Mazda 6 Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I had a couple of fails here with the W/M kit:

First the pump kept running (cycling pretty loudly) and I wasn't seeing much drop in BATs at all. Also, the green light is NOT coming on. I don't know if it's a wiring problem, or a problem with the solenoid.

I'm just using 100% distilled water until I make sure it's spraying as it should. So, I checked under the hood, and when I threaded the fuel line barbs on the solenoid near the tap, I forgot to tighten them all the way and it was leaking a lot. I bought this kit in July, and I must have just hand tightened them and forgot all about it. No biggie, I took it off and wrenched it real tight. I then blew air into the vac line, and let it empty what was in the tank onto the ground just to clear out the tube.

I re-connected the hose to the solenoid, and filled the tank to the brim with distilled water. The pump isn't cycling loudly anymore, and water is definitely making it to the solenoid, but I'm not sure if it's spraying or not :( I'm using a rather large nozzle for the K04 (M05), and I set it to start spraying at 5 PSI and full at 15 PSI.... I'm NOT going to run it like that but I'm trying to figure out if it's working.

I'm using the ISF-10 fail safe controller, and BBK-20 BCS failsafe. Total of 7 grounds, and a bunch of other wires. I grounded everything right to the battery, so that's not the issue. What's the easiest way to test for this? Just unplug the hose from the tap, and blow air into the vac line? Ugh... I don't know if it's just the green LED light not working, or if there's a problem with the solenoid, or what.

If the light is just broke or something, what should I be looking for to see if it's working right w/ the above set up? How much change in BATs/AFRs, etc?

TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
first of all it's SNAFU not sanfu.
second i can't help you. sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Doug...im eating dinner right now. Ill post some help for u when im done
Thanks bro, I realized I fucked up too. Earlier I tried unplugging it from the solenoid and setting start spray to 0 PSI, and just blew some air into it, and it came pouring out. However, I just went out to try the same thing, but this time I disconnected it from the nozzle to see if it is spraying through the solenoid. Well, I mananged to have it reversed (out to in, etc.), so I swapped it back, but this time I didn't get anything coming out... but maybe it was a fine mist? I dunno, it's dark out. I flashed a new map, and did a couple wot runs, hoping to gleam something out of it. BATs drop a bit, but don't plunge. Green light is still not coming on. I don't know if I'm spraying and the light is faulty, or if I'm not spraying at all :/ Log attached.

My BATs go from about 102 to 90 in second under wot, and then back up to 102 after I let off. Seems like it's spraying. Bats do drop as you accelerate, but since they start to increase after I let off... makes me think the water is spraying, but I'm not sure. What do you think? I remember when DJ first put the same kit in, he saw his BATs go from 125 to the 70F in one 3rd gear pull! That was with washer fluid, but my BATs should be dropping more than 10F even with just 100% distilled water, right? Could the nozzle/tap be fucked up?

EDIT: Second log attached of just 2nd gear... shows about the same thing.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,758 Posts
Ok, doug...

Do you have a multimeter or a minimum a good test light?

Since you said the water is getting to the solenoid from the pump when you disconnect it from the solenoid but you don't get anything thru the solenoid. Let's start there.

Let's make sure the solenoid at least works. Disconnect both solenoid wires from the power and ground you have then hooked to. Now touch one wire of the solenoid to the positive terminal of the battery and then the other to the negative. The solenoid should make a very defined click noise. And againonce u remove one of the wires. This test will determine whether or not the solenoid is actually opening and closing.

Now if the solenoid is functioning with the hardline test above then now we need to make sure the contoller is sending the power to the solenoid to open it when the pump activates. It would be better if u have or can borrow an air compressor but we can try just putting the start boost setting as low as possible and blowing into it manually. May help if you ave an extra set of hands here as well.

Take the positive lead of your multimeter and put it on the power wire coming out of the controller that would be connected to the solenoid and the other multimeter lead to the point where u had the solenoid grounded. If you don't have a multimeter...attach the test light accordingly. Now turn the ignition on or just starting the car will work too. Blow into the vac line that goes into the controller. The test light should light up if the contoller is functioning properly or the multimeter should read 12volts. If not u may have or honestly most likely the controller is shot or you have the power hooked up to a lead that goes dead when the car is running.

