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Discussion Starter #1
I dropped my car off yesterday morning at my dealers for the 48K kms (30K miles) service. I returned after work to pick up the car, and the service manager was happy to annouce that in addition to the service, they also flashed my PCM under warranty, so no extra charge.

I'm like "WHAT??"

I told him that he really should've checked with me before proceeding with the flash. The service manager tried to defend his actions by explaining the benefits of having the PCM flashed with the latest software, and that the word from Mazda Canada was that it was necessary.

I was upset, but it was late and I was due to meet up with some friends, so I paid for the service and took the car.

First thing I noticed: for the next 1 to 2 hours after I picked up the car, the engine would idle erratically when rpms returned to 750 from higher revs. The tach needle would dip down lower than 750 and then bounce up to about 900 and then down to below 750 and up again. This up and down bouncing would continue for about 10 to 15 seconds, after which the idle would finally settle at a "normal" speed. Each time the idle dipped down low, the engine would vibrate somewhat excessively.

After a good run on the highway for about 30 mins, this behaviour went away. Today, a full 24 hours later, I'm glad to say that the behaviour has not returned. So, I don't know what that was all about.

Second thing noticed, and the MAIN disappointment: the engine now seems gutless. Its harder to accelerate. I'm a spirited driver and my rpms are always up around the 4000 mark. I find that its noticably harder to get to 4000K. I also don't feel that "kick" that's normally felt up around this rev-range.

Seems like this PCM update's sucked the life and personality out of my car.

The only info I have about this PCM update is off my invoice:

MAZDA SPECIAL PROGRAM MSP10 - PROCESS A
AS PER SERVICE BULLETIN 05-13 RC CAT.

Anyone else have anything similar happen after a PCM?
 

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yup, sure did! I had the CPE intake system on mine when they flashed it. Like you i was also very upset. My car feels different now and i dont like it. I still dont know weather or not it affected my CPE box.....but i basically only enjoyed my intake for about a week. I loved the kick that it had, and the reflash just straight up took it away. The acceleration is very sluggish now and seems to struggle to reach the higher RPM's.

I posted this problem in another forum, but no one really went through the same thing. I wish i could take that stupid flash off.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Did you post on mazda6tech.com?

According to mazda6tech.com the MSP10 flash does the following:

2003 - 2005 MAZDA6 - MAZDA SPECIAL PROGRAM (MSP10) - CAN COMMUNICATION:

The MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) may illuminate during OBD II check at I/M (Inspection/Maintenance) station. This will cause the vehicle to fail the I/M test, although the vehicle itself has no problem.[/b]
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/about3962.html

The description makes the PCM update seem quite benign. However, when I asked the service manager to describe what the nature of the update was, he told me something to this effect:

The parameters of the engine sensors have been expanded to accept a wider range.

I told him to explain in detail what this statement meant, only to get another incomprehenisble statement from him.

It appears that they've done something to the sensors... just don't know what...

Hopefully crossbow reads this thread and provides some useful insight into the issue :)
 

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Mazda doesn't tell the dealers anymore about the flash then what you know. It's a screwed up system that they've been fighting to change for the last few years.

Basically mazda is constantly releasing all these little updates, yet only mentions that "oh this addresses the sucking issue", even though it might be changing tons of different parameters.

Mazda's side of the situation is...
"If we told you everything we were changing, everyone would freak out, because it would appear that there was a large number of screwed up settings and parameters. This would lower our reliability rating."


Our side of the situation...
"No Charles nooooooesss!!!1 I got this shit in 4th grade!!!!"


Mazda dealers side...
Um...hey mazda could you tell us what's going on, cause we got all these complaints, but all you tell is to apply a flash...whats the flash doing?
 

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Even though I have a 6S, I have avoided taking my car to the dealer for any service for this reason. I love the way my engine in performing with the CPE installed and I fear an update could decrease my gains and lower the rev limiter. I have instead performed all of the services myself, but now I fear that I might be having an issue due to a high pitched whine from the engine bay that is related to RPM's in the 2200-2700 range. I don't want to take it to the dealer as I know they will attempt to update my car as it is an 04'. So for now I am looking to see if I can find the source of the whining sound. Hopefuly a belt etc. but so far I have had no luck. Can I just tell them that they can absolutely not update my car? I would think I could since I own it!
 

