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Discussion Starter #81
Any disadvantage to tuning a car with only 250 miles on it? Love the car but more usable power would be nice also.
That depends how a new engine takes run after run at WOT to a higher redline. There is a lot of disagreement on modern engine break in. The manual says take it easy until 1000km (600 miles). So pressuming you get to 600 miles before you start the tuning process you should be okay.

I will say the more you drive the car stock the more you will appreciate the tune LoL. But that isn't a good reason to wait and you know it!
 

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Ive tuned/modded every vehicle ive owned for the past 20 years. From mild to wild, and this car will be no different. Ill check my ECU and see if it is supported and if it is ill jump in on this. I don't have to data log right away I'm sure I can wait a few months and then start.
 

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I think the problem for the Group Buy is Shotyme was organizing it and his car isn't supported.

Somebody else needs to take the lead by PMing Shotyme to pick up where he left off to and work with an Admin to help guide through the official GB process on this forum.

With 15ish there is no reason to wait any longer to get it going.

And as soon as this group buy gets going I would think there is enough demand to follow it up with another group buy. Because there could be quite a few people who want to see the first group's results as a whole before commiting to this, or are not able to round up the needed funds in only a week.
My car is supported. I have just been swamped at work.

Epifan is find with the group buy, but the Tactrix buy will be more complicated if we still want to do it. I just got my last bit of details from them.


So for a group buy of the Tactrix Openport 2.0, we would have to make a single payment via bank transfer. They will only ship to one address. Whomever gets the package would have to ship it to everyone that was included. They will ship 2 day Fedex. So if we paid them today, it would arrive to the single address on Monday. Then it would have to shipped from that person and probably take another 2-3 days depending on the shipping.

So Without the group buy, you are looking at paying $177.65. If you live in California, then you have to pay sales tax on top of that. If we proceed with the group buy, then it would be $159 which is $152 for the hardware + $7ish shipping with USPS priority flat rate envelope.

So if we go this route, we need a date that we will go through the purchase and a designated person to receive all of the money, do the bank transfer, receive the items, and then ship it to the parties who paid. If we do this, I think paypal would be the ideal method for that person to receive the money so they can make the bank transfer to tactrix.

I don't have an objection to being the middleman, but I am not the most active. If someone else would like to be the middle man (even a moderator) then that is fine with me.

Regardless who does it, we need to have a set date for payment to be due to the middle man and that person determine best way to receive funds
 

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I recommend we get our own Tactrix and coordinate whatever is necessary for Epifan. This allows those who want the "personal" (as opposed to "Lite") version to obtain it without problems.

Since Orange Virus is here, there's no problem there either.

We're talking about $20 difference here folks; between PayPal fees and the shipping costs it's probably more like $10 -- if that.

What say everyone else?
I just asked Epifan his preferred way for us to go through with the purchase.

In terms of the tactrix, yeah, it is a big hassle. Even the rep I talked to stated most do not do the group but because it is a hassle on their end.

So the difference without paypal fees is $20. Bank transfers to your paypal account are free, then to another person is free. However credit card through paypal is 3% of the transaction which would be roughly $5.

So I'm down for whatever the group wants to do. If you live in California, don't forget you have to add sales tax on your purchase. I tried to get them to give us a coupon code, but they were not feeling that option. :surprise:
 

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Hey everyone just to make it clear, you DON'T need mazdaediit personal, you only need LITE to get tuned.

Personal will allow you access to your ECU maps / tables.

I highly advise against getting personal and playing with the maps and settings unless you are 100% confident you know what you're looking at. Some tables may *seem* simple, but have a very dramatic effect and not do what you think it does.

I don't mean to put it harshly but just so we are clear if you mess your engine up or your tune, or adjust a table that makes the car impossible to start it's on you. These ECUs are extremely intelligent, and very small adjustments can make very drastic changes.
I do require that anyone who gets personal does not try any of their own tunes, or adustments or anything whatsoever while they are being tuned by me. I don't want to sound mean but that's protecting both of us.
 

