[PDT166]

with no tuning available, water/meth injection is very dangerous. even when tuning becomes available, there are still chances of a problem arising. injectors tend to leak over time, and when those extra water droplets enter the intake stream, well, it would be the same as submerging your intake.

im not saying this will happen, but it can happen. water/meth is a way to add much more power, but also a way to destroy your engine. it is not for everyone. if u want to play with this system, i suggest you go grab yourself a turbo'd dsm and try it out.
[/b]

I agree, it is not a good idea to use water/meth injection unless you can control the AFR as well.

 

[PDT166]

With this simple install, you just added about 30-40 RWHP to your car without adding any major components, or spending more than a few hundred bucks. We at Discount Power Parts have been running and playing with water/meth injection systems for 3 years on our competition sled-pull trucks and had great success with absolutely no failures from the system. I expect to run this MazdaSPEED 6 thru its paces and not experience any trouble whats-so-ever. I do expect lower EGT’s, more available power, and longer engine and turbo life!

Larry....
[/b]

I agree that this is very good way to wring extra horses out of the engine, but until some one comes out with a method to tune the AFR on the MS6 this is a risky project. What the injection does it sprays a very fine mist of water/methanol to futher cool the air before it hits the cyclinders to mix with the fuel. So, you are increasing the density of the air in the cyclinders with out the ECU taking that into account and adjusting the fuel ratio appropriately, in otherwords leaning out the mix.

I know that they all turbo cars come from the factory running rich, so leaning it out might not be a bad idea. But its not something I would want to take a chance on without a way to tune the fuel flow.

 

[PDT166]

I spoke to Snow about the system and what they would expect, and they said that going off of thier VW/Acura experiance they would expect an honest to god 30 wheel HP without tuning. I say that I am seeing every bit of 20-30 HP
[/b]

I find it very hard to believe that you are seeing 20-30 HP at the Wheels, nor do I believe that Snow can truthfully expect 20-30 HP the wheels without tuning based on their experiance. Not that I don't think that Snow is very knowledgable, but I can't think of any Acura or VW that comes from the Factory with a Turbo AND AWD.

Most of the cars that they are refering to would have to be modified to have a turbo and if they have a turbo they are more than likely going to be heavily tuned. For the VWs that are Turbo'd they still will not be accurated numbers because there is a HUGE difference between FWD and RWD compared to AWD. AWD is parasitic and eats more HP along the way to get the car moving.

For example most stock WRX's are initially Dyno'd in the 180-190 range, but at the crank they have 220.

In other words you need 2 Dyno pulls: One Stock and the other with the mod.

Also for those that would like to read more about W/M/A injection, NASIOC has a forum entirely dedicated to it.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=145

 

[PDT166]

VW Touareg V10 TDI is turbo and is AWD

Acura RDX is AWD and has a turbo 4
[/b]

Ok, and a Diesel is similar to our cars how??? :headscrat:
As for the RDX..how long have those been out and do you think that Snow has put their kit on it???

IMHO, I can seet it. Hell CP-E dyno's those types of gains with their intake, exhaust and down pipe, individually! Gawd, i can't wait to see it dynoed as a combo. This platform reaks of bottlenecks due to it's marketing and positioning as a non-sports car. I wouldn't be surprised to see meth injection produce 20-30hp at the wheels given that the weak link on this car is heat, heat, and more heat. And as we all know: heat = detonation = knock = timing retard = boost cut = loss of power. Remember that the gains Larry has found is near readline at the upper end of the rev range where we know boost drops by 50%. any mod that brings that boost back up will automatically see gains. (so long as you're aren't out of the efficiency range of the turbo, which we know we're not as TXS has proven with 13psi at redline and P5freek has proven with 15psi at redline) remember 20-30hp will not be peak but gains but max gains.
[/b]

Ok, first of all I want to see a stock car that has shown a 20-30HP just by adding a intake. In order for that to get the wheels that would have to be like a 30-50HP improvement at the flywheel which is INSANE for a simple intake on a non built engine. Also, what do you mean by it will be max gains not peak? Are meaning that you might see more power in the mid range while the top end HP is the same. That make much sense when referring to Alcohol injection, becuase it mainly kicks in one things start to really spool. Which this lead into my very first statement on this. For everyone considering this I would hold out until EM was made for our cars.

If you have questions about this method of cooling the air please refer to the link I posted above. It contains many post where WRX and STi owners have asked questions and recieved answers.

 

[PDT166]

i don't know how exactly the tuning works on the speed yet. but my understanding is it is pulling boost (or throttle as it were) after roughly 5500. now if this is in the tuning, it seems that it's set at a rough rpm rather than a temp, unless everyone's car hits a certain temp at the same rpm. i think someone like P5Freak would see more gains as he's running the boost controller, but for someone that has a bone stock car, i don't see 20hp to the wheels without any tuning. i've spent a lot of time on the subi and mitsu forums looking in the past year, and it just makes no sense to see those gains? even when looking at cars with shitty TMIC's (like the mini) i haven't seen any gains remotely close to substantial prior to tuning.

Now as i said before, i think in most cases, that buttdyno is more FUN than anything you can see on a dyno sheet. if YOU feel it, that's what matters, that's why i still tell people do remove the balance shaft. but i don't feel bad if it doesn't show up on a dyno, cause you can feel it for sure.

the hard thing is also, just like believing there is a turbo kit for the 3.0, is no one will believe anything until there is a dyno (and in most cases with A/F on it to make sure it's safe). just because a Gtech says you gained 50hp doesn't mean it can be shown to the masses and they can see how it will benefit them. it's seems like most are believers here except for a few skeptics, so you never know.
[/b]

I completely agree. And tuning on the Speed6's should be done with the A/F ratio. I believe that regardless of how much boost you are pushing the car will always use the MAF to adjust the A/F ratios. If I am mistaken then there would be no need for tuning with the Snow kit then.

 

[PDT166]

max gain occurs at 3375rpm where it goes from 227ft/lbs stock to 255ft/lbs with CAI. a gain of 28ft/lbs TQ. your welcome.
[/b]

Ok, but last time I checked HP and torque where 2 totally different measurements. I don't see how this proves anything.

Discount sorry about the Hi-Jacking of your thread. I will stop posting on it.

 

[PDT166]

Very good forum you found there. Here is an interesting read. LINK
[/b]

:thumbup: I agree, that FAQ is awesome and so are some of the other topics in there.