Mazda 6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 1358 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
***UPDATE Orange Virus tune now supports all 3rd Gen Mazda 6 even 2016s***

As many people know I was provided a free tatrix port and free tune from Orange Virus Tuning (OVT) in return for an unbiased review of the product. I ended up paying for the mazdaedit (personal version) myself to encourage OVT to continue with this effort.

My results of the tune are for my car:
2014 Mazda 6 MTX Touring, build date August 2013, which was not stock prior to the tune (you do want to perform all physical modifications prior to the tune so the tune can optimize them). I have a custom 2.5” DIA single side axleback straight through muffler optimized for weight and exhaust velocity over backpressure to maximize torque, and a Corksport SRI Intake to maximize top end performance, and a surrounded it with a custom cold air box to ensure it is impervious to temperature conditions inside the engine bay, and only drawing outside air. I live in Southern California so I am running 91 Octane for Premium.

My objectives prior the tune can be found here:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/331586-custom-tune-notes-91-octane-sri-high-flow-exhaust.html

Throttle Response:
Prior to the tune my engine already provided me excellent throttle response, both in terms of delay before an power comes and once the power comes how fast it comes, as a result of the intake, exhaust and 91 octane fuel mods contributions, so I wasn’t looking for much gains from the tune here, and only yielded a small improvement in throttle response as a result of minimizing the temporary lean condition during initial application of throttle.

Real World Power Accessibility:
Real world power accessibility stock and with my mods and no tune is terrible! There is so much variation in acceleration depending on RPMs and the windows of torque and power are so narrow, it is impossible to find a gear that can pull hard through the entire acceleration situation you are encountering. It makes me very hesitant and unconfident in my car’s ability to do what I need it to do.

The tune has resolved this completely, the engine now responds in a very smooth and predictable way. I don’t go over half throttle unless I am 2750 rpm or higher and the rate of acceleration increases as the revs climb all the way up to 6250. No dead/slow spots. So finding the right gear is now simple/easy and the power delivery is consistent as the revs climb. Also, the amount of power relative to throttle position is way higher than before the tune. At light throttle positions it is most similar to my parents Honda Odyssey’s V6 that is tuned to provide a lot of power early in the throttle, except as I continue to depress the throttle on my tuned Mazda 6 I continue to get a lot more acceleration all the way to WOT.

Also stock the car can be very sluggish at low loads and especially in 1st gear, but now the car has serious get up and go in all situations. It responds faster, it takes less throttle when letting out the clutch for a quick start off the line. And for the first time since I bought the car 1st gear actually feels faster than 2nd gear during regular city driving.

So in summary you can drive this engine like a large bore 3.3 liter modern V6. Solid acceleration with every minor throttle input and the deeper you go into the throttle and the higher the RPM the more you get. This engine closely resembles my hallowed 1990 BMW 325i’s legendary 2.5L Inline 6 for power/torque delivery and responsiveness characteristics and is darn near as smooth at every RPM. Of course the mazda engine is making much more power and torque. What a wonderful engine this Mazda 2.5G Skyactiv is! Adding two more cylinders to the front to turn it into a 3.7 Liter Inline 6 is the stuff of wet dreams. Sorry, I’ll try to stay on topic here…

Wide Open Throttle (WOT) Performance up to Redline:
With respect to WOT performance, prior to the tune the engine accelerated harder at 3250 RPM than anywhere else, except over 5k rpm, where the acceleration was similar to slightly better at 6k. There was a major dip in power at 3500rpm that the engine didn’t fully recover from until 5k. I’m kind of repeating myself there, but it’s for a reason. The great hp and torque numbers you see in the specs for this car are deceptively difficult to access and are very fleeting.

For datalogging WOT for the tune iteration I always did the same test pattern, 1500rpm to my new 6500rpm redline in 2nd gear up a 6-8 degree grade hill, stop at the next intersection stop light, u turn and run 1500rpm to redline in 2nd gear back the other way down the hill which is a less steep grade at that point.

I’ve done this test cycle 6 times now (maybe 1 or 2 datalogging and tune iterations are left to maximize WOT performance), so I’m familiar how the engine is progressing through the whole rev range with the tune. The engine bogs/gurgles its way up to 2750 where the intake timing changes and then it starts to take off by 3000rpm with linear increases in acceleration as the RPMs rise all the way to 5250 where it transitions to an even steeper rise in acceleration as the revs increase up to around 6k, where the rate of increase in acceleration slows and peaks by 6250 and begins to taper off slightly up to the 6500rpm redline.

