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Discussion Starter #41
Ok....

You do loose power after peak (obviously) BUT if you shift at peak, all you are doing is bogging the next gear. Non scientific aproach: Say you shift at peak HP RPM (~6300), say your next gear starts at 3900, with less torque multiplyer because of the ratio, and it is out of the powerband... Now you shift at 7000, your next gear slots in at 4500, you do loose a little by running it over the powerband, but not as much as shifting it too soon and bogging it in the next gear. The car is much more into the powerband.

Basically you loose more shifting on peak power then letting it extend slightly over it. The gear ratios are all the cause of this.

There is mathamatics involved that will explain it easily, but I'm being lazy. There is a writup that stretch or crossbow did on this very subject. I can find it and post it later. That particular writeup said that the peak torque of the 6 should extend beond redline at the shift from 1st to 2ond gear. Very interesting.

PS those shift points RPMs were made up, but relitively close.
 

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best way to do this is to try doing this yourself.. on a not so busy day... go on a highway on ramp... try doing your shifts two different ways.. u WILL notice the power surge difference from shifting at 6.3K and 7K

-Ed
 

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:sarc: "You shift at peak you're bogging the next gear" You talk about being blown away by a comment. That did it.

I think it's safe to say a Mazda 6 S or I was never intended to ever be a race car. I'll stand on the staement that. If you run your engine beyond where your engine is making power, That's RED LINE. Yoiu're gaining no advantage in performance. But who really knows how accurate the gizmo showing RPM's is? So perhaps the RPM issue really isn't an issue..

I think we're getting beyond the understanding of most folks posting on this board. Rev your engine to what ever RPM you want. If you shift at or around RED LINE you won't bog your engine. Maximum torque is 5,000 on the V6. Maximum torque is the turning power of an engine. My guess is when you shift at red line the rpm drops to something above 4,000 in the next gear. Thats not a bog? When you drive out of the water box with a race car, tires spinning at a high rate high rpm. As the tires dry and continue to spin. The tires will at some pont grip the track. The rpm will drop because the tires have now stopped spinning. that might be a bog. :D
 

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I've logged about 20+ 1/4 mile runs in my 6 and know easily the quickest way to get down the track is to rev to 7K and shift quickly (if you don't shift before the rev limiter, you'll lost time bouncing off the rev limiter). I lose easily 2 tenths of a second if I shift at 6500 in both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.

All theory aside, those real world results are evidence enough for me.

But I understand the reasoning behind torque. Regardless of what Mazda says, my torque peak is at 5K RPM. (My dyno is here: http://dmarcio.ne.client2.attbi.com/adam/p...2_Dynoscan.jpg) That "red line" means nothing about racing. Its not a shift point. From a factory stand point, its a safety net.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Originally posted by buzzard1@Aug 24 2004, 09:57 AM
:sarc: "You shift at peak you're bogging the next gear" You talk about being blown away by a comment. That did it.
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Buddy if you have never drag raced your 6, please keep your mouth shut. There is a lag in the responce time of the ECU and TB, it is worse at the lower the RPM. You need to read what Stretch has posted, as well as GreenNuggs. Do not continue to argue pointlessly.
 

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Hello I think I am the buddy you're talking about. Officially it's Buzzard.

I hope you can follow this post, please listen. I know you're a nice guy. You'll find I am also.

For the record, I sell the cars you guys are discussing. I don't believe over 50% of what I read here, but it's fun. I'll make my point this way. I've never raced a Mazda........................ But, I still think I have a little knowledge of drag racing. NHRA felt I was qualified to drive a car quicker than 9.99. After my car was inspected I needed to pass a driving test to receive an official license to drive a race car faster than 9.99. But none of this has anything to do with Mazdas. How to shift or drive them. I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt. You're RIGHT - Buzzard aka Rick King is wrong................

I am going to call B/S on the individual that thinks I need to keep my mouth shut though. I think your posted ET for your car is B/S. I need to see the 14.9 et to believe it. Experience tells me that's too quick for a 3.0 - 220 h.p. street tired Mazda 6. I don't care how you shift or the color of your car.

