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Okay here is a run base file vs Latest adjustment.
Solar started logging on my first base file I sent him, not stock. So I would think stock would not be this smooth.

This is the UP HILL vs UP HILL (Base vs Latest). These numbers shown will be LOWER than what it truly is because it is going up hill.

adjusted for actual air temp and pressure.
Impressive, that's roughly a 40 WHP gain there! Granted these are not actual Dyno numbers but still, proof this mod is doing more performance wise than anything else out there.
 

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ok, i entered all the properties for my car i ran it against my last datalog. there's a lot of blah blah technical variables but reality is this is two 2nd gear runs from idle to redline or close to it, once up a hill and once down it with a stop light in between.

i wouldn't concern yourselves with the actual numbers as much as what the plots are saying. so about all I can take away from this is:

  • it's making more horespower than torque as i was feeling
  • the torque is like a mesa in arizona which contributes significant;y to real world acceleration
  • Peark hp is occuring at the factory redline
For best result we need to find the gear that is closer to 1:1 with engine speed and then to make a pull in this gear from 1000rpm to redline.

Then you put this in Virtual dyno

a 2nd gear pull will make more whp since the gearing is shorter
 

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I'm still going to get my car on a real dyno jet at the same time as a bone stock equivalent of my car. It's the only way to avoid arguing over what's real and what isn't, which I'm sick of doing.

Any idea when you'll be doing that, Solar? What's holding you back from getting dyno results now?

I agree that all of the anecdotal evidence in this thread looks very encouraging, but that an actual dyno comparison against a stock 6 is what's needed to unequivocally prove the results.

Thanks for blazing the trail that you have. Judging by the interest expressed in the tune, a lot of us will benefit from it. I haven't bought my 6 yet, but will be picking up a 2016 model later this year. I'm hoping that OVT will have a compatible tune for later cars and any kinks sorted out by the time I'm ready. The price is a bargain for the gain.
 

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Thanks for all the interest guys.

I do want to make one thing clear about it. The point of these tunes aren't to go just for raw HP and TQ gain. My intention with these tunes were to clean up the stock maps, make it more efficient, and give you some more power at the same time when possible. Kinda like what a stock tune should be.

I focus for drivability with power when you need it. how the car feels to you. Sure, I can do a tune purely for HP/TQ.. but do you also want to give up that great MPG? that "stock like" drivability.

I work with my customers for exactly what they want. Solar didn't specifically say " hey I want MAX POWER!!" No, he explained his issues with how his car was running, what the stock tune was doing and I dialed it in to his requests.

Now this means not every car is going to respond like his, he requested some things most people don't.

If you want as much possible HP and TQ, just let me know when you get your tune. Not a problem, but 93+ octane is required, and just know that a severe decrease in MPG is a very real possibility.

I just want don't want people to get their hopes up like dang 50HP gain! 40HP gain! 10 HP gain :( ... I have some customers who dyno'd only making 7-10HP more (non skyactiv) but were very please with the tune because of how much better it made the car drive.

I'm willing to work with you guys on whatever it is you want. Like I said in the previous post, you get my full support for as long as you own the car, I'm not going to tune your car and run away when it doesn't satisfy you.

As for the 2015-2016 ECU that aren't currently supported, I have no idea what the logic, tables, and calibrations look like, so it would probably take me at least a couple weeks to hash out all the tables I need, the logic on what/ when / why the ecu does what it does.

As an example I spent about 3 months doing just that on the skyactiv 2.0L testing an endless amount of tables, cam timing settings, etc just to get a good BASE calibration. But I'm far from that now :)

I'm fairly confident I have all the kinks worked out for tunes, it's the software itself that's a little kinky. However, Solars ECU for example, had a few AFR tables that were completely different than the sky 2.0, and CX5 2.5L G, So it took me a little bit to find these Fuel tables / multipliers. That's really the only issue being ran into with these tunes, it takes me a bit of time, Unfortunately I'm pretty much the only person really hashing out these hexes to give the best possible calibrations, unlike a company like Cobb where they have a team of highly trained reverse engineers that could probably do IDA coding / engineering in their sleep, or ECUTek..HUGE company, LOTS of custom code in their ROMS... I just one person guys please understand.