I fully intend to Dyno my car and update this thread, but for now the fact that there is a significant increase in torque at the 3250 peak after tuning that feels slow compared to the acceleration occurring above 5k tells me the horsepower increases obtained with the tune are quite large on a percentage basis.

In terms of raw acceleration, if you are wondering how much faster the car accelerates; it’s easiest to say that as fast a mazda 6 accelerates 1 gear down is how fast my modded and tuned car accelerates one gear up. So my car accelerates as fast in 2nd gear as it did stock in 1st gear, and as fast in 3rd gear as stock in 2nd gear and so on. That’s obviously a big approximation but I really do think it is in the ballpark. I would also guestimate the broad power-band and 6500rpm redline which allow me to clear 60mph in 2nd gear that my 3050lb Mazda 6 is running 0-60 in the low 6s which puts it on par to slightly better than prior Mazda 6 V6s.

Manual Transmission Compatibility with the Tune:
The MTX is holding up wonderfully with the additional power. The clutch is not slipping and for some reason probably related to a change in my technique when letting the clutch out due to the extra power, shifting is easier as well. It appears my hope is true that this is the same clutch and transmission, with exception of the final drive, as the one use for the 2.2 diesel which is rated for 300 lb ft of torque capability per Mazda engineering presentations. So the tune and MTX are great together!

Fuel Economy with the Tune:
Also many people are probably curious about mpgs. I'm still feeling out the tuning changes so I have no clue yet what will happen to MY overall mpgs the way I will be driving "normally" in the near future, but I've been seeing some crazy instant mpg values when cruising. The OVT tune removes conservatism which translates into better fuel economy at low engine loads. He even optimized valve timing at low loads for fuel economy and for me did it up to a higher RPM, so I can cruise at 80 mph and still get decent fuel economy, because it's still running in an economy setting, where stock it would be switching to a more performance oriented setting. Bottom line, when you drive nice and easy your mpg will improve on the OVT tune over stock and if you drive really hard your MPG will decrease vs stock. I do think I am able to drive a litle harder while achieving the same mpg as before.

Conclusion:
So for around $1000 for intake, exhaust and the tune, the most common mods people do, you can basically swap your naturally aspirated long stroke 4 cylinder for a larger naturally aspirated large bore V6 with no disadvantages (other than higher fuel cost if you only start using high octane with the tune), and some major advantages of low weight and fuel economy of a 4 cylinder engine. To quote the old UPS commercial “I’m happy.”

Here are links to noteworthy posts related to the tune:

Checking ECU Compatibility:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-10.html#post4335937
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion.html#post4330194
What you need for the tune:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-4.html#post4332218
OVT Pricing:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-6.html#post4333529
How the tuning process works:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-5.html#post4332794
Getting help through the tuning process:
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/343905-mazdaedit-tatrix-orange-virus-tuning-how-technical-supoprt-help-discussion.html
Tuning for 87 or 89 Octane Vs 91 or 93 Octane
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-13.html#post4337889
OVT Level-setting Tune Expectations
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-7.html#post4334209
CX5 stock and OVT Tune Dyno results:
2.5G power potential
Virtual Dyno Tune results
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-7.html#post4334209
Safe Mode for Skyactiv:
2.5G power potential
Tune recalibrated airflow, long term fuel trims corrected within 1%
2.5G power potential
Airflow and timing advance on 3rd iteration of tune (hopefully OVT can provide final results when we are all done.
2.5G power potential
Optional Disabling EGR Valve
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-12.html#post4337449
Tuning and Temperature
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-10.html#post4335193
Increasing the rev limit
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-2.html#post4331002
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-3.html#post4331338
http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/314193-2-5g-power-potential-24.html#post4345505
Final Tune Performance Results
Tickerguy: http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-44.html#post4400186
Ballsy: http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-55.html#post4412218
Nobouncecap: http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-66.html#post4421513
Shazy: http://forum.mazda6club.com/2-5l-i-4/342618-orange-virus-tuned-3rd-gen-mazda6-2-5g-skayctiv-results-technical-discussion-60.html#post4415674
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Is the engine running leaner now?
Long term fuel trims were corrected to within 1% with the tune.

A/F ratio is defined by tables which OVT edited using mazdaedit so, it's whatever OVT decided it should be for a given load rpm scenario. I haven't seen the table yet so I can't be sure what it is for each scenario.

I'd imagine it is running more rich than stock under heavy throttle to keep from detinating with +15 degrees on ignition timing and a true 13:1 compression ratio.

