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I grabed the Mazda 6 specs of of Mazda Australia's web site to have a look at the gearing, I'm in the U.S. but I believe they should be close to this for us. I was surprised to see that the 5spd on the V6 has such a low first gear ratio 3.153 to 1, while the I-4 first gear ratio is 3.307 to 1. I'm wondering if that will drastically affect acceleration the V6. In addition he 5 spd auto tranny has a first gear ratio of 3.801 to 1, which is quite high for a automatic. Any thoughts on how this may affect performance? will the U.S. specs be the same? BMW is able to get alot out of its small engines by gearing the hell out of them, so I'm worried that the v6 5spd won't perform as well as it could. I have to admit, I doubt Mazda dumped alot of R&D into the 5spd for the V6, most markets don't get a v6 and the ones that do, most will want a automatic.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

My guess is that the V6 has slightly taller gearing in 1st because of the increased torque over the 4cyl.

You might be right about the 5 speed V6 combo development. However, picking good gear ratios is not that difficult, and really has no reason to be overlooked.

BMW's are fast, but I must say you have to shift a ton during acceleration. My aunt drives a Z3 2.8, and I swear redline comes so fast I barely have time to get the clutch in.

I'm sure they rounded out the numbers to provide a good balance of performance and comfort. The 6 is not a sports car afterall.

As far as the auto goes, would the fact that the ratio is high be making up for the power lost in the torque converter? I don't know what drive ratios are in other manual/auto cars, but it would be interesting to see if other vehicles have a higher ratio on the auto than the manual.

EDIT: Australia doesn't have the V6 model I don't believe. I went to the site and it looks like the 2.3L is the only option. I'm curious where you got the specs.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Back again.

Went to the Mazda6 site on http://www.mazdausa.com and they have the gearing ratios for the US spec cars there.

5 Speed Manual
I4: 3.307
V6: 3.153

4 speed auto:
I4: 2.816

5 speed auto:
V6: 3.801

I'd be more concerned with that crazy low number on the I4 auto. They probably figure that those looking for sport are not going to get a 4cyl automatic, so they just gear that nice and tall for those folks. The V6 auto is crazy high by comparison.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

QUOTE
Originally posted by Jerome81


            Back again.

Went to the Mazda6 site on http://www.mazdausa.com and they have the gearing ratios for the US spec cars there.

5 Speed Manual
I4: 3.307
V6: 3.153

4 speed auto:
I4: 2.816

5 speed auto:
V6: 3.801

I'd be more concerned with that crazy low number on the I4 auto.  They probably figure that those looking for sport are not going to get a 4cyl automatic, so they just gear that nice and tall for those folks.  The V6 auto is crazy high by comparison.[/b]
What does 3.153 mean? What does a high number mean?
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Looked up some figures on gear selection ( gear x final drive ) which give an interesting comparison
between the US and Austrlian spec cars.

...........Aussie Spec.......US Spec.........US spec
...........2.3 Litre I4.......2.3Litre I4......3.0 Litre V6

1st.......14.511...........13.575...........13.031
2nd.......8.083............7.561............7.613
3rd.......5.410............5.061............5.199
4th.......4.256............3.752............3.914
5th.......3.313............2.943............3.029

The australian spec cars are noticably lower geared across the range.
I suspect they've gone for the low first gear purely to improve standing start acceleration

Sprint times for Australian 2.3L 5spd is 0-60km/h in 3.8 secs, 0-100km/h in 8.5 secs
I imagine the US I4 would be about 0.5 sec slower to 100, the V6 about 0.5 sec quicker,
given their higher gearing.

Would be interesting to see the US V6 mated to the Aust spec 5spd though.:D
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Interesting analysis, I would think that the V6 5spd would be quite a bit faster to 0-100km/h/60mph due to the increase in torque. I'm expecting the U.S. I-4 5spd to do a 0-60 in about 8 sec with the v65spd at around ~6.8... anyone agree or disagree with that? The v6 weight is not excessive, in fact its on par with a BMW 325.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

I don't see how the USDM I4 will get an 8 second 0-60 given the numbers above. The Australian spec. manual I4 goes 0-100Km in 8.5 sec. 100Km/h is about 62mph. So I would expect a 0-100Km time of around 9 seconds, and a 0-60mph time a tenth or two less than that. I think you're pretty optimistic about the V6 time as well. Look for times in the low to mid seven second range. The USDM cars are just not geared very aggressively. It's kind of disappointing really. They keep saying they won't compromise, but then they do. :sarc
Of course, as I've said before, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a fun car make.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

I just want to add that 5-speed manual transmission (Europe) is little
too short for 2.3 engine. Yes, it facilitates good acceleration, but it is
not very comfortable for long driving at high speeds 140kmh and more.
Rpms are too high, noise of engine is quite noticable. 2.3 engine has
good torque at low revs so it would be much more comfortable to have longer
transmission (or 6-speed tranny) and this would not cause dramatic decrease
on acceleration.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Of course, as I've said before, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a fun car make.

