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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know when mazda going to release info on a MPS 3 and RX-8? And whats the hold up on the MPS 6? Damn it MAZDA, stop f##ing playing around.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Sorry about that. I just went mad for a second. I'm ok now.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

But there already is an MPS version of the RX-8. It just hasn't been announced as a possibility for the US. It's a Japanese prototype right now. There have been many more hints at there being a chance for the Euro 6 MPS crossing over. I think we'll get it as a Mazdaspeed 6 by 2005. If we saw it as a 2004 model I would be pleasantly surprised.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

If there is to be a US Mazdaspeed6, this is my guess, for the record.

AWD sedan, will look similar to the MPS version but not quite as large a grill opening. (bumper regs). No 280HP turbo 4, engine will be a 270HP+ 3.5l V6. (US loves big engines).

When? not before 2005. Mazda has a full plate with he launch of the RX-8, new Mazda3, new MX-5 and introduction of the 6 Hatch & Wagon to the US market.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Where are they getting this 3.5L V6 from? I don't see why they wouldn't go with the turbo 2.3. Ford is going to be touting that motor hard core next year when it replaces the Zetec in all 50 states. And it is the rumored mill (in turbo form) for the new SVT Focus. I'll bet we see the 2.3 or 2.0 Duratec HE's in turbo form as the powerplant for the mazdaspeed 6. I would say maybe a supercharged 3.0 V6, but i dont think there is enough hood clearance for the blower, and they wouldnt want to mess up its lines with a bulging hood.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

I think a decision on the MPS M6 will depend in part on how the Lancer EVO and WRX Sti do, as those cars will be in the same price category...if they continue to do well, I could see mazda going ahead with a MPS 6, but I bet they focus the mazda speed effort next on the Miata. The rx-8 is about has hardcore as it gets already, short of a turbo, don't know what else the could do to it to make it more of a sports car...
 

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Replying to Topic 'The Next mazdaspeed Cars'

QUOTE
Originally posted by TbirdJayC


            Where are they getting this 3.5L V6 from?  [/b]
From my reading Ford has a 3.5L in the wings for the MZ6 based Futura and Mercury's version also.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

I don't know why on earth you guys think they'll be playing with different engines given what is already out there on the wires. The 2.3L AWD turbo is already ULEV rated. Why would they scrap that and suddenly go to a new engine? I do not think the 6 is relying on WRX or Lancer sales. I don't think WRX-Lancer-MSP6. I think MPS6-2002 S4. It's just not the same as the MPS6 will be more refined than the Riced up rally cars. On paper it may look like a good comparison with AWD 280HP but the MPS6 is a European inspired performance sedan like the S4 period. Mazda is aiming for S4 territory. No wing. It is doubtful Ford would put a brand new turbo 3.5L if it is going to debut in their '05 Futura. There is already an MPS RX-8 prototype in Japan, pics no specs. So far a Mazdaspeed MX-5 doesn't make sense with the new design coming out. Given the MPS 6 is already going to be produced in Europe for a fact we will probably see it here rebadged as a Mazdaspeed in a very similar spec as in Europe. In Europe they haven't shown us what a production MPS 6 pic so we don't even know what that grill will look like there yet. The US loves big Engines but Mazda doesn't and never has. When they want power they make a turbo version or a small V6 in the 6's case. It is their philosophy to use smaller engines and focus more on other characteristics of the car so that it is all balanced, unlike Nissan or Honda. The 2.3L has been so well received that it is going to be found all over Mazda and Ford's vehicles in the next few years. The Mazda 3 is getting it, the Focus is prolly getting it, new MX-5?(No clue on that one)

So. expect the MSP6 to be pretty damned close to the MPS6 from Europe when it is released sometime this Fall/Winter.
 

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Replying to Topic 'The Next mazdaspeed Cars'

QUOTE
Originally posted by LBJay


            If there is to be a US Mazdaspeed6, this is my guess, for the record.

AWD sedan, will look similar to the MPS version but not quite as large a grill opening. (bumper regs). No 280HP turbo 4, engine will be a 270HP+ 3.5l V6. (US loves big engines).  

When? not before 2005. Mazda has a full plate with he launch of the RX-8, new Mazda3, new MX-5 and introduction of the 6 Hatch & Wagon to the US market.[/b]
Hmm...interesting speculation Jay. Do you know of any whisperings on this, or is this purely based on Ford's development of the new 3.5 liter mill?

Because IMHO Mazda is MUCH more likely to use their own mill (ie MZR 2.3) in their MazdaSpeed cars than to use a modified Ford mill. Given that the 2.3 l turbo MZR is already in development, I can't see them wanting to spend additional development time/money to work on the 3.5l at the moment. I think the MPS 6 is very close to the final product. It had the feeling of a "ready for production" concept car. The interior was very close to production ready, with the possible exception of the smart card ignition system. Honestly if they had to "dumb" down the MPS and give us a 250hp AWD hatch with VC center diff, I wouldn't be too unhappy.

Any MazdaSpeed 6 will have some stiff competition from the rumored upcoming Subaru Legacy turbo. Speculation will have that coming with a detuned version of the WRX STi's 2.5 l turbo H-4 making something in the mid 250s for hp and torque.
 

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Replying to Topic 'The Next mazdaspeed Cars'

QUOTE
Originally posted by kenoka
Hmm...interesting speculation Jay.  [/b]
Yep, pure speculation. But remember I am thinking of a US version Mazdaspeed6, not a world car version.

US Mazda dealer service depts have little to no experience with turbos. MSP's are only sold at certified Mazdaspeed dealers, and to be certified the dealer has to send people to be trained to work on the car. That's a lot of money for a limited production car. With a NA 3.5L the MS6 could be sold/serviced at any Mazda dealer.