When I get on the throttle fuel mileage is worse than before the tune, when I drive lightly the fuel mileage is better than before the tune, all as expected when optimizing for performance at heavy throttle and fuel economy at light throttle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I propbably need to clarify in the OP that there is no off the shelf tune. Every tune is customized somewhat to your car.

Epifansoft that makes Mazdaedit software is a guy in Russia, OVT is a guy in Colorado, but none of that matters, everything is done remotely and no dyno time is required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
782 Posts
Subscribed to the thread. Thanks for pushing the envelope on extracting more performance from the 2.5G Skyactiv engine. Really looking forward to seeing your dyno results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Ok everyone, my PM box is getting flooded with support questions. So I want to direct everyone to this post:

Before you purchase the software, or a tactrix, please check that your ECU is supported. Its pretty easy to do.
Epifan has said all 2014 *should* be supported, but I recommend checking just in case.

To check:
Pop your cars hood, and in the picture attached, you will see the location of the ECU. Remove the ECU cover (or if necessary the intake as well for room) and you will see on your ECU a Sticker with a code / Number. please PM ME a picture of that ECU sticker / code. I will get back to you within 24-48 (depending on Epifan) if your car is supported and we can go from there!.
ATX and MTX should both be supported.

for ATX owners: Like most Mazdas I've tuned, the transmission is controlled by it's own TCM, and not the PCM. Unfortunately I can't promise that on the mazda 6 I will be able to tune or adjust shift points for the ATX.

If you unplug anything to get access, remember to plug it back in. You shouldn't have to unplug or fully remove the ECU.
you will know you are looking at the correct thing because it should be a small black box with a lot of wires going into it.

Requirements for tune:
You need a MazdaEdit license. you only need LITE for me to tune you. PERSONAL is if you want map access and want to play around with the ECU yourself. ( I don't recommend this unless you know what you're doing ) epifanSoftware | ecuEdit
A Tactrix Open port 2.0. no reflash adapters. Tactrix
A WINDOWS based laptop PC (windows 8 works fine). It has to be a laptop because you need it in the car to flash / datalog.



General recommendations to get the most out of it:
91 or 93 octane will give the best results, but aren't required. You can still get a noticeable difference running stock octane requirement.
Intake / exhaust will only help get you more, but not required. A stock car will still see a big difference.
A car that is properly maintained.



- As with every tune I've done, I offer free lifetime updates for as long as you own the car, free support and help, along with that I'm continually working to get the best possible calibration, and everyone who has a tune from me is entitled to any new updates for no charge.

Thanks everyone!
 

Attachments

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,407 Posts
Hmm... interesting...

Wonder how it'll work with just a CAI and premium fuel...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,787 Posts
I'd imagine it is running more rich than stock under heavy throttle to keep from detinating with +15 degrees on ignition timing and a true 13:1 compression ratio.
14:1 on the SykactivG 2.5 the 2.0L is 13:1.



Is the motor still firing multiple fuel injection, including on the exhaust stroke? Was any of that taken into account during this tuning?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
14:1 on the SykactivG 2.5 the 2.0L is 13:1.



Is the motor still firing multiple fuel injection, including on the exhaust stroke? Was any of that taken into account during this tuning?
The tune does not modify the two-stage injection system. The first injection is used for safety purposes To keep cylinder temps under control, it is very, very small amount of wasted fuel.
The Direction injection targeted pressures are adjusted. It still desires it's 2900+ PSI fuel pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
14:1 on the SykactivG 2.5 the 2.0L is 13:1.
No actually. All US (and Canada? Skyactiv motors are 13:1 and require 87 octane gas. In Europe and any other place where minimum octanes are 91+ they are 14:1 ratios. I've pondered if the only difference is the head gasket thickness...in which case, 14:1 is just a head gasket swap and OVT tune away.

But I'm done with engine performance mods. I'm totally happy where this engine is at.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-mazda-6-i-sport-test-review-the-gearbox-of-an-rx-8-page-2

" In the 2.5, a 13.0:1 compression ratio, direct injection, and long, tuned exhaust runners hint at race-car ambitions, but the 87-octane burner turns out just 184 horsepower at 5700 rpm and 185 pound-feet of torque at 3250 rpm. It is a smooth and calm, if somewhat flavorless, low-revving engine. "

Hehe, not anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
any ATX owners want to give this a go and be the guinea pig? I am interested in this also but want to see some real world ATX tune results before I go for it. Also i wonder how much power and torque the transmission can handle before it starts self destructing, heh
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
No actually. All US (and Canada? Skyactiv motors are 13:1 and require 87 octane gas. In Europe and any other place where minimum octanes are 91+ they are 14:1 ratios. I've pondered if the only difference is the head gasket thickness...in which case, 14:1 is just a head gasket swap and OVT tune away.
In Europe (mine included), the 2.5G also has a 13:1 compression ratio. Only the 2.0G and the 2.2D have the 14:1 ratio.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,787 Posts
No actually. All US (and Canada? Skyactiv motors are 13:1 and require 87 octane gas. In Europe and any other place where minimum octanes are 91+ they are 14:1 ratios. I've pondered if the only difference is the head gasket thickness...in which case, 14:1 is just a head gasket swap and OVT tune away.

