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Discussion Starter #1
I've read the sticky and tried searching, but havent really found the answer to this....

I need to replace my 17" OE Michelins and was considering going with either P225/50's or P225/45's. I'm curious as to what the gap between my tire/fender will be with either of these sizes. If the tire calculator i used is correct, the 225/50 is a little taller, so the gap will be less than with the OE P215/50? And the P225/45 is shorter, so there will be more of a gap, right?

There is pretty much no chance I'll ever be lowering my car, so if anything, I'd like to try and reduce the tire to fender gap. Or is the fractional difference in height not going to make a difference? In which case, is there prevailing opinion as to which profile (45 or 50) is better with a P225? Or am I best to just go with OE size?

Thanks!
 

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I've read the sticky and tried searching, but havent really found the answer to this....

I need to replace my 17" OE Michelins and was considering going with either P225/50's or P225/45's. I'm curious as to what the gap between my tire/fender will be with either of these sizes. If the tire calculator i used is correct, the 225/50 is a little taller, so the gap will be less than with the OE P215/50? And the P225/45 is shorter, so there will be more of a gap, right?

There is pretty much no chance I'll ever be lowering my car, so if anything, I'd like to try and reduce the tire to fender gap. Or is the fractional difference in height not going to make a difference? In which case, is there prevailing opinion as to which profile (45 or 50) is better with a P225? Or am I best to just go with OE size?

Thanks!
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Visually, you will have to be staring and squinting pretty hard to discern any difference among the three.

In terms of speedo/odo error, the 215/50 OEM is (of course) spot-on, and the 225/45 is just a tad "fast" (your speedometer will show you going a hair faster than the police radar will), while the 225/50 will have you two hairs slow (the police radar will show you going faster than your speedometer shows), but both the 225/45 and the 225/50 will be pretty close to a true reading: theoretically, the 225/50 shoould be 1.4 percent slow, or about 58 mph showing on the speedometer at a true 60 mph.

Fitmentwise, the 225/50 is a better match for the 7" rims than a 225/45 is; the rule of thumb is that 50 series and higher tires take an ideal rim width 70 percent of the section width and 45 series and lower tires take an ideal rim with 85 percent of the section width. See here: use text search to find Aspect Ratio and Rim / Pan Width.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Visually, you will have to be staring and squinting pretty hard to discern any difference among the three.

In terms of speedo/odo error, the 215/50 OEM is (of course) spot-on, and the 225/45 is just a tad "fast" (your speedometer will show you going a hair faster than the police radar will), while the 225/50 will have you two hairs slow (the police radar will show you going faster than your speedometer shows), but both the 225/45 and the 225/50 will be pretty close to a true reading: theoretically, the 225/50 shoould be 1.4 percent slow, or about 58 mph showing on the speedometer at a true 60 mph.

Fitmentwise, the 225/50 is a better match for the 7" rims than a 225/45 is; the rule of thumb is that 50 series and higher tires take an ideal rim width 70 percent of the section width and 45 series and lower tires take an ideal rim with 85 percent of the section width. See here: use text search to find Aspect Ratio and Rim / Pan Width.
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OK....thanks...

I was leaning towards P225/5017's anyway based on tire height. Yeah, I know I'm talking about a small difference and I'm sure different tires will probably vary...

Overall Diameter: 25.46 in 646.68 mm P215/5017
Overall Diameter: 25.85 in 656.59 mm P225/5017
Overall Diameter: 24.97 in 634.23 mm P225/4517

Now I just have to decide on what tires to get!!
 

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OK....thanks...

I was leaning towards P225/5017's anyway based on tire height. Yeah, I know I'm talking about a small difference and I'm sure different tires will probably vary...

Overall Diameter: 25.46 in 646.68 mm P215/5017
Overall Diameter: 25.85 in 656.59 mm P225/5017
Overall Diameter: 24.97 in 634.23 mm P225/4517

Now I just have to decide on what tires to get!!
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Facing a similar decision, I'm leaning toward the new ContiSportContact 3, available right now in 225/45-17, but currently the 225/50-17 size is announced, but not shipped.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Facing a similar decision, I'm leaning toward the new ContiSportContact 3, available right now in 225/45-17, but currently the 225/50-17 size is announced, but not shipped.
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I think I'm going to go with the Toyo Proxes 4....they are M+S rated and seem to get good review around here...And they are reasonably priced!
 