Water alone is not going to decrease BATs much. The water will decrease cylinder temps which inturn decrease exhaust gas temps. The methanol is what will decrease BATs. Being as you are using all water is probably why u aren't seeing the BATs drop drastically like DJ. Washer fluid believe it or not ranges from 28%-39% meth depending on manufacturer. Ill find my MSDS sheet for the difference and post it up. You may possibly have not had an issue at all judging off the BATs.

Let me know
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks bro, yeah I have a multimeter, and an air compressor, so I'm good there. Testing the solenoid and the controller is a bit tricky because there are 4 wires that connect together in one place, and my negatives are grouped in pairs or more, but they are all grounded to the battery. Can you test the positive of something off of any wire that connects to all of them? Like there is a connector with two wires going into each side... does it matter where or which wire I test of the four?

I wish I had the wire diagram or I'd scan it and show you (misplaced, of course, lol). The only thing that's wired to power is the main controller (VC-25). It has 4 wires:

1. Green: to + of the pump
2. Yellow: to the +'s of the failsafe controller, solenoid, and Green LED.
3. Red: to key on 15amp fuse (used an 'add a fuse' in fuse box)
4 Black: to ground

The Failsafe controller has 4 wires, but I'm only using three:
1. Red: To yellow of the VC-25 (as well as solenoid and Green LED as in 2 above)
2. Green: To BCS FS, and Red LED
3. Black: Ground
4. Blue: Not using (goes to an optional flow ml/min display).

That's the wiring from memory.... I left out the other grounds, but there are 6 total, including the LEDs.

Here's the strange thing. Dan Labonte told me that the main controller (vc-25 from Trav) may not work with the fail safe controller and bcs failsafe, which I bought new. It will work, BUT there may be a voltage issue that causes false positives... if it happens, the FS will trip (even good with flow because of a signal delay) and I'll run spring and the red LED will trip. Well, no LED's are tripping so IDK wtf is going on here.

The +/- do not matter on the solenoid, so those wires can't be crossed. Same goes for the bcs solenoid. I'll have to dig out the wires and test the solenoid as you suggest, and then the controller. I'm hoping it works, but I was half expecting false positives on the FS. They changed the wiring of the vc-25 controller so it does not have the voltage issue... but again, that is not the problem I'm having here. If that solenoid was working though, I would have expected it to bog w/ the M05 with start at 0 or 5PSI and full at 15 PSI. That's quite a bit, and it just pulls hard as usual.

Before I rip all the wires apart (and hoping for the best that it's just bad ground to the LED), I could just empty the tank and fill it half way with Heet, and see if the BATs plummet. I was pulling the LED lights back and forth through the firewall, but I soldered extensions on all of them. possible I F'd up that solenoid by having it reversed?

Thanks for all you help Justin, I appreciate it!

EDIT: I haven't moved Trav's tank location up higher yet, so the fuel lines on the pump are higher than the bottom of the tank (up about 1/3 of the height of the tank). The pump self-primes, and it shouldn't be an issue, but some people had problems. However, will the tank full, 2/3 of the water is above the pump, so that shouldn't matter anyways, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
I dont mean to interfere or anything and glad Great NY is helping cause i sure couldnt, but i first read the title as "snafu with meth lab kit....little help please". just a good laugh.

sorry for all the issues youve been having with your care lately, hopefully you can get everything nice and working soon. good luck getting it all together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I dont mean to interfere or anything and glad Great NY is helping cause i sure couldnt, but i first read the title as "snafu with meth lab kit....little help please". just a good laugh.

sorry for all the issues youve been having with your care lately, hopefully you can get everything nice and working soon. good luck getting it all together.
lol Thanks, but I didn't say meth lab, and I'm not having any problems with my care ;). A typo is the least of my issues, but I'm glad you got a chuckle anyways. I really want to get this straightened out tomorrow as the DP and mani go in on Friday, so I'll be done with the power mods for a good year. I look forward to getting the w/m kit running so I can get her tuned, and then get back to my studies :). And Justin is a great guy, and VERY knowledgeable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,758 Posts
Remember that this unit is progressive. You said you have it set at 5psi start and 15psi max so you have a nice gradual spray curve. So the injection at that curve may not be past the threshold of causing the car to bog.