(honestly I kind of hope it stays that way though, kinda a "niche" market, the minute a big company picks this stuff up.. poof goes me)
another book post sorry!
 

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as you know our 2014+ 6 (and later CX5s) have a WOT switch, do MTX also have the mechanical switch or is it ATX only? and how do you go about tuning it? based on what i know you have to hit the switch to gain full power, and when doing so it will kick down to the lowest safe gear, even in manual mode, I know some people had trouble dynoing it due to this.
 

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as you know our 2014+ 6 (and later CX5s) have a WOT switch, do MTX also have the mechanical switch or is it ATX only? and how do you go about tuning it? based on what i know you have to hit the switch to gain full power, and when doing so it will kick down to the lowest safe gear, even in manual mode, I know some people had trouble dynoing it due to this.
No, there is no KICKDOWN button since it is manual, only reason for that button, as you know is to go to the earliest gear possible to give the maximum power.

It should not be an issue regardless because the moment you put the accelerator to the floor where you feel you,re able to click the button, that is WOT. You do not need to click the button to go WOT. Try it, stay in 3rd gear and floor it without pressing a button and then go in 3rd gear in the range where it will not allow the ATX to downshift and it will feel the exact same in terms of power.
 

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holy.... that's a 40HP gain under load?! Is that with exhaust+intake or tune vs stock only?... sweet jeebus. That's in the territory of most replacement cars I had been looking at.... ~210HP at the flywheel...
 

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Discussion Starter #48
holy.... that's a 40HP gain under load?! Is that with exhaust+intake or tune vs stock only?... sweet jeebus. That's in the territory of most replacement cars I had been looking at.... ~210HP at the flywheel...
It's my car with intake and exhaust on the nearly stock tune plus OVT adjusted valve timing vs. the 5th tune which was prior to the A/F fine tuning OVT did on the sixth tune which I haven't datalogged yet.

I would have expected my car to already be at 200hp and 200lb-ft of torque at the flywheel in the state of the car for the first plot, so I'm not sure I believe being even close 240hp and 240 lb-ft of torque until I get on a real dyno, but the gains are not incremental like they were adding the intake and exhaust by themselves. The tune is transformational.

I went WOT with my kids in the car briefly in 2nd gear over the weekend up a mild incline. I'd never told them I made the car faster,but without being prompted my 4 year old daughter said "Wow this car is fast like a cheetah! I'm going to call it the Cheetah from now on, not the silver mazda." Who can question the honesty and senses of a 4 year old girl? LoL
 

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I still just can't believe the enthusiast's brand would leave so much on the table.. WHY MAZDA.. WHY?!

Not gonna lie, I'm acting shocked and in disbelief, but I called it earlier when you were describing it. Essentially the same gains I noted in the formula with full bolt ons... lol
 

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flat-line that torque curve.. who wouldn't? Heck I don't even care about MPG, I'm already down to 28 anyways. *shrug*


BTW solar, I was thinking about that cheetah reference earlier, and that choice is excellent give that girl a huge thumbs-up from me, LOL. Cheetahs top out at ~60, so does the 6 in 2nd, LOL. Now if only it would do it in under 3 seconds... :p
 

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Discussion Starter #51 (Edited)
totally off topic... something I watched about Cheetahs, Do you know why they can't run long? Their bodies start overheating.. It's been said if they don't stop running after a minute or two they will cook their brains. crazy!
I don't think that is too far off topic. If people plan on getting the tune and other performance mods and don't improve engine bay cooling they may be in for a world of hurt with some hard backroad driving in summer heat.

I've already got my SRI sucking cold air but I'm going to wrap the rest of it in nomex covered in foil.

I'm also going to replace the front grill with an open hex mesh to improve air flow to the radiator (you could also just open up the blocked off louveres on the upper and lower center grills), and I somehow have to figure out how to add equivalent venting out the back of the bay so the extra air has someplace to go both at the front windshield and the under engine aero panels.

I don't know what to do about the tranny, other than try to keep the engine bay temps down with venting. I'm not sure I want to hassle with a transmission oil cooler.