Ford/Mazda should already have a majority of the engine development done. (it takes the better part of a year to get it US certified)

With no tubo 4, Mazda avoids the direct comparison to the WRX and Evo. (more in line with the AUDI and BMW)

Just trying to put 2 and 2 together, if I'm lucky sometimes they add up to 4. :D
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Why would Ford give mazda an engine that is in development? They own 30% of mazda, not the whole company. They gave them the duratec 3.0 because it's not exactly "new", and so it saved mazda a lot of money in development. Do you think ford is going to pay all the R&D on a new motor and then let someone else profit from it? The only motor besides the 2.3 i would want, would be the twin turbo 3.0 duratec that Noble uses in its GTO 3. 340/340 Now that would make for a sick ride.

Also, it would take the techs just as long to get acclimated to a new N/A motor as they would to a turbo motor. And arent they allready certified to work on the MSP? If this car is a mazdaspeed it would be sold and serviced at the same place.
 

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Replying to Topic 'The Next mazdaspeed Cars'

QUOTE
Originally posted by TbirdJayC


            Why would Ford give mazda an engine that is in development?[/b]
Give? How about joint developement. Mazda does a ton of R&D for Ford now in small engines and transmissions.

As for the 34%. If I could buy only 34% of a house and get to decide who lives in it, why would I buy the rest? Own/control it's all the same thing. Ford is Mazda, Mazda is Ford.
 

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Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Joint as in Ford pays for it and Mazda gets 50% of the credit, but ok. I still would not bet on a 3.5L V6 coming anytime soon.
 

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Replying to Topic 'The Next mazdaspeed Cars'

QUOTE
Originally posted by LBJay
US Mazda dealer service depts have little to no experience with turbos. MSP's are only sold at certified Mazdaspeed dealers, and to be certified the dealer has to send people to be trained to work on the car. That's a lot of money for a limited production car. With a NA 3.5L the MS6 could be sold/serviced at any Mazda dealer.  

Ford/Mazda should already have a majority of the engine development done. (it takes the better part of a year to get it US certified)

With no tubo 4, Mazda avoids the direct comparison to the WRX and Evo. (more in line with the AUDI and BMW)

Just trying to put 2 and 2 together, if I'm lucky sometimes they add up to 4. :D[/b]
But don't you think it's likely that they'll follow through on the infrastructure they've already demanded be put in place? They're wanting MazdaSpeed to be a premium brand name, as well as an additional profit center for both MNAO and the dealerships. So the exclusivity becomes greater if they keep the branding, service, and selling consistent. I can see a couple of years down the line these MazdaSpeed certified dealerships becoming places where MazdaSpeed aftermarket turbo kits and other expensive and profitable accessories can be installed. They would have the credibility of already servicing MazdaSpeed branded cars. Makes sense doesn't it?
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

I'm sure they are waiting to see how the Mazda 6 sales are in comparison to the other new vehicles this year including the TSX, TL, Maxima, Altima, etc etc. before rushing a model that they think won't sell. They arent going to release it because some of us want it, only because they see a profit from it.

They have to be careful about pricing if it does come out because once you get above $34,000 or so you start getting into that small luxury area and sorry to say it but mazda isnt a name synonomous with luxury cars.
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Very good points Neil. In fact we may be looking at 2004 sales closely as well. I think however, we must look at what Mazda projected versus what is sold instead of how they sell against other cars in the class. Their projections fall in line with a certain profit they expect from the vehicle over a year or several years. As long as they are making what they expect then it doesn't really matter how many they sell(given their projections are made to accurately support the welfare of the company). We've seen many models in different fleets that are sold at a loss to serve the purpose of brand image which supposedly results in an overall profit.

Your pricing comment is also an excellent point as we have not really gotten to the nitty gritty of it here. Price is almost too speculative even when we know what it sells for in Europe. But I'm game for anything on the MPS6. $34000 sounds high to me. The RX-8 is approaching $31000. While I could see someone arguing that the MPS6 has 280HP, it's only because of a turbo. The car still has a 2.3L engine. All-in-all I see many similarities between the RX-8 and the Mazda 6 MPS in terms of features from a Mazda perspective so pricewise I think we'll see the 6 close to that. Also keep in mind the STI and Evolution and the fact that they both landed at or under 30K. They smoke the RX-8 but the RX-8 is looking for 350Z's to race because it has an interior. It has comfort. The experience for STI/EVO is unrefined rally, RX-8/350Z more refined Sports Car, MPS6/S4 refined sports sedan. If Mazda wants to be stupid they can pump the price to mid thirties but then you could get a 300hp Volvo S60R or decent BMW 3 Series. I just don't think the car would sell for so much money. So I totally agree with you on that Neil.
 

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Reading Topic: Reading Topic: The Next mazdaspeed Cars

Pricing is definitely going to be tight. Assuming they have a car with 260hp + (whether that's through Jay's 3.5 liter Ford V6 or the turbo 2.3 liter) they will need to keep the pricing between the $28,000 to $32,000 range to keep out of the range of entry level luxury buyers. Plus I don't think Mazda has enough brand image right now to justify anything too far north of 30 grand. Although this price overlaps directly with the RX-8, again I think you're looking at different buying groups. As an example I'll point out the G35/350Z family. Here you actually have three different cars built on the same platform, all selling for around the same money. I would place the G35 as the benchmark that Mazda has to beat at this pricepoint. They have to come up with a winning combination of amenities, performance, and price. If they can bring the full blown MPS 6 to market for $27-28,000, they'll sell every one they choose to make. If it comes in at $34,000+ then they'll probably end up failing and selling at discount rates.
 
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