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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Originally posted by mmarfan


Originally posted by CivicTurboSi


wouldnt it be better to power brake the auto?
Doh! Forgot to add that one. Yes you can power brake it, it will achieve good results as well.
In a ery unscientific comparison on my 99 Protege with AT, I found that rather than power braking at 3K, if I take my foot off the brake pedal, hit the gas pedal half way through so that engine revs to 3K, the launch feels better.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Burnout box is a waist of gas. Drive AROUND the water! (unless you're a showoff )
For non slicks this is true. Slicks you will want to do a burn out to warm up the tires.

Hold the gas and brake in at the same time, then when it's green let the brake go.
Word of warning guys. Power braking, while not as bad for the car as neutural drop, creates a lot of strain on the car. I wouldn't advise you doing this very often, especially on a daily driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Originally posted by kali9934


Burnout box is a waist of gas. Drive AROUND the water! (unless you're a showoff )
For non slicks this is true. Slicks you will want to do a burn out to warm up the tires.

Hold the gas and brake in at the same time, then when it's green let the brake go.
Word of warning guys. Power braking, while not as bad for the car as neutural drop, creates a lot of strain on the car. I wouldn't advise you doing this very often, especially on a daily driver.
Indeed, correct on both accounts. BUT if you're going to do it on slicks, get a limited slip differential, because you're very very likely to eather destroy your tranny or rip your axles right out.
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: Another tip on drag racing...

I'll rip your axles right out with my teeth! I'm crazy!


I need to find a track around here, and some nitrous. ;)
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Originally posted by kali9934

Word of warning guys.  Power braking, while not as bad for the car as neutural drop, creates a lot of strain on the car.  I wouldn't advise you doing this very often, especially on a daily driver.
Like he said... power braking in an auto will burn up your torque converter.. do it enough and your car won't be moving... i guess it's analogous to burning up your clutch..

speaking of which...

here's some more 1/4 mile drag tips from the resident bimmerforums moderator with 18 years of experience.. this guy is amazing though...you'd have to read about all his experiences.. winning races he shouldn't have based on HP numbers.. but he does because he knows how to launch.. he touches on everything.. weight.. tire pressure.. etc.. etc.. .. btw.. the car he's talking about is gone.. he got a new car.. his old car was a blown 3.0 liter Z3 putting out 321.2 rwhp @ 6500; 290.3 lb-ft rwtq @ 4400.. oh.. and it's not mentioned in the thread.. but he managed 11.71 at 115.6 mph in that car.. for reference as to how well this guy launches.... the next closest Z3 1/4 mile time to him was a blown Mroadster at 420+ rwhp with a 1/4 mi time of 12.56 @ 127.08 mph ... he had about 100 rwhp less yet he's almost a full second faster in the 1/4 mi..


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt...ead.php?t=47538
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: Another tip on drag racing...

oh, btw.. forgot to mention.. in case someone misses this and does try to use the tips.. bmw's are rear wheel drive cars.. not front wheel drive.. so when he talks about tire pressures and such.. apply the tip to the opposite wheel... (front or back)
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

mmarfan,

You asked how I did in the other thread, but that one was about ATX issues so I figured better to respond elsewhere.

Yes, I improved, but not by much. I managed a 15.5 @ 91.9. I'm stock except the Draxas exhaust which as we know doesn't exactly provide that much power do to the cats/precats still being in place.

These are my 5 runs:
Time - Trap - 60ft
15.8 - 88.9 - 2.5X
15.8 - 89.0 - 2.4X
15.7 - 89.8 - 2.4X
15.5 - 91.9 - 2.50
15.6 - 91.5 - 2.34

If I look at the 1000ft difference between my 15.6 and my 15.5, I noticed I was a whole 10th of a second better on the 15.5, which was a 13.2 1000ft.

Here's what I noticed about your car, you got a 12.5 on that 1000ft. THATs what I need to do! A whole 7 tenths? How can I get that?

I did manage a 2.3 60ft time as my final run. But I only ended up getting a 15.6 that run. What I'm thinking is happening on those 2.3 and 2.4 60fts, is that whatever I'm doing to get out of the box, might be making my first 60ft quicker, however, I think at the end of that 60ft, my RPMS are TOO low coming out of the box, so the shift to 2nd takes a bit longer. I just can't believe I can't get better. There was only 1 run where I missed a shift. At least I'm getting more consistent in that I'm not fucking up or spinning the tires through 1st. But I still can't get that perfect run!

