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Discussion Starter #1
I was reading through my latest Import Tuner, and they had an article on what you need ot set up a car for drifting. Naturally they mention LSD's. Well they also named a few companies that produce LSD's, and I e-mailed them. I got a quick response from kAAZ USA and this is the exchange:

My e-mail to them:
Hi, my name is Colin and I am a moderator for www.mazda6club.com. Many of our members are approaching their warranty's end and are looking at how to make some considerable power or have started racing. Through all of our discussions, we always end up on the point that our V6 engines have no LSD to put whatever power we can make to the ground. So we are curious if you would have any interest in developing a product for our cars. Hope to hear from you soon.
And their response:
Hi Colin,
Thanks for your inquiry.
We actually at one point was about to produce the Mazda 6 units but due to
lack of interest or decision change at Mazda Speed, the project died couple of
years ago. They wanted a clutch type design over the torsen type they used for
road racing one season. So Mazda Speed sent us a sample open diff and axles
for us to design.  Everything was going fine but project got cancelled.
We still have the sample unit so for us to do the drawing and production is
matter of time. The only problem is that Kaaz Japan will not make any new model
unless they can get a batch order of 30 units initially. As Kaaz USA we cannot
carry all 30 units as inventory.
If you can get a group of 20 buyers together, we don't mind stocking 10 units
as our inventory. The lead time from start to finish will be approximately 90 days.
The unit price will be between $950 ~ $1,100.
Best Regards,
Ray / Kaaz USA
Now I e-mailed Ray back asking if they'd be able to produce a torsen instead of clutch type for us, and am waiting for a response. So what do we think? Would some sponsors be willing to shoulder the burden of a few extra units to help us hit the goal?
 

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$1000 for a torsen would be well worth the money, but $1000 for a clutch-type would be debatable depending on your goal. There's a similar thread on 6tech for a clutch-type limited slip differential that would sell for less (as low as $599) despite requiring less buyers.

See if you can negotiate them to 15 for the group buy. That'd still be hard to get, but that'd be a little more realistic. If it is a torsen, I think I may go around kicking the ass of those who run anything more than a CP-E intake without an LSD until the 20 buyer limit is met.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
eric, MTX and ATX LSD would be a different thing, this is for the MTX.
 

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I understand how both LSD designs work, but what would the clutch type have over the torsen? Also how long will this clutch-type LSD last before needing servicing?
 

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I'm interested, especially since they already have the open differential. If this falls through, perhaps we should try and get the open diff from them for production from another company.

Also, will they do development on axels as well, or is that wishful think? If not, perhaps we can take them off their hands and send them to The Driveshaft Shop. It will definately be tough to get 20, even though this is needed for any v6 owners wanting to put down any power over the stock power rating.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Maybe we can get in contact with Mazdaspeed and get them back on the project even? This would probably bring the price down, though I don't know how to go about pushing Mazda for it.

z6speed, I will inquire about the axles in my next e-mail.
 

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Thanks. I have some small contacts with Mazda over here, but they probably won't be of much help regarding this. I already asked for a stock differential and engine block a little while back, but they said they only had parts for the RX8 in their Northern NJ testing facility (that was back in February). The other rep I know (who gave me the head of testing) is more about the marketing side, he managed getting those show Mazda 6's we see (the blue one at the shows last year - HIN's he got to drive around). As well as getting the Mazda 3 at the Philly Auto Show completed and presented as a prize. I'll do what I can, but I'll probably won't get to far. Goodluck on your end. (quick bump).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm going to see if I can't scrounge up a contact out here in Irvine while I'm at it...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OK, so people have been wondering what the pros/cons are of the clutch type, so Ray from kAAZ sent me a little bit of info to share with you:
Here are some pros and cons of the clutch type and torsen type.
Torsen Type
Pros: Ease of maintenance (oil change). Less effective and aggressive than
the clutch type so easier and safer for daily driving use. This is one reason,
why many automobile manufactures use torsen design as optional lsd unit.
Good for real tight track usage like autocrossing.
Cons: Not active or effective when one tire looses traction. For example,
when you hit the bump at the apex and the tire lifts up, the unit act same
as open diff. Both tires need to have some traction in order for the unit to
be active as lsd.  When the gears wear out, you need to replace the whole
unit.

Clutch Type
Pros: Ease of maintenance (oil change).  More effective than torsen type design. This is why most hard core race drivers and street performance drivers prefer the clutch type design. This is also the reason most aftermarket brand such as Mugen, Nismo, Mazdaspeed, Kaaz, Cusco, ATS and few other brands use the clutch type design. The unit is active even when tire looses traction. This is the main reason many rally guys and hard core road racing guys prefer clutch type. The unit is rebuidable at reasonable cost. Overhaul kit costs $275~$295. Depending on the usage, the clutch life varies but most street user (occasional track user) gets somewhere between 50K ~95K before overhaul. We have many users on the street with more than 50K miles and still enjoying the unit. Just like engine, frequent oil change is the key to long life. Clutch type is generally stronger structurally and also has no centralized heat spot like the torsen design. Every internal parts are available individually as parts.
Cons: Minor chattering noise when turning very slow like in a driveway or parking lot. The unit will eventually require overhaul.