Id recommend testing thing separately first. U can test them hooked together. But its typically better to isolate circuits when troubleshooting.

If you want to test things quick like...

This is just to see if its spraying. Set up the controller like u originally had it. Set your air compressor to about 10psi...take the injection fitting out and aim it into a cup and turn the car ignition to on...and put air to the vac line that feeds the controller. At 10psi..u should get a nice mist out of the injection nozzle. You should hear the pump activate and the solenoid click
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Remember that this unit is progressive. You said you have it set at 5psi start and 15psi max so you have a nice gradual spray curve. So the injection at that curve may not be past the threshold of causing the car to bog.

Id recommend testing thing separately first. U can test them hooked together. But its typically better to isolate circuits when troubleshooting.

If you want to test things quick like...

This is just to see if its spraying. Set up the controller like u originally had it. Set your air compressor to about 10psi...take the injection fitting out and aim it into a cup and turn the car ignition to on...and put air to the vac line that feeds the controller. At 10psi..u should get a nice mist out of the injection nozzle. You should hear the pump activate and the solenoid click
Yes, but earlier tonight I set it to zero PSI and tried blowing in and nothing... maybe I'm out of hot air, but I doubt that. I'll try the quick test first. The only thing is I have a small compressor that is not very accurate under 20 PSI... it's hard to dial anything in below that. Will it harm the controller if I do run 20-25 PSI in there? Can I set it 25 or 30, and just do short bursts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Just try to get it under 30psi.
Will do. I'll try that in the morning and see what happens. Water was definitely going through the failsafe controller to the solenoid. That's how I first saw the issue... it was leaking like a mofo as I never fully tightened the threads on the solenoid, lol. It was also foaming when I detached it from the solenoid. I had blown 90 PSI through all the lines before the install. After I detached it from the solenoid, I let it run detached, and emptied the tank... no foam, so I'm assuming that was just air in the lines? Haltech was saying you have to get the fuel line filled up to the solenoid first, but the instructions say nothing about that at all... it just says that the pump is self priming. Is he wrong on that?

The only other thing is, if it is spraying with the compressor test, then it must just be that the LED is messed up. I'm think it's the solenoid or the wiring though. I guess I'll know more tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help man, I really appreciate it!.

Arghhh.... it took soo damn long to fab/paint/mount everything, and run the fuel line and wires exactly how I wanted. Such a bummer that something is screwy :(. I'm hoping it's just something stupid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,414 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I tested the solenoid and it works fine. The problem is the controller. I have the older version of the VC-25, and it is NOT compatible with the IFS-10 failsafe... at all. I was half expecting a problem, as I talked to Dan about this months ago. If it wasn't compatible it should have just sent false positives to the IFS-10, and tripped the BCS failsafe. I talked to Dan the man Labonte for awhile today, and it turns out there were two versions of the VC-25, and mine is the older version, which isn't compatible with the failsafe system at all. I went over all the wiring with him, and he said it's definitely set up correctly. He also said that when I accidentally ran the fuel lines to the solenoid backwards, it would not have damaged the solenoid, so that was good news.

The VC-25 controller I have will work fine without the failsafes, but I'm just going to pick up a new controller, and he's cutting me a break on it. It's not a huge deal that it doesn't run at all, since I don't have the newest version, it would have sent false positives to the BBK-20 anyways, and I would have needed a new controller regardless.

The good news is I don't have to re-wire anything since I set it up the way it should be. All I have to do is unplug the wire harness going to my VC-25, swap in the new controller, and plug it in. The 'new' wires are all in the same ports, so that will making swapping them out and fixing it a breeze. The bad news is I'm going to be broke as hell after the DP/Mani install, so the new controller will have to wait a couple of weeks. That's no biggie, because I'll have to re-cal the maf after the dp/mani, and I still have to tune the ebcs and everything else first without meth anyways. Once I get it dialed in, I'll pick up the new controller and tune for meth.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top