Mazda 6 Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have read here how bad it is to use anything but the Autoexe springs since they are designed specifically for our car while the others are not. But I now see two people (p5freek and now Jamespeed6) using non-Autoexe with no problems in a competition environment (autocross and drag racing). It is staring to look like these other springs may be worth the money, I cant spend 500+ dollars to have the other springs imported especially when these other springs seem to be working. Any thoughts??? Any comments p5freek and Jamespeed6??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,775 Posts
I have read here how bad it is to use anything but the Autoexe springs since they are designed specifically for our car while the others are not. But I now see two people (p5freek and now Jamespeed6) using non-Autoexe with no problems in a competition environment (autocross and drag racing). It is staring to look like these other springs may be worth the money, I cant spend 500+ dollars to have the other springs imported especially when these other springs seem to be working. Any thoughts??? Any comments p5freek and Jamespeed6??
[/b]
you can get my eibach springs for a scant $125... PM me if interested
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
You most likely won't notice any problems at all, it just causes a lot of stress on the stock shocks, causing them to wear out much more rapidly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
You most likely won't notice any problems at all, it just causes a lot of stress on the stock shocks, causing them to wear out much more rapidly.
[/b]
So if I upgraded the shocks as well all should be fine? All I really want to accomplish is to lower the car a bit for looks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,775 Posts
So if I upgraded the shocks as well all should be fine? All I really want to accomplish is to lower the car a bit for looks.
[/b]
you will be fine for a while on stock shocks... Most people have been running for 30k+ miles with their eibachs on stock shocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
I must admit that I've never really understood why it is that aftermarket springs have a damaging effect on stock shocks. I suppose that the stiffer springs may "overpower" the shocks, but over the finite range of travel a shock normally experiences, I'm not sure there's a real difference between stock springs and aftermarket ones.

That said, I'm happy so far with my springs. They aren't too stiff, but the car sits just right, rides fine and is sharpened somewhat. The Mazdaspeed spring is certainly not a full race spring and this is a daily driver, so full race springs were out of the question. I would really like to get some sway bars, front and rear, which points me in the direction of Autoexe anyway. Those may need to wait for now.

As far as "design" is concerned, you basically have spring length (uncompressed) and spring rate (the force needed to compress the spring), assuming the spring diamter and perch fits the application. Design is somewhat irrelevent within a range of the first two parameters. So, while the Mazdaspeed springs were theoretically spec'd for the lighter V-6 car, they will still work on the Speed, it'll just be a little lower, that's all.

If we make the following assumptions: that the springs are 300 pound/in, the difference in weight between the V-6 and Speed is 300 pounds and the weight differential is even distributed, then the car would be 1/4" of an inch lower than intended. I can live with that. Hell, I am living with it, and happily so.

The exact height and balance of my car is not the same as if I had spent twice as much on Autoexe springs, but who can tell the difference and who cares?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,906 Posts
As far as "design" is concerned, you basically have spring length (uncompressed) and spring rate (the force needed to compress the spring), assuming the spring diamter and perch fits the application. Design is somewhat irrelevent within a range of the first two parameters. So, while the Mazdaspeed springs were theoretically spec'd for the lighter V-6 car, they will still work on the Speed, it'll just be a little lower, that's all.
[/b]
This is some of the most insightful thinking I've seen around here. More often that not, the whole "designed for" concept is taken a little too far.

You are right about shock wear with lowering springs, the shocks become overpowered. Basically, the amount of total travel the shock will have over its lifetime is finite. When you pair it with a spring that is stiffer than it was originally pair with, then you will usually have an underdampened suspension. This extra up and down movement simply uses up the finite life of the shocks faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
How much did you pay for the Mazdaspeed springs? Did you have the dealer install? They are for the 6s?

Thanks,
Dave

I must admit that I've never really understood why it is that aftermarket springs have a damaging effect on stock shocks. I suppose that the stiffer springs may "overpower" the shocks, but over the finite range of travel a shock normally experiences, I'm not sure there's a real difference between stock springs and aftermarket ones.

That said, I'm happy so far with my springs. They aren't too stiff, but the car sits just right, rides fine and is sharpened somewhat. The Mazdaspeed spring is certainly not a full race spring and this is a daily driver, so full race springs were out of the question. I would really like to get some sway bars, front and rear, which points me in the direction of Autoexe anyway. Those may need to wait for now.

