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I know we're not happy with our TMIC and it's poor airflow, but hey.....


A lot of the newer performance cars are showing problems with high inlet air temps/heatsoak due to very conservative tunes, the GT500, GTO both suffer.

A guy I know just went the track 2 days ago with his new 2006 6 speed GTO.

Off the street he ran 5 or so 14 second passes at 103 MPH.

Let the car cool for over an hour, iced the intake then....

ran a 13.4 @ 109

came back around, waited in line, ran again.....

13.9 @ 102

We're talking a loss of about 50-60 HP. Ridiculous. A good tune will help a lot with this but it's sad the factory tune is so biased again't any possible knock they pull all the timing when there's some heat at the air inlet temp sensor.

All these runs were all bone stock down to the air filter, 4,000 miles on the car, 1/2 tank of gas, and all jacks/spares/seats/etc. still in the car including his 240 lb ass.

Neeless to say he's not happy about it, but it's a fact, between the drive by wire and the ECU pulling timing it seems the more HP they give us the less use it is...hell my bone stock 2001 SS Camaro ran CONSISTENT 13.1'[email protected]+ all night long, no heat problems at all.

So cheer up folks, were not the only guys with heat problems.
 

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I've gotten flamed quite a few times for saying the heat soak on this car is not that bad. I don't often drive in traffic so my car is never sitting for extended periods of time.

Does the car suffer from a 1 second 1/4 mile hit because it's warm, I don't think so. Here's some 1/4 mile results. Interestingly enough my best times (13.9's) have been after a back to back run.

Here's 9 runs in about 2 hours:

14.286s 95.358 2.009 6.256 9.171 77.208
14.181s 96.498 1.944 6.131 9.060 77.519
14.185s 95.081 1.914 6.117 9.043 77.030
14.163s 96.790 1.931 6.116 9.032 77.439
14.087s 95.254 1.789 5.999 8.936 76.769
13.956s 96.443 1.770 5.905 8.830 77.284
14.267s 95.117 1.904 6.157 9.103 76.577
14.155s 95.434 1.895 6.112 9.033 77.056
14.242s 97.094 1.985 6.218 9.149 77.460

And here's another 15 in 3 hours:

14.023 97.011 1.844 0.000 8.942 77.927
13.960 99.147 1.864 0.000 8.905 78.230
14.071 94.863 1.849 6.050 8.964 78.030
14.207 93.743 1.910 6.120 9.041 77.911
14.060 00.000 1.862 6.049 8.958 78.102
14.206 94.129 1.878 0.000 9.052 77.040
14.366 00.000 1.934 6.214 0.000 77.027
14.122 00.000 1.849 6.067 0.000 00.000
14.024 96.130 1.818 0.000 8.920 77.506
14.292 00.000 1.919 6.168 0.000 00.000
14.296 00.000 1.909 6.165 0.000 00.000
14.181 00.000 1.887 6.106 0.000 00.000
14.299 93.640 1.883 0.000 9.106 75.995
14.201 95.579 1.849 0.000 9.042 76.588
14.089 96.734 1.871 0.000 8.997 77.740

Unless I mod the hell of my car, I'm sticking with the TMIC.

Flame on!
 

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Awhile back I read an article on the OZ's MOTOR magazine explaining how the modern cars now especially those with fly by wire throttle, and along with its ECU always doing some funny things behind our back when we are trying to have some fun with our car especially when it comes to drap racing and this is also the reason for all the descrepancy in the speed data that we are so keen on getting.

Just like to share this article with you guys and see what you think.

The article may not have anything to do with the heatsoak issue with other cars but nevertheless it makes one wonder what kind of thing the ECU doing at any moment in time.

Here are the 2 pages in PDF file:

MOTOR ARTICLE PAGE 1

MOTOR ARTICLE PAGE 2
 

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the guy with the GTO needs a tune. Even a handheld tuner like the Predator or Superchips would do for a stock car. Eliminate the torque management that GM has on its V8 cars, which pulls timing and thus power back dramatically during shifts, and bump up the thresheld for timeing to be pulled for high IAT's (GTO starts pulling timeing in the high 80's) and he will run consistant low 13's easily, with a high 12 possible - bone stock.
 

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Awhile back I read an article on the OZ's MOTOR magazine explaining how the modern cars now especially those with fly by wire throttle, and along with its ECU always doing some funny things behind our back when we are trying to have some fun with our car especially when it comes to drap racing and this is also the reason for all the descrepancy in the speed data that we are so keen on getting.

Just like to share this article with you guys and see what you think.

The article may not have anything to do with the heatsoak issue with other cars but nevertheless it makes one wonder what kind of thing the ECU doing at any moment in time.

Here are the 2 pages in PDF file:

MOTOR ARTICLE PAGE 1

MOTOR ARTICLE PAGE 2
[/b]
Interesting read, thanks for the links! Wonder if our ECU can record abuse data for later denial of warranty claims or other such BS; i.e. max revs hit, speed, etc. It's of import to me currently as I dropped my MS6 off at the shop this morning for the hesitation under acceleration (WOT) I've been experiencing...
 