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I think I'm going to go with the Toyo Proxes 4....they are M+S rated
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Precisely why they are not on my list of tires I consider fitting to my car.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, we get wet roads a lot of the time, and when I drive on those wet roads, sooner or later, I am going to want to stop the car. Because the ability to stop when the road is wet is important to me, no all-season tire meets my criteria.

When we get our annual Day of Snowfall (sometimes we get two in a year, often none), I leave the car in the garage until the snow melts. When the snow does melt, the road is wet, and, again, I may want to stop, and that is a time -- when the pavement is wet -- that I really don't want an all-season tire comprising my only contact with the road.

In Stow, Ohio, you see more light, loose snow than we do, and so the consideration of go-in-snow may outweigh stop-on-wet for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Precisely why they are not on my list of tires I consider fitting to my car.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, we get wet roads a lot of the time, and when I drive on those wet roads, sooner or later, I am going to want to stop the car. Because the ability to stop when the road is wet is important to me, no all-season tire meets my criteria.

When we get our annual Day of Snowfall (sometimes we get two in a year, often none), I leave the car in the garage until the snow melts. When the snow does melt, the road is wet, and, again, I may want to stop, and that is a time -- when the pavement is wet -- that I really don't want an all-season tire comprising my only contact with the road.

In Stow, Ohio, you see more light, loose snow than we do, and so the consideration of go-in-snow may outweigh stop-on-wet for you.
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Interesting.....

I'd actually rather sacrafice winter weather performance than wet weather performance.

Is it you opinion that Proxes are not good in the wet, or that all "performance" all season tires suck in the wet?
 

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Is it you opinion that Proxes are not good in the wet, or that all "performance" all season tires suck in the wet?
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It's the fact that all-season tires aren't as good in the wet as most summer tires are. Most all-seasons give up a lot of ultimate dry and wet performance and grip, so they can be driven safely through light snow and colder conditions.

Being from Ohio, have you considered snow tires?
 

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Is it you opinion that Proxes are not good in the wet, or that all "performance" all season tires suck in the wet?
[/b]
The latter; my comments were not directed specifically toward the Proxes4. Every aspect of every tire is a compromise, and the compromise made to allow snow to stick to the tread of an all-season tire allows (in fact, causes) water to stick to the tread in wet conditions. That compromises wet traction (braking).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's the fact that all-season tires aren't as good in the wet as most summer tires are. Most all-seasons give up a lot of ultimate dry and wet performance and grip, so they can be driven safely through light snow and colder conditions.

Being from Ohio, have you considered snow tires?
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I've though about it, and unfortunatly, i dont have (or want to spend!) the extra money for snow tires/rims, nor do I have the room to store an extra set of tires/rims. Plus, I have a whopping 3 mile commute to work, so I can tough it out...

I'd say my priorities are:
1) Dry weather performance
2) Wet weather performance
3) Winter performance
4) Price
5) Tread life

Do you guys think the Proxes would fit the bill? Or is there something else I should look at?
 

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Do you guys think the Proxes would fit the bill? Or is there something else I should look at?
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For all-seasons that will see some snow, but still has decent dry and wet traction, the Proxes4 will do just fine, and are a good choice for tires.

Others I'd look at are:
Yokohama Avid V4S
Bridgestone Potenza G009
Avon Tech M550 A/S
Kumho ECSTA ASX

Lots of other forum members have went with these tires and are generally happy with their choice, along with the Proxes4.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
For all-seasons that will see some snow, but still has decent dry and wet traction, the Proxes4 will do just fine, and are a good choice for tires.

Others I'd look at are:
Yokohama Avid V4S
Bridgestone Potenza G009
Avon Tech M550 A/S
Kumho ECSTA ASX

Lots of other forum members have went with these tires and are generally happy with their choice, along with the Proxes4.
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Thanks...I'll look into those too.

The thing is, during the winter here, the roads are usually plowed/salted, so performance in the wet is way more important to me than the ability to plow through 6" of snow. If it's that bad outside, I'll either stay home, or drive reallllllly slow...
 

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Thanks...I'll look into those too.

