Mazda 6 Forums banner
Cancel

Snow Water/meth Injection Installed On Speed6!

7245 Views 58 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  ghettospeed, 
D
Well, 2 days ago I got the AEM intake on, easy......quick......and effective!

Today, well.......we did the Snow Performance Water/Meth injection and I am pushing 50/50 meth. WOW! Its unreal! Add 30 or so HP to this car and things begin to get a bit more....well...... interesting. This thing is getting down-right violent!

I am running the pump at the full 150 PSI, activating at 6PSI and full on at 15PSI.

All I can say, is if your in the Pittsburgh area, and your on the fence about doing this mod......come on over some time and we can take a ride! Its like superman just ripped his street clothes off and is now taking to the air! Thru the gears it pulls so hard its nuts. On a hard start with TC off I had it spinning all 4 (But after that four gear shot I smelled clutch burning.....) and it was slamming thru gears at a scary and alarming rate. The 0-80 MPH times are drastically faster. I will try to quantify the change with our G-tech accelerometer once I get time. Its still busy time in the shop, so I will wait until the end of October to get to that.

Crazy. Fun. Exciting. Adrenaline. Muscle. Power. I cant really describe it, you would have feel it!

I took pictures of the install, the bracket I made for the coolant bottle, removing the intercooler and allum intake tube going to the T-body, the MAP line, the pump and bottle positions....everything.

The stock Intercooler is a joke, mounted flat on the engine with no place for air to really go... now it does not matter! When I get the boost going, the water/meth starts flowing!

From wwwSnowPerformance.net

The Boost Cooler® is Snow Performance’s latest generation water/methanol injection system. The primary function of water/methanol injection is to provide “chemical intercooling”.

In gasoline engines, as with any intercooler, this suppresses detonation so more power producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane) as well as adding more oxygen to combustion.

A brief History:
Water injection was evaluated scientifically in the 1930’s by H. Ricardo who demonstrated that one can basically double the power output of an engine using water/methanol. The first widespread use was during WWII on supercharged and turbocharged aircraft. In 1942, the German Luftwaffe increased the horsepower of the Focke-Wulf 190D-9 fighter aircraft from 1776HP to 2240HP using 50/50% water/methanol injection. The allies soon followed by fitting the P51 Mustang and other high performance aircraft with water/methanol injection. Following the war, the turboprop aircraft industry used water/methanol injection and called it the “automatic power reserve system (APR)” for use in hot or high altitude take off. It surfaced again in the 60’s when GM used a system on the OEM turbo Corvair. It was used effectively in Formula 1 before being banned for adding too much power.

The latest competitive use is in World Rally Racing (WRC) where virtually all teams use it in some form and in diesel truck/tractor pulling competition. It is important to note that in the fall of 2004, the long standing world record in the quarter mile for diesels was broken twice (now 7.98 sec) by two different vehicles; both using the Boost Cooler® water/methanol injection system by Snow Performance.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
41 - 59 of 59 Posts
R
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?show...58261&st=15
scroll to the 2nd page, you'll see a dyno with a boost controller @ 17psi all the way to redline, if you're able to retain some boost to redline, you'll see LARGE gains there where the hp drops like it hit a brick wall... 66hp gain there... WHP too...
Reply
Save
Like
D
Wow, I need the boost controller! What is the verdict on the Turbo XS fuel/boost controller? I called and talked to them and it sounds like an easy install, no wire cutting....just use wire taps. I could then control the A/F ratio and boost. They said that there will be an upgrade avail in the future to also control timing....

For the money, this looks to be the best option out today. CP-E is trying to do the system that does timing and A/F....but as of this moment you can not buy it that I am aware of.
Reply
Save
Like
P

max gain occurs at 3375rpm where it goes from 227ft/lbs stock to 255ft/lbs with CAI. a gain of 28ft/lbs TQ. your welcome.
[/b]
Click to expand...

Ok, but last time I checked HP and torque where 2 totally different measurements. I don't see how this proves anything.