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Discussion Starter #86 (Edited)
I'm a born tinkerer, but in hindsight it probably wasn't worth it to get the personal version. I can't see the tables on OVT's tunes unless he unlocks them for me (which he is willing to do) and even then there are some tables I still can't edit per OVT (not sure which ones those are.

I'm not sure I'll be able to make any changes of consequence without really jacking things up given the complexity of the interactions with all the different maps, unless OVT is willing ot make some tutorial of what the different maps do with cautions and provide some Q&A for me when I need it.
 

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Any way you could do it again and let them know that possibly 15 or more purchases will come from it, and see IF they would generate a new coupon code for 15%? I know we'd ALL appreciate that.

:grin2:
Both of us that make up the small company of Tactrix like discounts too :) but we generally only give out discounts for bulk purchases because we're passing along the savings of not processing many small CC/PayPal transactions and we're not having to ship individual orders which saves us time. We generally don't give out individual coupon codes because the Openport is the only thing we sell, unlike a retailer who is buying in bulk and for them to arrange a group buy, they just buy in larger quantity from their wholesaler. A 15% discount to you is a huge chunk for us because that 15% of the total price is a much larger percentage of our profit after paying for parts, assembly, building overhead, insurance, development time, support time, etc. Even just in terms of parts and labor we're paying quite a bit to produce this item, which is done in the USA, partly in Washington and partly in our office here in California.

All that said, we appreciate this show of support from the Mazda community. To say thanks we'll refund the shipping charges for this group buy. If you've already placed your order, send me an email to support at tactrix dot com with your user name on the list and your order number, and I'll issue you a refund of shipping cost. If you haven't already ordered, in the 'notes' field you'll see during the checkout process on our site, include your username as listed on the group by list, and I'll process your shipping refund from there.


I doubt they would be nice enough to give me any discount.
We were pretty nice to you when you contacted us last year. I'll try to be meaner next time ;) We gave you a discount in the past for a small bulk order because we like to help tuners grow their business. This ecosystem doesn't function without good tuners to work with people needing custom tunes. We see our success linked to yours. Unlike companies who sell more expensive products which give them the margins to grow a large reseller network through incentive discounts, we don't work with those same margins. Most people will buy just part of an exhaust system for several hundreds of dollars from a retailer who is buying them for much less in wholesale from the manufacturer. A group buy for that retailer is just a matter of buying in greater quantity from the wholesaler and moving it all through the pipleline. We've never been a huge fan of that sort of network that makes it necessary for consumers to scour the internet looking for the best deal from middlemen. We try to sell to the end user at what we think is a great price. That retailer is also hoping that you'll be buying from them again. Unlike that situation, most people will be buying from us just once, and, unlike the exhaust reseller we will likely be providing you a lot more support as you need updated device drivers during Windows updates or when you move over to a new WRX. The one purchase gives you years of support from us. The hardware sales make it possible for us to do that.

I've seen lately they are going through forums making rants about people buying the fake tactrix cables, which is inderstandable, but they go to the extreme at times.
As far as rants for people buying fake Tactrix cables. It's not just a fake cable, but it's that the fake cables are also using our software, firmware, and device drivers that we've developed ourselves. All of that work is funded by the sales of our hardware. If we don't sell the hardware, we can't support our business and provide for our families. I'd probably disagree with the categorization of ranting, but we do defend our product when people post links to counterfeit hardware using our company name in public forums. If someone else was selling Orange Virus Tuning files in a forum, I think you'd probably spend the time to defend your hard work as well right?

-Mike
Tactrix
 

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We were pretty nice to you when you contacted us last year. I'll try to be meaner next time ;)
I think you'd probably spend the time to defend your hard work as well right?

-Mike
Tactrix
Absolutely and I do defend my work :) I had just meant you guys argued with people who didn't understand and people thought you guys were taking it too far. I completely understand, also I meant I didn't think you'd give me ANOTHER discount since I already got one from you guys. thanks

( someone actually did get caught selling my tunes and I went a little over the edge haha so totally understand)
 

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Discussion Starter #89 (Edited)
Mazdaedit runs on Windows xp through windows 8 per Epifan. I'm actually using Windows Vista the unicorn OS, but no it doesn't poop skittles, it just poops poop.