Also per OVT the ECU has spark timing temperature correction tables based on intake and coolant temps. It can pull back quite a bit of spark timing advance (and subsequently power) when you start running hot, irrespective of whether you are encountering knock or not.
 

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I have been wondering solar about the steering. With the added power, hp and torque , do you still feel like you have control over the car with the electric steering?
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Torque steer is not bad in second gear. At WOT in first with one hand on the shifter ready to hit second it is tough to keep control of the steering wheel, as it really is pulling the wheel around. I'm not sure if it is just pulling in one direction or if it is just the fact that it is just beyond the limits of traction from 5k on up and every time a tire slips a little it jerks. I do drive with traction control off which may be making it worse. But if you have an auto with two hands on the wheel I doubt any of this would be a problem.

There are some angled dips for storm drains at the curb on my 2nd geat WOT route that on the later tunes the curb side tire on the dip breaks traction a little and that can yank on the wheel pretty good, but in general this chassis has no problems with this much power. It is very much under control.

For reference my suspension wheels and tires and brakes are all stock right now, I just have a light car which stiffens it up a little bit. Brakes still seem adequate but I did have to me more conscientious about watching my speed when the power bumped up, it was too easy to be going faster than I thought I was approaching the next traffic light. I will likely need new brakes sooner than without the tune...
 

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Hey guys important post regarding supported / tunable ECUs.
Epifan has checked, and with all these ECUs being checked by ID..

here is an easier way for confirmation.
If your ECU is has this combo of Letter / number it IS supported and tunable.

If it is this : P Y (number 1 through 8 ) (Alphabetical letter)
with below : 18 881(alphabetical, usually E)

IF it is NOT " P Y (1-8) (Alphabetical letter) " PM ME A PICTURE.


(note these below are just examples)
For example if yours is PY9B or PZ6H (I need a picture)
for example if yours is PY1H or PY8H or PY7E I do not need a picture, those fall into the category explained above.
 

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This OVT tune, with this much power gain is very enticing. Seriously, I hope I can join in the list with the group price break, upon my return from the Far East, by end of March/early April (Sexy Beast, will be in garage "sabbatical" for the time being.. :D).

Not to be sounding a killjoy here guys...but one real concern though. I do read time and time again..of long term engine reliability, with an ECU tune. Should this be something to be worried about? I mean, with this too good of a power increase bump, on a pretty much mechanically stock 2.5L Sky-G engine (save perhaps, a mod intake/exhaust or two)...can our relatively stock engine/power train truly handle this much power long-term, without compromising on engine reliability? Would that "trade-off", be valid?
 

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Discussion Starter #56 (Edited)
Not to be sounding a killjoy here guys...but one real concern though. I do read time and time again..of long term engine reliability, with an ECU tune. Should this be something to be worried about? I mean, with this too good of a power increase bump, on a pretty much mechanically stock 2.5L Sky-G engine (save perhaps, a mod intake/exhaust or two)...can our relatively stock engine/power train truly handle this much power long-term, without compromising on engine reliability? Would that "trade-off", be valid?
Absolutely long term reliability is affected by adding more power and a higher rev limit to stock mechanical components.

The questions is just how much life does it take off the engine? If your engine and transmission were going to last 300k miles and now will only last 200k would you care? Probably not. If it is only going to last 60k would you care? Probably. Just because the engine or tranny doesn't blow up in the first 1000 miles of driving with the mods doesn't mean it will still run forever.

Nobody other than mazda strength analyst engineers know what the margins of strength and fatigue and crack growth life are for the internal components, nor what the bearings at either end of the connecting rods are rated for in terms of load and cycles/life. Typically engines are designed in the low stress range of infinite life for the steel components, and just wait for the roll of the dice crack growth of microscopic flaws or bearing failure to result in engine failure typically well beyond 200k miles for a well maintained modern engine.

The reality is there is no simple answer, because failure will be dependent on the "goodness" of the parts in your particular engine as built and how much harder you drive after getting the tune than before it. If you never drove any harder after the tune than before the tune engine life would not be affected, but that's not realistic if you are getting the tune for more power, you likely plan on taking advantage of it.

