[falcontx]

Revolution Performance Motorsports is having some springs made specifically for the Mazdaspeed 6.

Having analyzed the Mazdaspeed 6 suspension, we have determined that the ideal set of springs would provide a moderate drop while increasing the front spring rate by 18% to 330 lb/in and increasing the rear spring rate by 35% to 250 lb/in. This will be our "springs only" package, which will be meant to be used along with the stock shocks.

We also plan to release a second set of springs that will be designed to work well with Koni shocks. These springs will provide the same amount of drop, but will provide a further increased spring rate. The Koni's will be able to handle this, whereas the stock shocks would not. Currently, our plan for this set is a 1-inch drop with a front spring rate increase of 36% to 380 lb/in, and a rear spring rate increase of 57% to 290 lb/in. This set will be sold separately and as a package along with Koni shocks.

Final pricing is estimated to be in the $230-240 range, which will include shipping.

Questions and comments are welcome. We will be providing updates in this thread as they come along.

 

[ksource]

Damn I wish I was closer, sounds good. I'm ready to jump on this, finally something affordable.

 

[falcontx]

Damn I wish I was closer, sounds good. I'm ready to jump on this, finally something affordable.
[/b]

Location isn't an issue. Local is better, but highly unlikely in this case. If someone is interested in purchasing the Koni shocks, we would have everything shipped to them, of course. Being a prototype, this person would simply need to be willing to change the springs for a second time if the first springs weren't perfect, etc. So in other words, someone who has the time and ability to do their own installation is ideal.

 

[hansolocujo]

This sounds good. I think I'll wait to see how these work out instead of jumping on the autoexe group buy.

 

[SSinstaller]

Revolution Performance Motorsports is having some springs made specifically for the Mazdaspeed 6. They are being manufactured overseas in one of the same facilities used by some well known spring brands. Once we are closer to release, more detail will be provided.

Having analyzed the Mazdaspeed 6 suspension, we have determined that the ideal set of springs would provide a moderate 1-inch drop while increasing the front spring rate by 18% to 330 lb/in and increasing the rear spring rate by 35% to 250 lb/in. Additionally, in order to maintain a reasonably good ride quality once the car is lowered, we plan to supply shorter bump stops for the front shocks with our kit, and provide instructions on how to properly trim the rear bump stops. This will be our "springs only" package, which will be meant to be used along with the stock shocks.

We also plan to release a second set of springs that will be designed to work well with Koni shocks. These springs will provide the same amount of drop, but will provide a further increased spring rate. The Koni's will be able to handle this, whereas the stock shocks would not. Currently, our plan for this set is a 1-inch drop with a front spring rate increase of 36% to 380 lb/in, and a rear spring rate increase of 57% to 290 lb/in. This set will be sold separately and as a package along with Koni shocks.

Final pricing is estimated to be in the $240-280 range, which will include shipping as well as the springs and front bump stops. We are expecting to have prototypes available sometime before Christmas, assuming all goes as planned. We currently have a customer who will be testing the "springs only" package. However, we still need someone who is willing to purchase Koni shocks (at a discount) to test with our second set of springs. Both customers will receive the springs themselves for free, provided they assist us as needed during the testing process.

Questions and comments are welcome. We will be providing updates in this thread as they come along.
[/b]

I'll test the stiffer springs for you.

Is there a reason why you decided not go go with a little more drop on the stiffer spring set?? Wouldn't the koni shocks add some suspension travel in the front to accomidate a larger drop, (mabey 1.4", front 1.3" rear.)

What would the total cost be for the Koni shocks?



Chris

 

[tulude]

Having analyzed the Mazdaspeed 6 suspension, we have determined that the ideal set of springs would provide a moderate 1-inch drop while increasing the front spring rate by 18% to 330 lb/in and increasing the rear spring rate by 35% to 250 lb/in. Additionally, in order to maintain a reasonably good ride quality once the car is lowered, we plan to supply shorter bump stops for the front shocks with our kit, and provide instructions on how to properly trim the rear bump stops. This will be our "springs only" package, which will be meant to be used along with the stock shocks.