It does not rerquire the Tatrix at the beginning of the mazdaedit setup process, but is required to connect to the ecu to essentially register you ECU with Epifan.

Each mazdaedit license is specific to you, your computer and your ecu/vin. It is not specific to the Tatrix device itself. As previously discussed the mazdaedit license can be transfered to a different computer in the first year of use.

The tatric port does have a slightly glitchy USB interface. I found out the hard way. As long as you follow the specific sequence in the instructions of hooking everything up (waiting with some patience to ensure each step is completed successfully) it is pretty stable. Not sure how that would translate to a mac machine
 

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Discussion Starter #90

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Exactly.

Remember that the first requirement to sell a vehicle is that the powertrain must meet emissions standards. The manufacturer can do that however he wants, but he has to meet them.

In the case of HC (unburned fuel) and CO (inefficiently burned fuel) improving combustion also results in lower emissions. In this regard the two are complimentary. Unfortunately getting CO and HC low enough to pass without a catalyst has been impossible for many years, as the current standards are (and have been for a long time) near-zero emissions of both.

Now we have a problem though because a catalyst requires oxygen; it's a redux (reduction-oxidation) agent. Stochiometric combustion of course would usually leave you with ZERO excess oxygen. Early ways of dealing with this before modern closed-loop operation included air pumps that injected atmospheric air into the exhaust; they proved to be a maintenance problem and they also add parasitic load (bad for fuel economy.) Now we have oxygen sensors that tell the ECU exactly what is going on in that regard and allow for enough oxygen to be present for the catalyst to work. Thus, modern engines are able to get rid of the air pump.

So now we've solved that problem but in doing it we created a new one, because the maximum possible efficiency of a heat engine is defined by the temperature of combustion less that of the exhaust. In other words, the hotter it runs internally the more efficient it can be, assuming that heat can be harvested via expansion. Efficiency, of course, means both higher output AND better fuel economy. But higher flame temperatures in the presence of excess oxygen (necessary for the catalyst to work!), which is good for efficiency, means you get lots of NOx, which is BAD.

Thus engine designers are forced to detune, both by reducing maximum efficiency (read: output!) and in addition "poisoning" the flame front to lower its temperature via EGR. The latter is something engine designers wish they didn't have to do because EGR inherently causes deposit formation in the intake tract, and that's bad news. But there's no other good source of oxygen-poor gas available to depress the flame front temperature so it's become a standard part of the toolkit. Note that gas turbines (e.g. used for generating electricity) use the equivalent of EGR as well -- and for the same reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #92 (Edited)
Excellent -- that is good information as I might add a cat-back in the future, once there are enough people out there with them where I can take a ride in a car with it and see what it does to cabin noise.
How loud it is depends on which exhaust You choose and if you have OVT adjust the fuel delivery timing. I used to have to avoid cruising at 2k cause the drone would pound my head, but since the last tune that changed the fuel delivery timing so the fuel burn is more complete before the exhaust valve opens it REALLY tookthe edge off the exhaust dBs. I don't mind cruising at 2k anymore. Who would have thought?

I really think a highs flow exhaust really does improve real would driving. In some way even more than the tune (throttle reponse and low end tug) and in other ways much less (true torque and power gains).
 

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Discussion Starter #93 (Edited)
Fuel economy comparison test was a dud.

Well, I tried to do the fuel economy test, but I think it isn't going to work. i don't have a long enough flat stretch of road to get an accurate instantaneous mpg reading.

On the latest tune number 6 i got 48.2 mpg going north on I-15 at 60mph, 44.2mpg going south on the same stretch. At 75mph I got 48.6mpg going north and 31.1mpg going south on that same stretch as for 60mph.

There was traffic and the spring wind gusts are variable so with only about 100-200 meters of flat stretch of road and a 2 second average for the instant mpg reading that doesn't like to update for minor changes (anything less than about 4mpg change), it's a crapshoot; even with the cruise control on like I had.

So I didn't bother to flash back to stock and do the same pain in the butt back and forth test. Sorry but i did try.