I do still contend that the transmissions are designed to handle 300lb-ft of torque for the diesel application, and if so are likely not to be negatively affected by the tune unless you are power shifting all the time.

And the Engine components were designed and analyzed with intense scrutiny for weight and strength which means the probability of an unknown achilles heel lurking in the engine waiting to be realized by the tune is very, very low.
 

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Hey everyone, for anyone wondering or if you've looked my website is temporarily down while I get some things fixed up.
As for the tune and reliability, i'm 100% confident this isn't even getting close to what the 2.5L can do before stuff starts breaking. These skyactiv engines are tough, and designed very well.
Just as an example of "over-engineering" on mazdas part, the 2.5L MZR, in stock form makes about 150HP. but the stock engine can handle nearly 400HP before anything wants to start breaking.
second to that, the stock rev limit is 6200, but there are several tune people going well over a year with 7300+ rpm limiters. Also for as long as I've been tuning I've never once seen a rod bearing or main bearing failure do to a tune, this is 99% of the time an issue with oiling / oil pressure / clearance. I've seen pistons melt into cylinder walls and the bearings looked liked they were good for another 100k miles.

Now the older stuff, like the old 2.3 gen1s.. yeah they were weak, but it seems mazda got their stuff together and are pumping out some really tough engines now.

Group buy: If the 8 of you listed want to get going I have no problem with this, the turnout was better than I expected. What we can do is get the initial people going, tuning, and whomever wants to jump in on it I can leave it open for a litle while so everyone can get a fair chance if they don't see this, or don't have the money at the moment. Right now this locks price in at 20% off or $100.00
 

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I know it's still early in the process, but @OrangeVirus Tuning and @solar365, can either of you guys comment on what effects, if any, this tune will have on highway fuel economy?

I used the fuel economy and my long highway commute as an excuse to buy this car, so I'm not allowing myself to do anything to harm the highway numbers. And, like I had mentioned in the great octane debate of 2014, I'm ok with spending the extra $0.45/gallon for 93 octane if I can see a boost in fuel economy to offset to cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
I know it's still early in the process, but @OrangeVirus Tuning and @solar365, can either of you guys comment on what effects, if any, this tune will have on highway fuel economy?

I used the fuel economy and my long highway commute as an excuse to buy this car, so I'm not allowing myself to do anything to harm the highway numbers. And, like I had mentioned in the great octane debate of 2014, I'm ok with spending the extra $0.45/gallon for 93 octane if I can see a boost in fuel economy to offset to cost.
At light "getting around town" loads, below 3k fuel economy is improved, above it is worse. I'm sorry I can't quantify it for you right now.

There aren't many reasonably flat places on the interstate around here but my thought is to find one, do a two way pass on cruise control at a specific speed and record instant mpgs both ways and average it. Then flash back to the stock tune drive for 20 minutes and do it again at the same spot. Presumably if the conditions don't change much in that time it should be an accurate comparison.

The question is which speed to pick. Above 65mph up to 80-85mph the economy gains should be huge because I had OVT make the tune more conservative up to 3 grand at low loads where the stock tune is starting to dial up power and dial down fuel economy. below 65 mph improvements are still going to be better than stock, just by how much is the question.

The problem for me is I don't care about mpgs that much with only 6k miles per year and I don't have a lot of spare time for further tinkering related to the tune. I want to do the dyno, but I'm not sure I'll have time to do that mpg test too. I'm just being honest.

And to repeat what OVT said, there is nothing wrong with tuning for 89 or even 87 octane...there are still performance and economy improvements to be had, just not quite as much.
 

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Solar, OVT,

If I wanted to say "Give me the same final tune characteristics you gave Solar, but optimized for 89 octane.", could you do that? And does that reduce the number of back and forths interactions required to complete my tune?

The reality is that Solar has more experience and has already thought through this far better than I could. So I'd love to take advantage of what he ends up with for my own tune. The only difference is that I'd rather optimize for regular grade gas than premium, since the performance tradeoff is marginal, and the cost difference between regular and premium unleaded gas isn't.
 
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