**Thats what im looking for something i can use with stock shocks!**

 

[toybiz]

Perfect! It was only a matter of time...
Curious, what color powercoating will your springs have?
Should we have a vote? My vote is for dark purple

 

[SSinstaller]

Perfect! It was only a matter of time...
Curious, what color powercoating will your springs have?
Should we have a vote? My vote is for dark purple
[/b]

I vote for plain old black, they'll be that color after a few weeks anyway..

 

[Stretch]

Is there a reason why you decided not go go with a little more drop on the stiffer spring set?? Wouldn't the koni shocks add some suspension travel in the front to accomidate a larger drop, (mabey 1.4", front 1.3" rear.)[/b]

Yes, the Koni's add suspension travel. This could be used to justify a lower drop, sure. However, I think it is better kept as bump travel to keep you off the bump stops.

The "soft" set of RPM springs are going to come with shortened bump stops. This is fantastic- probably the most important part of lowering, and yet nearly always overlooked. The shortened stops will allow you to keep some linear bump travel that otherwise wouldn't have been there. Still, a 1" drop is going to take away roughly 30% of your bump travel, and there's only so small you can make a bump stop. I'd of liked to see a slightly smaller drop than this, honestly, but I'm sure nobody would buy them. Looks sell.

So, I see the primary advantage of the Koni's added suspension travel as being able to restore all the factory travel- the stuff lost by lowering. This is good for performance and does wonders for ride quality. Thus, I would not suggest using them as an excuse to go lower, putting you on or barely above the bump stops again.

I think the firm set of RPM springs with Koni's will outperform any sub-$1000 coilover set by a longshot. No joke. Koni shocks are incredible and worth every penny. And while I would've preferred a slightly more conservative drop, the softer RPM springs will probably be the best in its class, too.

Here's a lengthy post of mine I posted in another thread. It probably belongs here too. I talked with RPM about spring design and these are some of the things we discussed:
QUOTE("A long post on spring design.")

Here are some things to consider. I am making an assumption here that the Mazdaspeed OE shocks match the length and shock travel of a standard Mazda6, but that being the case:

- A stock Mazda6 hovers just above its bump stops up front at the stock ride height. Thus, all lowered Mazda6's on stock shocks ride on their bump stops up front.

- A car that rides on its bump stops has limited or no bump suspension travel. This means the suspension cannot compress, just rebound.

- Bump stops typically add 150-200lb/in to your spring rate initially and climb to infinity. Thus, lowering springs with stock spring rates will still be 150-200lb/in firmer than stock.

- Bump stops lead to incredibly progressive spring rates. This leads to instability in corners.

- Shocks and suspension travel determine ride quality far more than spring rates do.

- Fender gap must exist up front for there to be usable suspension travel. It need not exist in the rear.

- Lowering a Mazda6 is the only way to get negative camber up front. This is good for performance.

- Lowering the car's center of gravity is the only easy way to reduce weight shifts in the car. This is good for performance.

- It is impossible to run a much firmer sway bar in the rear. You must increase roll resistance in the rear via springs. This is a good argument for increasing the rate of the rear springs more than the front.

- Going too firm will require aftermarket shocks are you'll find the car underdamped. This leads to bounciness and instability.

- Anything over a ~400lb/in spring up front (really rough estimate) will have to be progressive or the spring won't be long enough. At 400lb/in, each front spring will have compressed 2.5 inches to reach ride height (about 1000lbs sprung weight on each front wheel). If the spring isn't long enough, the spring will fall out of its cup when the car is at full droop. Progressive springs are bad, but it's not a big deal if the soft coils act only as a helper spring.

- I don't know what the maximum possible linear rate is for the rear. However, you see K-Sport's "linear" rear springs are actually very progressive. They have to be or they'd fall out.