So true - If it did, i'd be driving something else....
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Looks like Mazda North American had to compromise a bit to get the car to be more quiet and comfortable.

Looking at the ratio, the car should accelerate decently but will fall short of the Accord and Altima.

However, if Mazda sells it right, they do not need to glorified numbers rather concentrate on driving ectascy.

0-100km/h is not the only thing that gets me going. If it can get me up to that speed within 10sec, it would be enough. You have to remember you only go up to 100km/h once and cruise at that speed or near there. The rest of the time you will be changing lanes and taking corners. :) And I am sure this is where the car will shine.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

QUOTE
Originally posted by hieppo
Looking at the ratio, the car should accelerate decently but will fall short of the Accord and Altima.

However, if Mazda sells it right, they do not need to glorified numbers rather concentrate on driving ectascy.[/b]
The Accord is quick, but the obvious weight transfer from front to back was a bit yucky - perhaps it should actually have less torque!

QUOTE
0-100km/h is not the only thing that gets me going.  If it can get me up to that speed within 10sec, it would be enough.  You have to remember you only go up to 100km/h once and cruise at that speed or near there.  The rest of the time you will be changing lanes and taking corners.  :)  And I am sure this is where the car will shine.[/b]
That's what it's all about!:D

I understand the basic concept: Torque at high RPMs is good because then you can take advantage with gearing, but please explain all the numbers.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Another thing I forgot to add.

I sincerely hope Mazda does not gear the car to appease those who are obsessed with 0-60 times. MANY manufacturers fall victim to this, which looks great on paper, but in real life actually hurts overall acceleration as you never just stop at 60mph.

As an example, the Toyota Celica GTS has a VERY high strung engine. The way Toyota has geared this car is that when you shift from 1-2 and 2-3, where keeping the car on the hot cam is key, the gears are spaced too wide, and the car falls off its power cam. Toyota has geared it so that getting to 60 doesn't require a shift to 3rd, which would add more time. However, in real life, when you have to shift to 3rd anyway when going up to freeway speeds, this actually makes the car slower. You have to go to 3rd anyway, so why not keep it on the hot cam during all your acceleration? 0-70 times would be noticably faster. However, from a marketing standpoint, Toyota knows people are obsessed with 0-60, and optimized the car to do well that way.

Acura, on the other hand, with its Celica comptetition RSX Type S stays fully on its hot cam if shifted at redline. I am pretty sure you still do not have to shift to 3rd to hit 60mph, but having the car always on the hot cam is great for going past 60mph. The way Acura has geared the car may not be the most optimal for 0-60, but in real world acceleration, it is noticably better than the Celica GTS.

So, I guess what I'm saying, is that if 0-60 times come in a little slower than the competition, perhaps Mazda has actually done a better job of optimizing gear ratios that work best in the real world by ensuring that at each gear shift the car stays in the meat of its powerband, rather than gearing for some silly arbitrary acceleration speed, like some competitors may have done.

Food for thought......
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

Jerome, your hope for optimal gearing by Mazda sounds an awful lot like a Miata...
 

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Replying to Topic 'Question about Mazda 6 manual tranny gearing'

QUOTE
Originally posted by Jerome81


            Another thing I forgot to add.

I sincerely hope Mazda does not gear the car to appease those who are obsessed with 0-60 times.  MANY manufacturers fall victim to this, which looks great on paper, but in real life actually hurts overall acceleration as you never just stop at 60mph.

As an example, the Toyota Celica GTS has a VERY high strung engine.  The way Toyota has geared this car is that when you shift from 1-2 and 2-3, where keeping the car on the hot cam is key, the gears are spaced too wide, and the car falls off its power cam.  Toyota has geared it so that getting to 60 doesn't require a shift to 3rd, which would add more time.  However, in real life, when you have to shift to 3rd anyway when going up to freeway speeds, this actually makes the car slower.  You have to go to 3rd anyway, so why not keep it on the hot cam during all your acceleration?  0-70 times would be noticably faster.  However, from a marketing standpoint, Toyota knows people are obsessed with 0-60, and optimized the car to do well that way.

Acura, on the other hand, with its Celica comptetition RSX Type S stays fully on its hot cam if shifted at redline.  I am pretty sure you still do not have to shift to 3rd to hit 60mph, but having the car always on the hot cam is great for going past 60mph.  The way Acura has geared the car may not be the most optimal for 0-60, but in real world acceleration, it is noticably better than the Celica GTS.

So, I guess what I'm saying, is that if 0-60 times come in a little slower than the competition, perhaps Mazda has actually done a better job of optimizing gear ratios that work best in the real world by ensuring that at each gear shift the car stays in the meat of its powerband, rather than gearing for some silly arbitrary acceleration speed, like some competitors may have done.

Food for thought......[/b]



This is a very good point, I'm glad you brought that up. It will be interesting to see the 0-60, 0-70 and 0-100 times for the car. I'm assuming the V6 has asa flat a torque curve as the I-4, which means they should make good use of the gears. given the current gear ratios for the V6, how do you feel real life performance will be?
 
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