My final question to you would be once you get that 2.2/2.3 60ft out of the box, how are high are your RPMs at that point. I've been trying to rev to 3K RPM and then feather the clutch out for a smooth but quick launch. I think I need to try a bit hard, but let the clutch do more of the work to curb wheel spin out of the box.
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: Another tip on drag racing...

I think the key to those 1000' times is how well you use that clutch. You might be feather it just a bit too much losing a lot of power.

I'm not expert at drag racing at all, but I would think if you're feathering too much not only will you not be getting that full power to the wheels, but you'll redline sooner (if you still don't have the clutch fully engaged) and then get into 2nd too soon, losing every precious millisecond of 1st gear time.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Nice work on the 2.34 60' GreenNuggs!


My thoughts on the launch RPMs being low, I did notice that when I went to the track, it does bog slightly, and I think that is from the trottle lag. I guess the real trick is to be ahead of that laggy throttle, (mabee floor it 2 tenths or so before you would normally) and shift that thing as insanely quick as possible. Did you let it cool off between runs? That helps slightly.
I tried to vary my RPMs off the line on the start (between 2000 and 3000, I took it up to 3500 once... bad) but came up with the same boggy results, or wheel hop. I think my best 60' was only a 2.34 as well.
The 60' trap is about the top of first gear. I believe you usually hit it at 35 to 38mph. I usually run everything to the 7000 redline, because of the step up in gearing, so you make more power running it over peak instead of shifting at 6500. (plus you already know to leave it in 3ird and bump it off the redline at the finish)
Getting it 7 tenths quicker in the 1000... practice practice practice :D I know you can get it! Hey if you want an Injen intake for a pretty good price, PM me; it'll help out your exhaust.
You do want to slip the clutch on the launch (per the writup), but you pretty much want to drop it while shifting.
BTW what's your altitude at the track?
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Does anyone else feel like their engine slams during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts? It feels like its jumping around in there!

I definitely think that I don't get out of the box good and when I do, I do something stupid like shift at 6500. Thats it, just got to get more consistent. Usually the red light at the end of the track comes on, but I just let the car go up to the rev limiter in 3rd anyway just to be sure.

I was racing along side a TL type S all night. Nice guy running it. Its completely stock except springs. He said last year he couldn't beat a 15.006. My 2nd run against him he finally broke into the 14s. He's got the tiptronic. What pissed me off is he was doing consistent 2.3s and yet I did manage to keep nose to nose until I shifted. Because every time I shifted, he didn't have to because of the auto, so he pulled away. :rant

I was going to wait to buy the Injen until I got my scanner to be able to see the CEL progress, but as luck would have, the AUTOINGENUNITY PC CAN scanner will be delivered to my door tomorrow. Whats the deal on the group buy? The Price? Can I pay by Credit Card? Let me know, because its about time I got into the game.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

So, I didn't want to hijack that other top 1/4 mile time thread. But I did have a few things to add on my recent 14 sec run.

Cool down between runs can make a world of difference. My run was after a 30 min cool down, the track temp had dropped from 75 (where I was running consistent 15 flats) to 67. And I even hit the rev limiter in 1st on that 14.9, so I probably could have picked up an extra 10th if I hadn't.

Also, even though you can't really heat up the tires by burning out, I find it is useful to do a quick burn out while pulling up to the line, if not just to rid you tires of debris. I would pull around the burnout box, straighten myself out, then when the give the ok to approach the line, rip it up for a second. I haven't been lower than a 2.3 60 ft since I started doing this AND dropped the tire pressure to 28.

Finally, on my 14.9, I did something a bit different for the launch. Usually, I rev to 3K, then try to let the clutch out swiftly to get going, yet my RPMS would be around 3-4K by the time I catch traction. I managed to get 2.3 60 fts with this method. HOWEVER, on my last run, I let the clutch the same, yet gave a bit more gas. What happened on this run, while mad spin and wheel hop, I still managed a 2.3 60 ft, but I had 6K RPMS by the time I caught traction. This allowed me to be higher in the power range, so that I had to shift quickly into 2nd. (This is why I hit the rev limiter, I wasn't prepared for a shift that early) And I didn't bog, because I had plently of forward momentum.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing

I am totally new to 'running my car at the track'. They have this thing here called "racelegal" which cars can drag 1/8th of a mile. I watched it a few days ago and was very tempted to try it myself....do you guys think the my auto m6 (eibach & cat-back for now) has any chance??

p.s. is "power brake" meaning using the e-brake and revving the car to around 2k then launch? Thanks...
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Reading Topic: Replying to Topic 'Another tip on drag racing...'