- Since a firm rear spring must be progressive, it is beneficial to make the soft coils as soft as possible. That way the car will use these soft coils less often as they'll stay coil-bound. This means the spring will almost always behave like a linear spring.

- People are idiots when it comes to suspension. Nearly all spring companies cater to their market and focus on looks alone.

In summary:

Lowering the car has performance benefits, but they are often outweighed by the drawbacks of having too little suspension travel. Pay close attention to your bump stops. I'd recommend only lowering the Mazda6 a minor amount up front (1/2 - 3/4 inch), and even the I'd consider aftermarket (shorter, softer) bump stops. Since the rear of the car has more suspension travel, it is safer to lower the car more in the rear. However, that'd look kind of weird, so I'd recommend an equal drop for the rear. You want that center of gravity down wherever you can do it. Trim a progression or two from the rear bump stops. I'd increase the front spring rate no more than 20% because I don't think the stock shocks will handle it. I'd increase the rear more than this and get Koni shocks if necessary. Since Koni shocks add suspension travel up front, it would be safe to lower the car more on a car with Koni shocks.

So, for stock shocks, I'd recommend springs with 1/2" lowering front and rear that are 15-20% firmer up front and 30-40% firmer in the rear. Shorter front bump stops, trimmed rear bump stops.

For those with Koni shocks, I'd recommend springs with 1" lowering front and rear that are 40-50% firmer up front and 70-100% firmer in the rear. Rears would have to be progressive for sure; make soft coils as soft as possible so they're rarely used. Shorter front bump stops, trimmed rear bump stops.[/b]

One last reminder: I am still making an assumption about the Mazdaspeed's OE shocks and their suspension travel. I am assuming they are the same length as a regular Mazda6. This is an important measurement, though, and I'd love if someone could measure it for me. If you have a shock off the car, remove the spring, then the rubber dust boot (but not the bump stop), and take a picture of the shaft alongside a ruler.

If someone really wants to be an overacheiver, they could put a zip tie around the shock's shaft before lowering the car off its jackstands. Get in the car softly then drive the car 1ft to get any binding forces out of the suspension links. Then jack it up again. Now, measure where the zip tie is on the shock shaft. That'd tell you where the car sits at its ride height, which tells us exactly how much suspension travel there is to play with.

One last link:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65985

This is my thread on the STI hitting its bump stops. This one gets rather technical, but it's a good (even if very long) read. I bet the Mazda6 is very similar to the STI regarding its suspension travel situation. One difference to keep in mind here is that 3 inches of wheel travel on the STI equates to 2.9 inches of strut travel whereas 3 inches of wheel travel on a Mazda6 equates to just 2 inches of shock travel. The motion ratios are different. (In the rear, the Mazda6's motion ratio is more like 2:1.)

Make sure you read posts 105 and 110, I've got some graphs there that I found pretty interesting. They are good example of what the spring rate of most cars looks like when lowered (and why typical slammed lowering springs are horribly stupid).

 

[FakterX]

Great news! I completely support this and will definitley be getting in on this.

 

[SSinstaller]

Yes, the Koni's add suspension travel. This could be used to justify a lower drop, sure. However, I think it is better kept as bump travel to keep you off the bump stops.

The "soft" set of RPM springs are going to come with shortened bump stops. This is fantastic- probably the most important part of lowering, and yet nearly always overlooked. The shortened stops will allow you to keep some linear bump travel that otherwise wouldn't have been there. Still, a 1" drop is going to take away roughly 30% of your bump travel, and there's only so small you can make a bump stop. I'd of liked to see a slightly smaller drop than this, honestly, but I'm sure nobody would buy them. Looks sell.

So, I see the primary advantage of the Koni's added suspension travel as being able to restore all the factory travel- the stuff lost by lowering. This is good for performance and does wonders for ride quality. Thus, I would not suggest using them as an excuse to go lower, putting you on or barely above the bump stops again.