Discount sorry about the Hi-Jacking of your thread. I will stop posting on it.
Reply
Save
Like
M
Don't try and compare Diesels with gas vehicles it can't be done.
Since when can you add over 120 WHP with a chip on a gas car?
Here's my X dyno sheet:
Run 2 = Extreme Street - new kick Cayenne's ass mode.
Run 3 = Extreme Race
Run 7 = Stock
Run 8 = Hypertech +50 HP setting
Run 9 = Hypertech +80 HP setting
Run 10 = Hypertech +140 HP setting - previous 14.7 1/4 mile setting
I roll around with the Extreme Street tune.
The thing about the SCT programmers is that sometimes you get some weirdness until the computer relearns everything - that's why the Extreme Race is showing the weird dip.
These are 3rd gear runs (out of 5) as you can select 3 and the tranny will start and stay in that gear.
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
D
Wow, comparing a diesel tuner to a gas tuner is crazy. A diesel does not follow the same set of rules, it is dependant on the injection pressure, pulse width, and pulse timing. Your SCT looks terrible by the way. If that were properly tuned you would have a 6.0 in the area of 410-430 HP with 4" exhaust and an intake. 380 is about 40hp low, unless that is a SCT Strategy Flash tuner. If thats a custom tune, who did it? Any ways, you can not do to a gas car what you can with a diesel when talking about tuners. On a Duramax I can do a 350 HP gain with a tuner, on a 6.0 Ford I can do 160HP. On a gas.....most consider themselves lucky to get 30-40 HP tops from a tuner. The water meth kit is not comparable from gas to diesel. Take your 6.0 and toss a stage 2 or stage 3 snow performance kit on there and your talking about 80-120 HP....you will not see that from these gas powered Mazda engines. So you are dead on....it is not a good comparison for tuners or meth, but no one said you can get the same from tuners or meth on a Mazda as you can on a diesel....???? so what exactly is all that about? Diesel.....add tuner and water meth and you add almost 300 HP on your Ford as well as add 600-650 TQ.....no one here claims this is true of a Mazda! Even if you could add that much power and tq....t he engine would crack in half in the Mazda! We are talking 20-30 on the meth, maybe pushing towards 40-50 with a tune that can lean out the fuel/air and increase timing a bit. The 40-50 is not the meth alone, it is the meth and tuner working together. THis is VERY realistic.

BTW your airaid intake is what I consider the best bang for the buck, and performs as well as the AFE that goes for almost twice the cash...good call on that!
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
A
Wow, comparing a diesel tuner to a gas tuner is crazy. A diesel does not follow the same set of rules, it is dependant on the injection pressure, pulse width, and pulse timing. Your SCT looks terrible by the way. If that were properly tuned you would have a 6.0 in the area of 410-430 HP with 4" exhaust and an intake. 380 is about 40hp low, unless that is a SCT Strategy Flash tuner. If thats a custom tune, who did it? Any ways, you can not do to a gas car what you can with a diesel when talking about tuners. On a Duramax I can do a 350 HP gain with a tuner, on a 6.0 Ford I can do 160HP. On a gas.....most consider themselves lucky to get 30-40 HP tops from a tuner. The water meth kit is not comparable from gas to diesel. Take your 6.0 and toss a stage 2 or stage 3 snow performance kit on there and your talking about 80-120 HP....you will not see that from these gas powered Mazda engines. So you are dead on....it is not a good comparison for tuners or meth, but no one said you can get the same from tuners or meth on a Mazda as you can on a diesel....???? so what exactly is all that about? Diesel.....add tuner and water meth and you add almost 300 HP on your Ford as well as add 600-650 TQ.....no one here claims this is true of a Mazda! Even if you could add that much power and tq....t he engine would crack in half in the Mazda! We are talking 20-30 on the meth, maybe pushing towards 40-50 with a tune that can lean out the fuel/air and increase timing a bit. The 40-50 is not the meth alone, it is the meth and tuner working together. THis is VERY realistic.

BTW your airaid intake is what I consider the best bang for the buck, and performs as well as the AFE that goes for almost twice the cash...good call on that!
[/b]
Click to expand...
That is exactly what makes them similar! Not saying that we can get another 300 at the wheels or anything like that, just that the process and variances of tuning our motor will be similar. The DISI squirts fuel directly at the spark plug in a straight stream-line at a wopping ~1500-1700psi! Furthermore, it does this in the compression stroke! The cumbustion is designed to be a flare rather than a bang. This is why I think we will be able to safely squeeze alot more out of these particular motors.
Reply
Save
Like
J
+1
Reply
Save
Like
D
Also for those that would like to read more about W/M/A injection, NASIOC has a forum entirely dedicated to it.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=145
[/b]
Click to expand...
Very good forum you found there. Here is an interesting read. LINK
Reply
Save
Like
P
Very good forum you found there. Here is an interesting read. LINK
[/b]
Click to expand...
:thumbup: I agree, that FAQ is awesome and so are some of the other topics in there.
Reply
Save
Like
dj petey
Ok, but last time I checked HP and torque where 2 totally different measurements. I don't see how this proves anything.

Discount sorry about the Hi-Jacking of your thread. I will stop posting on it.
[/b]
Click to expand...
umm... pdt166, torque is a measure of force, (dynomometers aka dyno's measure torque = force x leverage, in laymans terms), HP is not a measurement, it is the resulting calculation of HP=((torque x rpm)/5252) which represents a historically and socially accepted unit of measure that references the equivalent number of horses (animals) that would theoretically be pulling your vehicle. However, as we all know, our cars aren't actually drawn by real horses (animals) so HP doesn't mean anything usefull. TQ is the only number you should be worried about. That's why a car with 200hp at 7500K can't keep up with a car that makes 200hp at 4K. because it puts out less torque. Please do some research before posting something like that because you're contributing to mis-information on the web and this is a big no-no. :slap:
Reply
Save
Like
J
:
umm... pdt166, torque is a measure of force, (dynomometers aka dyno's measure torque = force x leverage, in laymans terms), HP is not a measurement, it is the resulting calculation of HP=((torque x rpm)/5252) which represents a historically and socially accepted unit of measure that references the equivalent number of horses (animals) that would theoretically be pulling your vehicle. However, as we all know, our cars aren't actually drawn by real horses (animals) so HP doesn't mean anything usefull. TQ is the only number you should be worried about. That's why a car with 200hp at 7500K can't keep up with a car that makes 200hp at 4K. because it puts out less torque. Please do some research before posting something like that because you're contributing to mis-information on the web and this is a big no-no. :slap:
[/b]
Click to expand...