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I know we're not happy with our TMIC and it's poor airflow, but hey.....
A lot of the newer performance cars are showing problems with high inlet air temps/heatsoak due to very conservative tunes, the GT500, GTO both suffer.

A guy I know just went the track 2 days ago with his new 2006 6 speed GTO.

Off the street he ran 5 or so 14 second passes at 103 MPH.

Let the car cool for over an hour, iced the intake then....

ran a 13.4 @ 109

came back around, waited in line, ran again.....

13.9 @ 102

We're talking a loss of about 50-60 HP. Ridiculous. A good tune will help a lot with this but it's sad the factory tune is so biased again't any possible knock they pull all the timing when there's some heat at the air inlet temp sensor.

All these runs were all bone stock down to the air filter, 4,000 miles on the car, 1/2 tank of gas, and all jacks/spares/seats/etc. still in the car including his 240 lb ass.

Neeless to say he's not happy about it, but it's a fact, between the drive by wire and the ECU pulling timing it seems the more HP they give us the less use it is...hell my bone stock 2001 SS Camaro ran CONSISTENT 13.1'[email protected]+ all night long, no heat problems at all.

So cheer up folks, were not the only guys with heat problems.
[/b]
Putting in a 160* t-stat helps out those GM V8s a lot. It keeps the coolant temp low enough so the ecu won't pull the timing.
 

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Putting in a 160* t-stat helps out those GM V8s a lot. It keeps the coolant temp low enough so the ecu won't pull the timing. [/b]
probably not the best solution. the stock 'stat is 180 and that's a perfectly acceptable temp for the motor to run at. if you're running hotter than that it has nothing to do with the thermostat. and running with no thermostat is more likely to make the motor run even hotter, the coolant flows thru so quickly with no restriction to slow it down that it doesn't do an effective job of absorbing the heat. so, the temp gauge is reading nice and low but the motor is really running hotter than you realize.
the ecu is also looking at more than just coolant temp for timing, its also looking at air temp and adjusting accordingly. keep water temps around the 180 mark and get some cool outside air to the motor and you'll get consistent results.
 

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Interesting read, thanks for the links! Wonder if our ECU can record abuse data for later denial of warranty claims or other such BS; i.e. max revs hit, speed, etc. It's of import to me currently as I dropped my MS6 off at the shop this morning for the hesitation under acceleration (WOT) I've been experiencing...
[/b]
Please let us know how you fared with the hesitation issue. I'm sure you're not the only one. I've seen it at WOT and low rpms.

Thanks,
Keith_MS6
 

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Please let us know how you fared with the hesitation issue. I'm sure you're not the only one. I've seen it at WOT and low rpms.

Thanks,
Keith_MS6
[/b]
Will do, they left a message for me this morning saying it's ready, but no data on what was wrong. I'm going to get it at lunch and will post what they say was wrong and they did to fix it later this afternoon. I had another thread on this that'll I'll probably renew so it's fresh...
 

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probably not the best solution. the stock 'stat is 180 and that's a perfectly acceptable temp for the motor to run at. if you're running hotter than that it has nothing to do with the thermostat. and running with no thermostat is more likely to make the motor run even hotter, the coolant flows thru so quickly with no restriction to slow it down that it doesn't do an effective job of absorbing the heat. so, the temp gauge is reading nice and low but the motor is really running hotter than you realize.
the ecu is also looking at more than just coolant temp for timing, its also looking at air temp and adjusting accordingly. keep water temps around the 180 mark and get some cool outside air to the motor and you'll get consistent results.
[/b]
The stock t-stat in those GM V8s is 192*F and dropping to a 180 or 160 works well with those cars. Guys have been doing it for years on those LS1, LS2, and LS6 engines. Now, if you are talking about a MS6, then that's a different story.
 

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Putting in a 160* t-stat helps out those GM V8s a lot. It keeps the coolant temp low enough so the ecu won't pull the timing.
[/b]

The stock t-stat in those GM V8s is 192*F and dropping to a 180 or 160 works well with those cars. Guys have been doing it for years on those LS1, LS2, and LS6 engines. Now, if you are talking about a MS6, then that's a different story.
[/b]
The coolant is not why the car is pulling timing. It is the high IAT that is causing the computer to pull timing, along with the fact that it pulls timing dramatically during all shifts. The lower thermostat is said to work well by many dyno tuners - others wont touch them. What all tuners do though is set the fans to come on at a lower temperature than stock. Running at a higher coolant temperature is actually more efficient - you will make more power - as long as your IAT stays low.
 

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The coolant is not why the car is pulling timing. It is the high IAT that is causing the computer to pull timing, along with the fact that it pulls timing dramatically during all shifts. The lower thermostat is said to work well by many dyno tuners - others wont touch them. What all tuners do though is set the fans to come on at a lower temperature than stock. Running at a higher coolant temperature is actually more efficient - you will make more power - as long as your IAT stays low.
[/b]
Some Mustang guys used to get resisters from radio shack for the IAT sensor and they would fool the ECU into thinking the the IAT temp was coller than it actually was. Unfortunately, it lasted 2-3 runs at the track before the ECU figured it out and then pulled timing. The only way to keep using the resistors at the track was to disconnect the battery to clear everything. ;) :p
 
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