is isoproponal C30H8, though chemically their alcohol group is very similar in reactivity. If it was acetone, I'd buy it more...
3. More gas than anything is coming in at the same pressure.

I see what you're saying, and I'll bet it has some cleaning properties, I just don't know how much. It may be a ton....

I think we should write into Mythbusters with this one. There's gotta be enough gearheads out there debating this that we could jam their email addresses full to the brim... lol
 
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