[EJAY11]

Hey, I have a 15' Mazda6 that has a soft steering feeling for the first 5° L or R when steering. The problem started around 35k and got worse after changing the tires. Then it progressively got a little better over the next 30k until I just changed the tires again. The wheel feels like the steering is sloppy but the turning is actually responsive, the car moves but I can’t feel it in the wheel. It's most noticeable on the highway and it produces memory steering. Any point within the center 10°, the wheel direction will hold and the car will follow…so, I will be on the freeway and input a 5° R turn to change lanes, let go of the wheel and car will keep going to the right. Then to I will have to input again to bring the car straight, the car tracks straight if the wheel is pointed straight. I have had the car aligned 3 times, had a professional steering & alignment shop check the struts (they assumed it was the caps binding), tie rods and links. They drove it around with a scan tool to verify the Steering angle sensor was properly operating and centered. The shop thinks its Electronic Power Steering (EPS) related and I tend to agree, so I took it to the dealer and they said because there are no Diagnostic Trouble Codes, it’s not EPS related.

So, I have seen the wandering issue thread from DEC 21’ and that guy replaced his whole rack which would have of included the EPS motor, I believe? What about the torque sensor? Also, does anyone know if the EPS module get replaced with the rack? Can you reprogram the one in your car currently? Does anyone think I’m going down the wrong path thinking it’s module related? To me it feels to me like the EPS is acting like the car is in a parking lot when I’m on the freeway and its providing assist when I don’t need it.

Could it still be something mechanical that the shop missed? Thanks for any help.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I believe you're on the right track. I also suspect that if you changed the rack, you'd still have the prb...

I suspect it's, as you mention, logic module- or torque sensor related... but I am not experienced in this regard. Not sure if any other cpts could create this issue.

Of course just 'cuz Mazda couldn't bring up a code doesn't mean it's not EPS related. They JUST don't know how to repair it!

I hate EPS 😐.

 

[TalonTsi90]

The motor is on the column, not the rack. You never said WHAT tires you changed to.

 

[EJAY11]

Thanks for the response

Do you or anyone know if I bought a used like for like EPS module off EBAY and swapped it out, would I need to do any programming for it to work?

Also, can you see the torque sensor input with a Scan tool?

 

[EJAY11]

The motor is on the column, not the rack. You never said WHAT tires you changed to.

I thought it was the rack, thanks... Well then the motor is definitely in play. I changed from Conti DWS to to Michelin AS4.

 

[TalonTsi90]

Contis are great, MS not so much so thats not surprising. What pressure did you run?

 

[EJAY11]

Contis are great, MS not so much so thats not surprising. What pressure did you run?

35 psi.. I had the same issue with the Contis when they were brand new. The issue got a little better during their life, from 35k-70k...The steering was acting the same, but I just dealt with it after the dealer wouldn't help me (35k miles ago). Now I just put new tires on again and it's bothering me like a lot, but now I have more time and effort available to deal with the issue. The ride of the MS is vey nice so far, although I have not driven in anything wet yet.

The fact that through the life of the tires the feeling of the steering changed makes me think it could be related to the torque sensor? Thoughts?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

...
The fact that through the life of the tires the feeling of the steering changed makes me think it could be related to the torque sensor? Thoughts?

Watching this thread with great interest...

 

[bdc101]

So you turn the wheel slightly and the car follows your steering input, but then you return the steering wheel to center and the car doesn't track straight? Am I understanding that right?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

No, bdc101... I don't believe you have it right.

The OP should answer, but if you again view the OP's opening post it should be clear... with the exception of this attached snip...

I'm pretty sure the OP is saying "... then to prevent the car from continuing to turn right... I will have to..."

 

[bdc101]

I see, so OP, you give the car a slight steering input and it just doesn't return to center?

I don't think I would blame that on the tires.

You are, if I'm understanding correctly, hypothesizing that the EPS is holding your steering in a 5 degrees off-center position after you turn it there. I assume (can't say for sure) that the dealer would have checked this when they drove it around with the scanner attached. I don't think anybody here on the interwebs has the ability to diagnose that as being the problem, though. It's possible that the EPS is malfunctioning, perhaps because it thinks you are still putting a force on the steering wheel, but I don't know of any way to witness the EPS's operation in real time, or the input it thinks you are making on the steering wheel.

One suggestion I do have would be to disable the EPS. If you pull the fuse to the unit and the problem goes away, then you can remove the EPS from the list of possible culprits. If it doesn't, you'll know that it's not the EPS. That being said, I have no idea if this is as simple as pulling a fuse.

I don't know which thread you are referring to above, but posting a link here might help us to provide better insight.

 

[LeMansteve]

Does the problem exist at low speeds as well? i.e., in a parking lot?

 

[EJAY11]

I see, so OP, you give the car a slight steering input and it just doesn't return to center?

don't know of any way to witness the EPS's operation in real time, or the input it thinks you are making on the steering wheel.