I think the firm set of RPM springs with Koni's will outperform any sub-$1000 coilover set by a longshot. No joke. Koni shocks are incredible and worth every penny. And while I would've preferred a slightly more conservative drop, the softer RPM springs will probably be the best in its class, too.

Here's a lengthy post of mine I posted in another thread. It probably belongs here too. I talked with RPM about spring design and these are some of the things we discussed:
One last reminder: I am still making an assumption about the Mazdaspeed's OE shocks and their suspension travel. I am assuming they are the same length as a regular Mazda6. This is an important measurement, though, and I'd love if someone could measure it for me. If you have a shock off the car, remove the spring, then the rubber dust boot (but not the bump stop), and take a picture of the shaft alongside a ruler.

If someone really wants to be an overacheiver, they could put a zip tie around the shock's shaft before lowering the car off its jackstands. Get in the car softly then drive the car 1ft to get any binding forces out of the suspension links. Then jack it up again. Now, measure where the zip tie is on the shock shaft. That'd tell you where the car sits at its ride height, which tells us exactly how much suspension travel there is to play with.

One last link:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65985

This is my thread on the STI hitting its bump stops. This one gets rather technical, but it's a good (even if very long) read. I bet the Mazda6 is very similar to the STI regarding its suspension travel situation. One difference to keep in mind here is that 3 inches of wheel travel on the STI equates to 2.9 inches of strut travel whereas 3 inches of wheel travel on a Mazda6 equates to just 2 inches of shock travel. The motion ratios are different. (In the rear, the Mazda6's motion ratio is more like 2:1.)

Make sure you read posts 105 and 110, I've got some graphs there that I found pretty interesting. They are good example of what the spring rate of most cars looks like when lowered (and why typical slammed lowering springs are horribly stupid).
[/b]

Can't view your attachments there as I'm not a member. I read the thread though and it's got some great info in it.

It's pretty obvious that you have a little( :bowdown: ) more suspension knowledge than me, so I'll take you word for it...

1" drop it is!! Do you know if RPM will include new shorter bumpstops with the stiffer springs, or will I need to cut the stocks.

 

[Japan8]

While not explictly stated, I understand falcontx's comments to mean that both spring kits will come with new front bump stops and instructions for how much to remove from the rear bump stops.

 

[ATL]

Send me a set. I just took off those soft TEIN springs. Need new shocks and a set of Springs. How much for the Koni's with discount?

 

[falcontx]

I already have a volunteer for both sets of springs, so no more PMs in regard to that, please.

If I need anything or anyone else, I'll let you all know. Otherwise, just stay tuned for more updates.

 

[flyingm]

Maybe I missed it but these will be linear rate springs correct?

 

[falcontx]

Maybe I missed it but these will be linear rate springs correct?
[/b]

Yes, they will be.

 

[jd42]

This is fabulous news! These spring packages are exactly what I've been wanting-- appropriate spring rates for the MS6 with only a moderate drop (the roads where I live are crap).

The spring+shock package definately sounds like a killer upgrade. The only aspect of this that doesn't excite me is the necessity to chop up the OEM shocks to install the Koni shocks. For those who have used the Koni shocks before, could a set of worn out Mazda6i shocks be used instead as parts for the Koni install? I'd really prefer to keep my OEM shocks intact to facillitate reverting the suspension to stock in the future.

 

[falcontx]

For those who have used the Koni shocks before, could a set of worn out Mazda6i shocks be used instead as parts for the Koni install? I'd really prefer to keep my OEM shocks intact to facillitate reverting the suspension to stock in the future.
[/b]

Yes, they could. You can use shocks from any Mazda 6 (worn out or not) for the parts needed to fit the Konis.

 

[PROGMS6]

I WANT A SET!!!!!

RPM please keep us posted...... maybe we can begin a GB after you release the pricing for both pkgs, depending on the shocks/springs pkg price I might get those.

:laugh: I'll be keeping an eye on this!!!!

 

[jinhao]

i'm in as long as the price is ballpark what you mentioned in post #1.