Please listen. I know where Hamilton Ohio is. You should know where EDGEWATER is.. It will cost you 15.00 to bring your YELLOW Mazda 6 to EDGEWATER, for Test and Tune. I would make the same offer for Tri-State. Except they run Saturday. I work Saturday and it's hotter during the day. My experience says your Mazda 6 will run closer to mid 15's on street tires than 14's.I hope I am 150% wrong. If I am I'll use you as a reference when someone asks me how fast Mazda 6's are. I'll also pay the 15.00 it cost you to enter your car.

I don't want to argue about shifting or how fast your car is on this board. I respect the board, moderators, and everyone who posts. I think I have a right to post here, just like everyone else. I made comments, I didn't call anyone stupid or tell them to shut their mouth. I think you told me to shut up. Shut me up with facts not comments. Prove me wrong I'll shake your hand. I'll pay your entry fee and we'll move on. I've been wrong before I've even RED LIGHTED.

Reply to [email protected] We'll set up the arrangements. Prove to me you have a 14 second Mazda 6. It's your call -
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Originally posted by buzzard1@Aug 24 2004, 07:23 PM
.....I need to see the 14.9 et to believe it. Experience tells me that's too quick for a 3.0 - 220 h.p. street tired Mazda 6. I don't care how you shift or the color of your car....
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Geez did you ask the right question... (1st and 2ond best times)



And with just an INJEN intake... (1st and 2ond best times as well)



I'm actually going to Tri-state with my buddy this weekend. If you want to see for yourself, be there between 5pm and 9pm (summer hours). I'm not making this crap up, I had my mildly modded non SVT Contour to a 15.012 (have slip for that as well) and that started at 170HP stock.
 

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Plus weight and other factors come into play. Hell, I couldn't pull less than a 15.8 when I was bone stock. But I'm a shitty driver. I managed the 14.9 with an intake and exhaust.

But this has nothing to do with driving qualifications of either of you. It has to do with a comment made about a specific shift point. Hell, if I can remember, tonight I will see what RPM shifting from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 you get to when first revving to 6500 then 7000, i.e. the drop that may or may not qualifiy as a "bog." I mean, isn't that the argument at hand? But I can tell you from experience, you will not get the best times shifting at 6500.
 

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:love: gotta love a et ticket. How come the little # at the top showing either your car number or run number for the day or evening is different?

So, what you're saying is you car runs these et's all the time? Hell, I might even pay to put you into bracket racing. But yo need to improve on your reactions. I'll stand on my original statement. As polite as possible I think your posting B/S. Misleading the owners of all Mazda 6's. A one time et. is worthless unless you know how to run that et again and again and again. My offer still stands. I'll also offer you one more track. It's Kil Kare. They run test and tune Thursday. It has the best traction of any track in the area. Including Tri-State, Edgewatger, and National Trail. Ask any racer.. I know this because I've spent several decades on these tracks.

Like I said I need to see it. I'll pay to see it happen. I could post et tickets also. A real drag racer is only as good as the run he or she is about to make. You also RED LIGHTED on one your runs. What do you want to see? A high 3 second 1/8 mile from a rail? A low 7 second 190 mph run from a door car? Perhaps you've even heard about a Green 4 cylinder automatic Cavalier on street tires that ran low 14's and high 13's on the very tracks you've race on? I was never impressed with SVT Contours, sorry!

Help me out man I want to brag about you. Might even try and include you in a magazine article Mazda Sport is doing on my store. Mazda Fuel also has a magazine thats sent to dealers. Don't be shy about wanting to prove you're right and I made a mistake. If I am wrong I'll be man enough to post it..

p.s. remember it's [email protected] - I would really rather go watch a high school football game. But my offer to you still stands! :nana:
 

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This guy has got to be the biggest fucking idiot ever -- at least the most stubborn one.

There's at least a dozen people who've run near-stock (meaning Intake/Exhaust combos at best) into the high 14s (meaning 14.7+), on tracks all over the nation. How the fuck can someone say it's not possible to run a stock one into the same range? Or are you going to tell me that a CAI gives almost a full second off your time?

Hell, I was running 9.8s consistently at the local 1/8th the first time I ever went to the track and after only driving a stick about 2 weeks, and that was bone stock. My first (and worst) worst run ever, (and it was BAD with slip, hop, TCS, the works) was a 10.3 -- that's a solid 15.5 in the 1/4.

I don't think you could make the Mazda6s run slower than a 15.5, let alone that be the best you can do.
 