One suggestion I do have would be to disable the EPS. If you pull the fuse to the unit and the problem goes away, then you can remove the EPS from the list of possible culprits. If it doesn't, you'll know that it's not the EPS. That being said, I have no idea if this is as simple as pulling a fuse.

I don't know which thread you are referring to above, but posting a link here might help us to provide better insight.

You are correct, the steering wheel does not return to center, it returns to 5° outside of center and it holds the direction of any input within that 10° range. So when I said tracks straight, I meant when the input is 0°.

Pulling the fuse would rule out any possibility of a mechanical issue, I will do some research on this. Does anyone know if this would cause another problem?

I know you can witness the SAS in real time, I'm trying to find out what other components, if any, someone has been able to or knows of being able to view.

thread- Wandering issue

The car has this problem at all speeds.

 

[[email protected]]

I had a '15 Touring that would wander left and right without me changing steering input. Had it aligned 3 times, twice by the dealer and once by an independent shop but it would still wander, it was most noticeable at highway speeds.

The car had 50,000 miles and tires still had about 1/3 thread after 15,000 miles.

I ended up trading it in since it felt unsafe and no one could tell me what the issue was.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I had a '15 Touring that would wander left and right without me changing steering input. Had it aligned 3 times, twice by the dealer and once by an independent shop but it would still wander, it was most noticeable at highway speeds.

The car had 50,000 miles and tires still had about 1/3 thread after 15,000 miles.

I ended up trading it in since it felt unsafe and no one could tell me what the issue was.

We must, collectively, get to a solution. This prb appears to manifest itself rarely with our vehicle population of 3rd Gen 6's, but when it shows, it seems no one is able to get to the solution. EPS, to me, seems like an "experiment", until solutions to these kinds of issues becomes a well-understood course of action.

 

[TalonTsi90]

This is something were not gonna agree on, or hash out over the internet. Mainly cause its over the internet, but also cause we have people who arent "drivers" trying to explain to other people who arent "drivers" whats wrong with their cars over the internet. The people like myself who could accurately describe and/or pinpoint the issue cant drive the cars.
Then, im just gonna flat out disagree cause the EPS in my 3 is effing amazing vs any car ive ever owned or driven. If it werent, i wouldnt be racing the car. Its insanely accurate.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

It's my belief that steering feel, as another item, and I mean, here, the "fine" and subtle on-centre feel that the EPS on my Mazda6 shows is inferior to all of my other cars that have HPS. The EPS on my 6 is a system that is probably towards the upper end of the EPS systems that are out there, for sure, but it makes the car not as relaxing to drive at expressway speeds. Apparently Porsche EPS is very, very good. But even Porsche purists, I'm told, prefer Porsche's with HPS (or without PS).

I can live with the EPS system in my 6. But I don't want to run into a situation like the OP and a few Others have, where behaviour that has been described cannot seem to be diagnosed and repaired.

 

[EJAY11]

I tend to believe that EPS can be amazing, my Wife's Ford Edge feels great and is lots of fun to drive. EPS is also in its infancy and relies on a lot of sensors. Sensors will inherently have uncertainty in their measurement and this probably leads to EPS systems not all behaving exactly like the next one. Especially as the sensors age and their measurements drift, it’s not like they are being calibrated every year. It would be interesting to know what the measurement uncertainty of this sensor is and if it can be calibrated. Mazda CX-5 Service & Repair Manual - Torque Sensor - Linkage, Power It belongs to the cx-5 but, I would bet some money it’s the same as the 6.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I tend to believe that EPS can be amazing, my Wife's Ford Edge feels great and is lots of fun to drive. EPS is also in its infancy and relies on a lot of sensors. Sensors will inherently have uncertainty in their measurement and this probably leads to EPS systems not all behaving exactly like the next one. Especially as the sensors age and their measurements drift, it’s not like they are being calibrated every year. It would be interesting to know what the measurement uncertainty of this sensor is and if it can be calibrated. Mazda CX-5 Service & Repair Manual - Torque Sensor - Linkage, Power It belongs to the cx-5 but, I would bet some money it’s the same as the 6.

That reference is instructive. Thx!

I wonder if, with time, the magnets demagnetize, affecting the performance and accuracy of this component...?

 

[mazda6nc]

Following, having the same issue with my 2016 Mazda6 Touring with 74k. Randomly noticed it about a month or two ago. Doesn't seem to affect my safety at all, I just really notice a difference when I drive someone else's car, especially my friend's 2019 CX-5 Turbo. About 15k miles ago, I started noticing a clanking noise at low and high speeds coming from the front driver's side. I had 3 mechanics look at it and no one can figure out what it is - after looking at some other treads, it might be the front struts. I haven't fixed it as the mechanics quoted me $1500 and weren't even sure that was the issue. After 15k miles, I wonder if this is related? Not sure at all. I've owned it since new and can attest that the car has experienced nothing more than normal/spirited driving.