Mazda 6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hey guys, as you know i dynoed the car and i got 145 to the wheels, but my a/f ratio was extremely rich 16.90 to be exact, so the people at the dyno told me to get my hands on a Super AFC to help out with the a/f ratio.


so i went ahead and ordered one. my question is do u think it was worth it? and do you think that it will help out? and any gains? i know the people with the v-AFC ( vtec controller ) got like 10 HP out of it. so what do u think?


-n1ghtmare
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
Adjusting your A/F ratios can be a good and bad thing. I understand your goal is to increase the cars perfomance based on fuel tuning. That is just fine but you can only do so much. This is basically what I am doing with the CP-E box. It is tuning the air fuel based on MAF sensors. Timimg will always be an issue because it is not easialy adjusted with what is on the market today. If you want to get thos most from your system go with a standalone like Haltech. You have many more options. I do not have experience with the Super AFC but be sure you have it tuned on a Dyno and by someone with the knowledge to do it correctly. Do not lean it out too much. You will kill the motor.
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
hey guys, as you know i dynoed the car and i got 145 to the wheels, but my a/f ratio was extremely rich 16.90 to be exact, so the people at the dyno told me to get my hands on a Super AFC to help out with the a/f ratio.
so i went ahead and ordered one. my question is do u think it was worth it? and do you think that it will help out? and any gains? i know the people with the v-AFC ( vtec controller ) got like 10 HP out of it. so what do u think?
-n1ghtmare
[/b]
Question, Are you saying your a/f is 16.9 to 1 ? In my meager experiance I've always tried to work towards 13.0 - 13.5 to 1 for optimum performance. 16.9 to 1 to me would be lean. Just asking
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Adjusting your A/F ratios can be a good and bad thing. I understand your goal is to increase the cars perfomance based on fuel tuning. That is just fine but you can only do so much. This is basically what I am doing with the CP-E box. It is tuning the air fuel based on MAF sensors. Timimg will always be an issue because it is not easialy adjusted with what is on the market today. If you want to get thos most from your system go with a standalone like Haltech. You have many more options. I do not have experience with the Super AFC but be sure you have it tuned on a Dyno and by someone with the knowledge to do it correctly. Do not lean it out too much. You will kill the motor.
[/b]


oh yes im going to get it dyno tuned and the reason i went with it was because alot of people i know use it and said that it works wonderfully and i know its not not easily tuned but with the help of a dyno they can do it, but ya do you think id get some performance gains out of it? im pretty sure i would get some gains out of it.

Question, Are you saying your a/f is 16.9 to 1 ? In my meager experiance I've always tried to work towards 13.0 - 13.5 to 1 for optimum performance. 16.9 to 1 to me would be lean. Just asking
[/b]


yes thats what i would like to achieve when i dynoed it the lowest it went to was 14.9 so thats bad according to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
As far as I know, the super afc will not work on the car because it cannot get a clean tach signal...
[/b]

It works but it requires some trickery.
The magician that works at the motor shop I go to can work wonders with anything. When I brought it to the dyno for tuning they were all confused because like you stated, the reading were all funky. I believe you must input it as a "2 cylinder" or something like that in the SAFC instead of a "4cyl." But if you're looking to tune it with using this device, make sure the shop you go to knows what they're doing.

The gains wont be HUGE on whatever they do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It works but it requires some trickery.
The magician that works at the motor shop I go to can work wonders with anything. When I brought it to the dyno for tuning they were all confused because like you stated, the reading were all funky. I believe you must input it as a "2 cylinder" or something like that in the SAFC instead of a "4cyl." But if you're looking to tune it with using this device, make sure the shop you go to knows what they're doing.

The gains wont be HUGE on whatever they do.
[/b]

ahh alber thanks for the input ill be sure to tell them. as far as gains im not expecting 20whp maybe along the lines of 5-7? 10 at the most.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
574 Posts
hey guys, as you know i dynoed the car and i got 145 to the wheels, but my a/f ratio was extremely rich 16.90
[/b]
This is not rich but lean. Last time I checked the recommened air/fuel ratio was 14.7: 1 on a standard day. Any values to the right of 14.7 is leaning the a/f ratio, any values to the left would be making it rich. To get the most horsepower and torque you could run a little rich, but then fuel economy may suffer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
are you sir about that Monsoon? i was told that i was running rich? oh well all i want is to make sure that the A/F is running well and not like crap. because it is, according to the people at the dyno.