The choice is really up to the driver preference and their vehicle usage.
Both designs are very good and effective.
Most sports oriented drivers seem to prefer the clutch design. Drivers who wants some mild traction for daily usage and  occasional track usage prefers the torsen design.
Best Regards,
Ray / Kaaz USA
I also double checked to make sure the transmission he has from Mazda is the V6 and he said he thought thats what Mazda sent. So is there any way to easily tell between the two transmissions by looking at them?
 

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More effective than torsen type design.
Granted, I'm not a limited slip expert, but:

A clutch-type differential would engage any time you turn. At all. You could circle a parking lot looking for empty spaces at 5mph and you're still putting wear on it. I'd guess the pressure it puts on the tires doesn't feel good through the steering wheel, either. A clutch-type wouldn't be a terrible idea in a rear drive car, but when you've got your steering wheels locked and wanting to turn the same speed, I suspect you'll run into steering feel issues.

Meanwhile, having the inside tire wanting to spin faster than it should (from the clutch trying to match shaft speeds) absolutely must be detrimental to handling- it'll naturally try to prevent the car from steering! The solution to this would be to lighten the clutch, but that defeats the purpose of having it. Again, I'm not an expert on these things, but think about it.

A torsen will work largely like an open differential during normal driving. It'll send 3-5 times more torque the the tire with traction, which means you have to have at least 1/3rd to 1/5th of your traction on the inside tire. In a front-drive car, you should always have this up there. The rear tires may lift up easily, but not the front. I don't see this requirement as being much of a drawback. If you hit a bump big enough to send the front tires in the air, you've got other things to worry about.
 

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If the clutch-type chatters at low speed does that mean that the wear would be minimal? Although I think I would find that rather annoying. Any news of if they will make a Torsen for us?
 

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I'm game either way. better than an open diff. what type of LSD comes on an srt-4?
 

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I've just done some reading on the KAAZ website and it states that most of their LSD's are 1.5 way. Which means that you get full lock up under acceleration and only half while braking. While a 2-way LSD will give you full lock up while braking and accelerating. But why would you want your wheels to be locked together during braking, will this slow the car faster?


Edit: I found some interesting links:

http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/article_kaazvstorsen.htm

http://www.miata.net/garage/vlsd.html (not totally relevant, but some good info)
 

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1.5 way lsd fully locks on acceleration and some on deceleration for more control on cornering and the 2 way lsd fully locks on acceleration and deceleration, which will just make you slide everywhere when you turn.

Below is a thread from a drift forum in regards to the AE86. At the bottom they speak about 1, 1.5, and 2-way lsds. These guys would have a much better explanation then myself, because I am still learning a lot as time goes on.

http://www.drifting.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8520.html


Edit: More info (info taken from the link below)...

"1-Way, 2-Way, 1.5-Way.......... What Does It Mean?

Some manufacturers make LSD's in different configurations and are commonly classified as 1 way, 2way, and 1.5 way. This designation reflects the design of the cam groove which enables the LSD to function differently under different loads. A 1 way differential means that the cam is shaped in such way as to have positive lock only when accelerating. The 2 way is constructed in a way to have positive lock motion in either acceleration or deceleration. The 1.5 way is a new term used to describe the 2 way cam which enables different lock up rates during the two directional forces. The 1.5 distribute positive lock stronger under acceleration than when decelerating. The 1.5 way can provide more forgiving balance when braking than a full 2 way setup, although it is less effective for true racing applications, it provides easier operation for beginners in throttle off conditions. It is also effective for front drive cars which need extra stability during braking"

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pa...rential_101.htm



Some more good info from Cuco's website...
Three ways to set your CUSCO limited slip differentials : one way, 1.5 way and two way.
・ One way L.S.D. specially suited for front wheel drive cars and 4WD car front axles.
Activates under acceleration, and acts as a true LSD when the throttle is off. A great chance for improved lap times.
A CUSCO original design.
・ 1.5 way LSD
Activates under acceleration while the understeer is less than on the 2 way LSD.Recommended for drivers having difficulty with 2 way LSD understeer and one way LSD braking.
・ Two way LSD
Recommended on the rear axle for rear drive cars. Activates on both acceleration and deceleration. Recommended for those who
 

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Discussion Starter #18
No luck on the torsen, kAAZ doesn't make them, but I think the clutch type sounds find for what we need regardless. The servicing every 50K or maybe more to the tune for $300 isn't horrendous to me.
 

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It would be nice to hear from other FWD drivers about their experience with KAAZ differentials. They have quite a few applications, including the Focus. With that said, let me be the second peron to say you'll never get 20 people to commit $1000 dollars for this.
 
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