The one thing i did learn is I found an easy way to replicate the power cut for hard shifts with the mtx. If i shift at redline from 2nd gear to 3rd gear it happens like clockwork. so i will datalog that and see if OVT can figure out what is going on. It's on my list of objectives for the tune and so far it hasn't been resolved.

I did datalog cruise on tune 6 so ovt can see if the fuel timing changes had any noticeable effect on things or if i'm just imagining things.
 

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I think you're hitting the rev limiter on the shift; I ran into it last night running some baseline stuff on Torque (to get the logging sorted, since I can log performance data over Bluetooth without a cable, and I have a VERY fast adapter unlike the "common" $20 ELM pieces of trash.)

Shift a couple hundred RPM short of redline and see if it happens rather than running right into it. The issue might actually be a matter of tach response lag (that is, the needle is behind the engine a bit) in which case you actually are at redline when it gets hit.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
I think you're hitting the rev limiter on the shift; I ran into it last night running some baseline stuff on Torque (to get the logging sorted, since I can log performance data over Bluetooth without a cable, and I have a VERY fast adapter unlike the "common" $20 ELM pieces of trash.)

Shift a couple hundred RPM short of redline and see if it happens rather than running right into it. The issue might actually be a matter of tach response lag (that is, the needle is behind the engine a bit) in which case you actually are at redline when it gets hit.
Well I don't think that is it because I've hit and not hit the rev limiter and it did the same thing bogging in the next gear. I'm not imagining it. See the acceleration notes from car and drivers road test here
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2014-mazda-6-i-sport2014-mazda-6-i-sport.pdf

It seems to be adependent on how fast the revs come down in the next gear. It's almost like the ecu looses t rack so it pulls back the timing. The other possibility would be its inadvertently setting off the knock sensor but that seems less likely. If it is either there is nothing to be done. I've heard of ecus doing spark smoothing which can hurt drag strip time during shifts, but not sure if tha tis it or if it is even adjustable.
 

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I might a well be reading Russian w/ all the posts in this thread. This stuff is WAY over my head.

So while I did sign up for wanting the tune, I can't say I'm not nervous trying to do it on my own.
 

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I might a well be reading Russian w/ all the posts in this thread. This stuff is WAY over my head.

So while I did sign up for wanting the tune, I can't say I'm not nervous trying to do it on my own.
OVT really knows his stuff and he's very dedicated to helping everyone out.

Just take it one step at a time, and check out all the info I've posted in the official GB thread :)

You'll be fine, and if not, just come back here with your questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
I might a well be reading Russian w/ all the posts in this thread. This stuff is WAY over my head.

So while I did sign up for wanting the tune, I can't say I'm not nervous trying to do it on my own.
OVT really knows his stuff and he's very dedicated to helping everyone out.

Just take it one step at a time, and check out all the info I've posted in the official GB thread :)

You'll be fine, and if not, just come back here with your questions.
Actually please go here with questions on how to do your part of the tuning process:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/343905-mazdaedit-tatrix-orange-virus-tuning-how-technical-supoprt-help-discussion.html (Byakuya can you correct my mispelling of "support" in the thread Title?)

and we will all try to help each other out.

I want to stay on the parameters of the tune and results in this thread.

Otherwise we are going to see another wave of posts about how to do this stuff correctly that will overwhelm that discussion, just like the group buy did.
 

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Actually please go here with questions on how to do your part of the tuning process:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/343905-mazdaedit-tatrix-orange-virus-tuning-how-technical-supoprt-help-discussion.html (Byakuya can you correct my mispelling of "support" in the thread Title?)

and we will all try to help each other out.

I want to stay on the parameters of the tune and results in this thread.

Otherwise we are going to see another wave of posts about how to do this stuff correctly that will overwhelm that discussion, just like the group buy did.
So to clarify - You'd like an official GB thread, a How-To thread, and a Results thread?

GB Thread just to let people sign up.

How-To to help people get underway.

Results for the end product/discussion.

I see the need for the results to be separated, but if either the GB or the How-To become "dead" then I'll combine them. I see no harm in letting people ask how things can be done in the GB thread, but certainly if we don't separate the Results.

I've stickied them all for now, we'll see what comes of it. I only say this because sometimes too many threads can be a bad thing :)
 
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