-n1ghtmare
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,775 Posts
As close to 13:1 as possible for max power. 14.7:1 for good mix of fuel econ and power

That said, I would find another shop to tune it if the one that you are at told you that you were running rich at almost 17:1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
As close to 13:1 as possible for max power. 14.7:1 for good mix of fuel econ and power

That said, I would find another shop to tune it if the one that you are at told you that you were running rich at almost 17:1
[/b]



so by going lower basically its leaning it out? and yes im taking it to another shop that i was recommended to when i bought the AFC. any more suggestions guys? input?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,392 Posts
No, by going lower you are richening the mixture. 16:1 is dangerously lean. But if the 16:1 is at lower RPM, you might not get any detonation. Its when you climb up in higher RPM that the lean conditions could kill you.

To be sure, it can't be 16:1 all across the board or would be hearing some pinging and losing power and blowing up your engine! It may start at 16:1, then drop below 12. If its below 12, then maybe that is why the dyno operators were telling you it was rich. We should really look at the entire dyno plot.

You really want to start out at stoic (14.7:1) for the first few thousand RPM, then richen it somewhere between 12.5:1 and 13.5:1 the rest of the way. IGNORE shooting for specific power outputs at first. Just get your car to a normal safe tune. IGNORE anyone who says it should be a specific A/F across the entire RPM range, this is just incorrect. What I would do if I were you would be to take one of those CP-E dyno plots, look at the A/F for all the RPM points, and tune to that. That should give you a first tune for the best possible power. After that, if you wanted to you could fine tune with more dyno time.

I frankly don't know if the SuperAFC is for you. The shop you do it HAS to know that the tach signal will need to be tricked. If they don't already know this, then recommending that to you is based off little knowledge of the 6 and I wouldn't trust those recommendations. Its good for most tuner cars out there straight out of the box, but not the 6. There was a guy at 6tech that was rigging up something to get the tach signal correct. Don't remember what his progress was. You are venturing into a realm that few 6 owners have tried because it doesn't work out of the box. You might want to consider a Unichip or SCT Xcal2 (if it ever is proven to work, that remains to be seen.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,757 Posts
Maybe he needs a Super DUPER AFC? Either that or lose the incorrectly sized (in AEM's terms: "improperly engineered") intake pipe which is causing your engine to run lean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
No, by going lower you are richening the mixture. 16:1 is dangerously lean. But if the 16:1 is at lower RPM, you might not get any detonation. Its when you climb up in higher RPM that the lean conditions could kill you.

To be sure, it can't be 16:1 all across the board or would be hearing some pinging and losing power and blowing up your engine! It may start at 16:1, then drop below 12. If its below 12, then maybe that is why the dyno operators were telling you it was rich. We should really look at the entire dyno plot.

You really want to start out at stoic (14.7:1) for the first few thousand RPM, then richen it somewhere between 12.5:1 and 13.5:1 the rest of the way. IGNORE shooting for specific power outputs at first. Just get your car to a normal safe tune. IGNORE anyone who says it should be a specific A/F across the entire RPM range, this is just incorrect. What I would do if I were you would be to take one of those CP-E dyno plots, look at the A/F for all the RPM points, and tune to that. That should give you a first tune for the best possible power. After that, if you wanted to you could fine tune with more dyno time.

I frankly don't know if the SuperAFC is for you. The shop you do it HAS to know that the tach signal will need to be tricked. If they don't already know this, then recommending that to you is based off little knowledge of the 6 and I wouldn't trust those recommendations. Its good for most tuner cars out there straight out of the box, but not the 6. There was a guy at 6tech that was rigging up something to get the tach signal correct. Don't remember what his progress was. You are venturing into a realm that few 6 owners have tried because it doesn't work out of the box. You might want to consider a Unichip or SCT Xcal2 (if it ever is proven to work, that remains to be seen.)
[/b]


ahh i see what your saying Nuggs, im going to take a look at the cp-e dyno charts and base it off that then, and im pretty sure that they must know which tach signal to trick, or atleast i hope so, if not it will surely fail no doubt. im pretty sure i can get it to work well see, i shall pass by the dyno place today and also the shop that is installing it. unfortuntely the shop that is installing it does NOT have a dyno so i have to go to another place that they have recommended me to. well see ill update you guys on this project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
but using safc is like using the cpe customizer??? tell me if im wrong plz
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
About this Discussion
20 Replies
10 Participants
crossbow
Mazda 6 Forums
Mazda6club.com is a forum dedicated to the Mazda6 / Atenza. Come and discuss reliability, performance, modifications, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top