The thing is, during the winter here, the roads are usually plowed/salted, so performance in the wet is way more important to me than the ability to plow through 6" of snow. If it's that bad outside, I'll either stay home, or drive reallllllly slow...
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No problem.

I understand about the weather completely. Not only do the roads here get plowed/salted MOST of the time, sometimes, they're not. Other times, the lake-effect snow can turn a wet road into a 6" snow-packed road in an hour. Of course, my job doesn't allow me to stay home all that often during bad weather, and with a close-to-50-miles round trip I take everyday, winter tires are required for me.
 

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Is it you opinion that Proxes are not good in the wet, or that all "performance" all season tires suck in the wet?
[/b]
What posttosh means to say is that wet and dry traction is generally superior with summer compound high performance tires vs. all season tires. While most all-season tires are able to generate acceptable traction in wet conditions, many summer compound tires are able to improve on that, at the expense of winter traction. As stated before, tire design is a series of compromises. To gain an improvement in one area, you typically have to sacrifice something somewhere else.

The Proxes4 bridges the gap of wet traction between summer HP tires and typical all-season tires by adding silica to the tread compound (this raises the coefficient of friction) and by adding larger tread blocks, also improves dry traction. So, while the Proxes4 may not have the same wet/dry capabilities as our summer compound Proxes T1R, it is a huge improvement over the stock all-season Michelins. They are UTQG AA rated for wet traction, the highest rating you can get. And the Proxes4 will handle light duty in the snow.

While posttosh may be looking for the ultimate wet weather tire, do not take his comments to mean that the Proxes4 has no wet weather capability. Considering I live in New Orleans, where it rains as much or more than Portland (posttosh's home town), and I have over 30,000 miles on my Proxes4s, I can personally vouch for the Proxes4s wet weather prowess.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What posttosh means to say is that wet and dry traction is generally superior with summer compound high performance tires vs. all season tires. While most all-season tires are able to generate acceptable traction in wet conditions, many summer compound tires are able to improve on that, at the expense of winter traction. As stated before, tire design is a series of compromises. To gain an improvement in one area, you typically have to sacrifice something somewhere else.

The Proxes4 bridges the gap of wet traction between summer HP tires and typical all-season tires by adding silica to the tread compound (this raises the coefficient of friction) and by adding larger tread blocks, also improves dry traction. So, while the Proxes4 may not have the same wet/dry capabilities as our summer compound Proxes T1R, it is a huge improvement over the stock all-season Michelins. They are UTQG AA rated for wet traction, the highest rating you can get. And the Proxes4 will handle light duty in the snow.

While posttosh may be looking for the ultimate wet weather tire, do not take his comments to mean that the Proxes4 has no wet weather capability. Considering I live in New Orleans, where it rains as much or more than Portland (posttosh's home town), and I have over 30,000 miles on my Proxes4s, I can personally vouch for the Proxes4s wet weather prowess.
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Thanks Toyo Guy....I understand "All Season" and "High Performance" dont exactly go together and that almost everything in tires is a compromise. I run summer only tires on my Firebird, for example. I just wanted to make sure there wasnt something specificly wrong with the Proxes4's in the wet--kinda like the factory Michelins.

I just ordered 4 Proxes4's in size P225/45VR17 from EdgeRacing.com. Thanks guys!!!!
 

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I just ordered 4 Proxes4's in size P225/45VR17 from EdgeRacing.com. Thanks guys!!!!
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You rock, dude! Thank you! :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm really showing the 6 some love today!! Just ordered EBC rotors and Hawk HPS pads to go with the new tires!

I think she was jealous of all the attention the Firebird got this summer :)
 

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Toyo Guy: Thought I would throw this question into the forum. Might be some other readers considering 225/45-17 or 225/50-17. What is the minimum offset to be considered ... without the need to roll the fenders. Tirerack has some up to 53mm. So ... what's the minimum?

Keith_MS6
 

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Toyo Guy: Thought I would throw this question into the forum. Might be some other readers considering 225/45-17 or 225/50-17. What is the minimum offset to be considered ... without the need to roll the fenders. Tirerack has some up to 53mm. So ... what's the minimum?

Keith_MS6
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Sent you pm, but the lowest offset generally considered to work without rubbing is +48mm.
 
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