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You should also realize that in certain situations...this new system of fixing problems with reflashes puts the individual shop mechanic in a tricky situation.

How is a standard non dealership mechanic supposed to fix problems on a car that can only be fixed through a reprogram of a pcm? There is alot of serious issues occuring behind the scenes right now that are going to effect the livelyhood of many mechanics.
 

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Another note...

Remember that when the PCM is either reset, or reflashed, the car remains in a sort of "psuedo cycle" (I'm making up this term) where the readiness tests do not complete. This is why pulling the negative battery cable prior to an emissions inspection (to hide an intake cel) will result in a fail.

It takes an undisclosed # of drive cycles before all readiness tests complete. Depending on the amount of miles the car is driven, this can take a few hours, days, or even a week.

During this time the adaptive nature of the pcm seems a bit...I don't know, reluctant to do anything.

What the hell am I blabbling about? Just to give the car a few days before completely writing it off.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Crossbow, I hardly call this babble. :)

You've shed a lot of light upon this situation... thanks for the clarification. I'll give the car a week or so to get its act together.

And, I hear ya about this whole new way of servicing cars that involves special computerized machinery that the average-joe style mechanic does not have access too. I'm a software developer myself, and it scares me to think that one day I'll be at the mercy of a dealer for all my services, even after the car's warranty has expired... I agree fully that where there's software, there's an extra layer of "BS" involved that is riddled with errors. What if some nerdy coder introduces a logic-error in the code that causes my brakes to slam on suddenly in the middle of a bend? Ok that's an extreme example, but you know what I'm getting at.

I wish all cars where fully mechanical, like in the good old days...
 

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Crap. I just dropped my car off for 30k service this afternoon and the dude said he was gonna do the PCM flash thing. Hope it's ok when I pick it up on Monday...
 

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Crap. I just dropped my car off for 30k service this afternoon and the dude said he was gonna do the PCM flash thing. Hope it's ok when I pick it up on Monday...
[/b]
You will be ok. You just will not be able to go past 7000 Rpm anymore. I have had this PCM Flash on my car and that is the only thing I noticed.
 

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Hmm, i have an 04 and i think my rev limiter has always been set at 6,700 as i never remember being able to push it to 7K. Im at 21K miles and no reflash has been done yet to my knowledge. The car pulls great... speaking of which. I have this really strong urge to go drive so... off i go. Wait... actually...last time i had a sudden urge to drive, i came back home with a $240 speeding ticket...
 

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Hmm, i have an 04 and i think my rev limiter has always been set at 6,700 as i never remember being able to push it to 7K. Im at 21K miles and no reflash has been done yet to my knowledge. The car pulls great... speaking of which. I have this really strong urge to go drive so... off i go. Wait... actually...last time i had a sudden urge to drive, i came back home with a $240 speeding ticket...
[/b]
Before my Flash I could hit 7500 Rpm now I can only hit 7000 Rpm. When did you get your 04? I got my 04 in Oct. 2003. The Recall is Vin Specific. Maybe you got your car after the recall?
 

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i received a letter on december from my dealership telling me i have an outstanding recall MSP10. i hate my dealership so much i haven't gone in to get this recall done which looks like it a good thing. i guess v6 6 also falls under this recall.
 

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If your tach said your engine was revving at 7500 RPMs then your tach is broken. No 6i (or 6s for that matter) has ever rev'd above a fuel cut-off of 6700 RPMs. You might go over it a bit with sheer momentum to 6800 or 6900, but nowhere near 7500.
[/b]
Wow, Maybe my tach is broken. When I took my car to the alarm shop the other day to get my remote start hooked up to the tach, they told me that they could not get a reading from the tach. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. What should my tach read at 65mph or any other Mph for that matter?
 

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Drove my car back from the dealership yesterday and didn't notice anything different/bad. :yesnod:
 

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does ayone know exactly ich cars this all effects. i go an 03 6i?
should i worry about anything being fixed...

ive had a few recalls i havnt gotten fixed yet but i have no idea where a mazda dealership is either.
the tranny shifting thing, the pass seat heater thing
the pcm upgrade
the brake noise

none of it has ben correxted
 
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