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Originally posted by Sigma@Aug 25 2004, 10:48 AM
I don't think you could make the Mazda6s run slower than a 15.5, let alone that be the best you can do.
Unless you are me! :tear:
 

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Has anyone ever posted a dyno chart on a 3.0? Wouldn't that sort of close the door? The only logic I have about this issue is. Everything has limits and capcities. I know manufactureres build safe gueards into specifications. At some point every car has it's spots where it runs the best. Your car comes out of the hole the best with 28# of air in both tires @ 2,200 rpm. That's not to say all cars are the same. All tracks are different. All lanes are different. Why do you think tghe fastest car always get lane choice?

I'll give you a couple of more hints. Get your head into all races. Remove the junk in your car. Have no more than 1/4 tank of fuel. Run your drivers seat up towards the front of the car. On a front wheel drive car.

p.s. - I'll pay to see any 14 second Mazda 6 in South West Ohio
 

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:D Thanks SIGMA for identifying me for being #1 in severfal important areas. You're 100% correct.

Before the internet everyone read and believed all the articles written about the performance of new high performance cars. Funny part was perhaps 1% of the owners of these cars could duplicate the performance figures in the article.

Today we have the internet. People can shop for cars anywhere. People can post anything. Few people know the posters name. Everything written becomes the truth. Nothing but the truth and by god anyone that can't understand that is an ass.

I'll wear the ass hat. RX-8's don't run 14's out of the box. 6's don't either. I'll pay to see it happen. Thats real BLACK and WHITE. No smoke no mirros. :swearin: Life continues for all. I wish you well!
 

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I posted a dyno chart of my 3.0 at the top of the thread! And I've already told you where this "car has it's spots where it runs the best. " You just aren't listening.

Again, this has nothing to do with your qualifications. We are willing to listen to arguments if they are reasonable. Instead, you shrug off our evidence and play like you know better than us. You just said every car is different yada yada. Well you are right, this car runs well at a certain procedure. So don't come on here and give advice to others OR attempt to debunk advice based on something you have no experience of. This IS the internet and its an information resource and we are willing to gather and evaluate that information. When its wrong, we call it out as being so and that should be the end of it. Regardless of the anonymity of the site, I feel like I know some of these guys on this board even though I've never met them and I know who to trust and I can't f'n believe I have to explain all this to a fucking sales pedaling scumbag, for fucks sake. This is the same guy that said he would kick the next customer that didn't buy from him to the curb.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Here you are, you said you wanted 14's... these are all the runs I made on that day - the Injen intake was the only mod. The ones that were 15.1's were with the TCS accidentally left on... I did not concentrate on R/T, I was still learning how to launch the car (witch I still have not completely gotten to the 2.2xx 60' yet...)

I would enjoy getting in free at the track...
 

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That's Tri-State I see the #'s. I am very impressed.

Don't pick a 90 degree day - but you can expect .100 to .200 better performance at Kil Kare.

If I insulted you with the reaction statement. Guess this is another example of not knowing when you shut my mouth.

Langs is three miles from the track. You go right past it. I'll show you a Mazda Revolution Store too. If you're lucky you might get involved in Speed Training
 

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:love: The most fun I get reading about the performqnce figures is you guys will defend a ONE TIME RUN till death. :nana:

Shift points, running past RED LINE to achieve that best performance only applies to ONE RUN on one track out of one lane. Can we do a little averaging here? :drive:

The NHRA and IHRA qualify each time they go to a different track. Many of you stand on a single et. That's what really bothers me about posting a great day at the track or a single great performance. Shut the hell up you scumbag car salesperson :nono:

Somewhere someplace I hope to one day see the high 14 low 15 second performance in person that's posted on these pages. Don't take my questioning so personal: swearin: WE all have a long way to go before we're in John Forces class.. :nana:

We still have FWD cars. We still have injected 3.0 engines with HYDRAULIC lifters. Our cars are in the 3,200 to 3,500 weight range. Those are the facts. Odd that a few GREAT AMERICANS run so much better than the rest. But everyone needs a hero :huh:

The guy from Middletown ran last Saturday. I worked, but my guess is 15.2 and 3's were his best at Tri-State. I wish he would post and set the record straight for the month of August. :D
 
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