Thank you for correcting me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
any ATX owners want to give this a go and be the guinea pig? I am interested in this also but want to see some real world ATX tune results before I go for it. Also i wonder how much power and torque the transmission can handle before it starts self destructing, heh
There's s strong chance the ATX is the same one used with the diesel, with exception of final drive gearing, in which case it should be able to handle the extra torque without breaking. whether or not the ATX is able to adapt it's shifting methodologies to the extra power is just a question of how much. I mentioned before I am the first MTX tune with the 2.5G Skyactiv, which implies that between Mazda 3S and CX5 2.5 OVT has already tuned many 2.5G with ATX. So it works, it's just a question of how nice and smooth everything is. I know you are pretty picky about that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I would also guestimate the broad power-band and 6500rpm gearing which allow me to clear 60mph in 2nd gear that my 3050lb Mazda 6 is running 0-60 in the low 6s which puts it on par to slightly better than prior Mazda 6 V6s.
What do you mean 6500rpm gearing? Do you mean 6500rpm redline?

When looking at the stats on this car compared to the Accord, I thought the 0-60 difference was pretty odd. The Mazda 6 was a good bit slower than the accord due to the fact that it required 2 gear shifts vs the accord which can hit 60 in 2nd. Not that the 0-60 time is the be-all-end-all, but still I would think for a sporty sedan you'd want to play with the lower gear ratios a bit and try to hit 60 in second, at least from a marketing point of view.

I suspect they threw in a previously designed manual gearbox and called it a day, and that hitting performance numbers was not the goal especially for 2-3% of the cars that are built with manuals. Still, I have the thought in the back of my head that if you could safely hit 6500rpm as a redline and do 0-60 with 2 gears, why didn't you?


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
What do you mean 6500rpm gearing? Do you mean 6500rpm redline?

When looking at the stats on this car compared to the Accord, I thought the 0-60 difference was pretty odd. The Mazda 6 was a good bit slower than the accord due to the fact that it required 2 gear shifts vs the accord which can hit 60 in 2nd. Not that the 0-60 time is the be-all-end-all, but still I would think for a sporty sedan you'd want to play with the lower gear ratios a bit and try to hit 60 in second, at least from a marketing point of view.

I suspect they threw in a previously designed manual gearbox and called it a day, and that hitting performance numbers was not the goal especially for 2-3% of the cars that are built with manuals. Still, I have the thought in the back of my head that if you could safely hit 6500rpm as a redline and do 0-60 with 2 gears, why didn't you?
Yes I meant redline.

At 6500 it's going 62 in 2nd for the MTX now. But the 2nd shift isn't the only reason the 6 is slower than the accord. The accords high redline (and subsequent shorter gearing in 2nd) and no power cut on hard 1-2 shifts combined with a higher true engine output at the wheels with the MTX than would be expected for the rated flywheel hp make it faster.

The extra 300 rpm of redline makes a HUGE difference for acceleration. It also does show a little strain/roughness in the engine above that 6200 rpm redline, but no worse than any other 4 cylinder near redline I've ever driven and I've driven a lot.

Think if you are Mazda and you just bet the company's future with +13:1 compression ratio engines. Can you afford the bad publicity from even a few engines blowing up? They just went through that a bit on the RX8s. That is why they are crazy conservative with these engines.

As for me I take the Tachometer as a not so subtle hit at all that by the engineers. The true redline on the Tach is 6500rpm. The "getting dangerous" zone is 6200-6500. It was likely a final Chief Engineer/Management decision to put the limiter down at 6200rpm to mitigate risk, which would explain why 2nd gear falls short of 60mph. The powertrain guys selected gears to get to 62 in 2nd at 6500rpm. When the Engine was cut back to 6200 it fell short.

And no, this transmission is brand new for the new skyactiv engines and even if it wasn't they could easily change the final drive cogs like they did between the diesel and gas skyactivs.
 
1 - 20 of 1358 Posts
Top