Sure, why not, it's all about having fun at the track. I'm not sure how good your auto will do, they usually like the 1/4 better. (V6 auto that is)

Power brake means hit you gas and brake at the same time, then when the light is green, release the brake. You could do it with the e-brake I suppose.
 

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Originally posted by mmarfan@Feb 26 2004, 06:02 PM
For the autos-
PUTTING THE CAR IN "OVERDRIVE" DOESN'T MEAN A HILL OF BEANS. "I ran slower because it was selected in overdrive" is a worthless statement. The car shifts like it's suppose to, at redline or possibly a tad more. You won't reach your overdrive gear. I personally would leave the thing in drive, because the tranny automatically shifts at the correct power band points. If you want to use "manual" mode, go ahead, compair results, they should be very close.
This is untrue. In auto mode, the ATX will shift into 4th gear just before the end of your quarter mile, costing you about 1/10 of a second or more and a greatly reduced final speed. You should be able to finish your quarter mile in 3rd gear without stressing the car or hitting the rev limiter.

Originally posted by mmarfan@Feb 26 2004, 06:02 PM
Launching an auto:
The best results that I've seen from experiance has been just to cram that throttle as fast as you can at the light. You can try (NOT RECOMMENDED) a nutral drop. Set the RPM's at 2K or so, and drop it, flooring it as you drop it.
For an auto you need to look at the 60 foot time, it'll probably be no where near that of a manual. You might have better success with a nutral drop, but don't come crying to me when you drop you tranny, because I say DON'T DO IT! Untill you get mods on an auto, you won't really see a 1/4 mile increase. Unless the temp/ humidity change drastically between times you go to the track.
This is very true. Don't drop-shift your ATX. Trust me, I've done it twice just to see the difference, and it most definately isn't worth the trade off. You are definately killing your tranny and hell if you'll gain any meaningful time from that. The power brake isn't that bad, although I found that it just heated up my brakes like a bastard and again didn't help much. I just plug the gas to the floor and go.

Now, one thing I read somewhere else is that the car launches slower in "manual" mode than in auto mode. Something to do with the ECU being stupid. I've tested this, and solely from "ass-metering" this seems to be true, although not terribly different. So what I typically do is start in auto mode, launch, and then pop over to manual mode almost immediately in time to shift into second gear. You can also try leaving it in auto mode all the way until 3rd gear, and then just pop it over into manual mode prior to the 4th gear shift that will dick up your time. You will probably get the best results for both, since the car shifts 1-2 and 2-3 just about as good as you do.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Originally posted by CTs 6@Aug 12 2004, 07:51 PM
i drag better with tcs on, am i doing something wrong
[snapback]291378[/snapback]​
Yes, you need to practice launching without it (on the track of course). The TCS works well, but boggs the car so bad after it retards the timing, that it takes a while for it to recover. I ran 15.1's when I accadentally left it on (twice!), then ran 14.8 with it off... so if you can lauch it right, it will pay off.
 

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:swearin: I read the first two pages of posts and did notice something that kicked me whan I read it. Drag racing tips - you say to shift a 7000.

Over the years I've strapped a few cars to the dyno. A dyno will show the power curve hp and torque delivered from idle to red line. Mazda says red line is 6300. Mazda says at 6300 the 3.0 is making 220 h.p. Not at the wheels and also under test conditions.

Now if Maxaimum power is 6300; - after than doesn't hp. drop off? So, why are you saying to wind the engine to 7,000? Are you saying you're making more hp beyond 6300? Can I ask you to prove that? I think you're wasting time. Time is et, right? The only time I might try this is if I am near the end of the 1/4 mile in a gear. Then I run the car past red line or beyond red line because I figure I am still making power. More power than if I were to shift to the next gear.

As I've said before. I enjoy discussing cars. This isn't a flame. I am not questioning your manhood. You put some effort into your post - thanks :slap:
 
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