:cheers:
Reply
Save
Like
K
That is exactly what makes them similar! Not saying that we can get another 300 at the wheels or anything like that, just that the process and variances of tuning our motor will be similar. The DISI squirts fuel directly at the spark plug in a straight stream-line at a wopping ~1500-1700psi! Furthermore, it does this in the compression stroke! The cumbustion is designed to be a flare rather than a bang. This is why I think we will be able to safely squeeze alot more out of these particular motors.
[/b]
Click to expand...

Diesels inject fuel during the compression stroke...always.

DISI injects fuel during the compressions stroke ONLY during part-throttle cruising. At wide open throttle the fuel is injected during the intake stroke like a traditional PFI system. FWIW...
Reply
Save
Like
G
Wow - lots of interesting conversation on here. That's great to see, just like when Nitrous came on the scene so many years ago and it wasn't universally understood.

30hp gain at the wheels with no tuning? Totally possible, but not common or likely. What makes it more likely is when there is no intercooler, or the intercooler is heat soaking, and the compressor is past its efficiency range or the intake temps are just plain hot, etc. Also, the more adaptive the engine management, the better the gains without tuning. The more conservative the factory tune in this situation, the more gain you can get. As if the IATs are high, and that triggers ignition retarding and/or boost reduction, an instant gain can be had. If the engine is set very rich, with the addition of 30/70 water/methanol (-20 deg washer fluid), it will richen the mixture slightly (say about 1/3 point) which would very slightly lean the air-fuel mixture, also making more power.

On supercharged V8s, we have seen 30+ hp with no other changes, just injecting water-methanol. Apples and oranges, but still fruit. Again, not common, but totally possible.

I remember talking about the Speed6 and mentioning 30hp with a good tune shouldn't be a problem, but not without doing anything. We tend to be more conservative with our claims. Keep up the discussion, and post some dyno numbers. As long as our customers are happy with the results!
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
D
I installed it on mine, and I notice BIG seat-of-the-pants gains! The white knuckled passenger noticed it as well! I have the Super AFC Neo and a True Boost controller at the shop, it will soon be on the car with a wideband. Jun at APEXi has all of the wire diagrams currently and is working for a pin out for the car. He should get back to me tomorow.

Larry
Discount Power Parts
Reply
Save
Like
D
The white knuckled passenger noticed it as well! [/b]
Click to expand...
Just go ahead and say it Larry....you scare me you nut case! Dont be surprized when I say no thanks to the first test ride after all the new mods are installed. Your Mazda may be faster than my 7600 pound diesel, but I'll pull a Bigfoot on ya lol. Did I tell you Im not excited about cutting the wireharness on your 500 mile new car? Just food for thought. :D
Reply
Save
Like
S
ever get dyno'd? i have a nice mod list now and i came across a meth kit my friend had on his car and now he's selling it. im thinking about buying it and installing it.......
Reply
Save
Like
D
I dont have a 4x4 dyno to test it on, but I can tell you this......it works. Seat of the pants...the car pulls much harder, and you can use less octane fuel because the meth adds huge octane. I set mine up to come it at 7 lbs of boost and be in full at 14 lbs of boost. I dont know if you got the Snow Performance kit or what, but the Snow kit has a box you run a boost line to and it has 2 adjustable pot switches for adjusting the coming in pressure and the full flow pressure. You set the one where you want flow to start, and you set the other where you want max flow. I run the pump at the full 150 PSI max, but you can also turn pump pressure down if you need to decrease flow more. At the moment I am not running meth until I get a couple thousand miles on it with just the electronic boost control, intake, and BOV to see if the tranny is going to be OK after they rebuilt it. I dont want want to hit it to hard until I get a warm fuzzy feeling saying that the tranny is going to be OK....
Reply
Save
Like
P
you should put a video , like this we can see how the car reacts when it is activated !! it will give us a good idea
Reply
Save
Like
G
Diesels inject fuel during the compression stroke...always.

DISI injects fuel during the compressions stroke ONLY during part-throttle cruising. At wide open throttle the fuel is injected during the intake stroke like a traditional PFI system. FWIW...
[/b]
Click to expand...
Thats absolutely RIGHT.

And being able to do that also increases our ability to provide fuel significantly.. Believe me, our fueling is ready and able for 400whp no problem.. Maybe even MORE by opening our injectors sooner and holding them open longer with a tuner chip or standalone, and even more STILL by using a bigger primary and secondary pump to increase the pressure a bit! :drive:
Reply
Save
Like
41 - 59 of 59 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Mazda 6 Forums
Mazda6club.com is a forum dedicated to the Mazda6 / Atenza. Come and discuss reliability, performance, modifications, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Newbie Section Mazda6 (Atenza) Exterior Modifications Picture/Videos 3.0L V6
Top