As far as "design" is concerned, you basically have spring length (uncompressed) and spring rate (the force needed to compress the spring), assuming the spring diamter and perch fits the application. Design is somewhat irrelevent within a range of the first two parameters. So, while the Mazdaspeed springs were theoretically spec'd for the lighter V-6 car, they will still work on the Speed, it'll just be a little lower, that's all.

If we make the following assumptions: that the springs are 300 pound/in, the difference in weight between the V-6 and Speed is 300 pounds and the weight differential is even distributed, then the car would be 1/4" of an inch lower than intended. I can live with that. Hell, I am living with it, and happily so.

The exact height and balance of my car is not the same as if I had spent twice as much on Autoexe springs, but who can tell the difference and who cares?
[/b]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
the majority of the abuse on the stock shock isn't from the spring rate but the reduced suspension travel. when a shock is operating within it's intended range of travel the shock is seeing normal conditions. when you lower on drop springs without compensating with a shorter shock body, the shock is always in a constant state of compression near or at the bottom of it's range. This highly compressed state, in a gas charged shock puts abnormal stress on the piston and will eventually cause the shock to fail and leak quicker than it was designed to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,906 Posts
the majority of the abuse on the stock shock isn't from the spring rate but the reduced suspension travel. when a shock is operating within it's intended range of travel the shock is seeing normal conditions. when you lower on drop springs without compensating with a shorter shock body, the shock is always in a constant state of compression near or at the bottom of it's range. This highly compressed state, in a gas charged shock puts abnormal stress on the piston and will eventually cause the shock to fail and leak quicker than it was designed to.
[/b]
In the 6 the progressive bump stoppers keep the shock from getting near full compression, at least until they deteriorate in which case you may bottom out and destroy the shock anyway.

:nana: Stock shocks suck, that's all we need to know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
I must admit that I've never really understood why it is that aftermarket springs have a damaging effect on stock shocks. I suppose that the stiffer springs may "overpower" the shocks, but over the finite range of travel a shock normally experiences, I'm not sure there's a real difference between stock springs and aftermarket ones.

That said, I'm happy so far with my springs. They aren't too stiff, but the car sits just right, rides fine and is sharpened somewhat. The Mazdaspeed spring is certainly not a full race spring and this is a daily driver, so full race springs were out of the question. I would really like to get some sway bars, front and rear, which points me in the direction of Autoexe anyway. Those may need to wait for now.

As far as "design" is concerned, you basically have spring length (uncompressed) and spring rate (the force needed to compress the spring), assuming the spring diamter and perch fits the application. Design is somewhat irrelevent within a range of the first two parameters. So, while the Mazdaspeed springs were theoretically spec'd for the lighter V-6 car, they will still work on the Speed, it'll just be a little lower, that's all.

If we make the following assumptions: that the springs are 300 pound/in, the difference in weight between the V-6 and Speed is 300 pounds and the weight differential is even distributed, then the car would be 1/4" of an inch lower than intended. I can live with that. Hell, I am living with it, and happily so.

The exact height and balance of my car is not the same as if I had spent twice as much on Autoexe springs, but who can tell the difference and who cares?
[/b]
Definitely an interesting viewpoint. Not that I am any closer to deciding what I will do to lower my own car, but it is interesting to hear the 'other' side of the argument for a change. Gives me something to think about.

R

the majority of the abuse on the stock shock isn't from the spring rate but the reduced suspension travel. when a shock is operating within it's intended range of travel the shock is seeing normal conditions. when you lower on drop springs without compensating with a shorter shock body, the shock is always in a constant state of compression near or at the bottom of it's range. This highly compressed state, in a gas charged shock puts abnormal stress on the piston and will eventually cause the shock to fail and leak quicker than it was designed to.
[/b]
The question dj_petey is, how much quicker will the shocks wear out given average use? It makes a difference if the life expectancy of the shocks is shortened by only a month or two by using them in this way versus a shortened life expectancy of half or a third of its normal value. If it is shortened by only a marginal fraction, I'll be the first guy to slap 'em on my MS6. However, we don't really have any independent tests to assess this other than the few individuals who have decided to forego any warnings from fourm members.

R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
How much did you pay for the Mazdaspeed springs? Did you have the dealer install? They are for the 6s?

Thanks,
Dave
[/b]
$300 from the dealer. I installed myself with clamp type (all thread) springs compressors. I would certainly do it again by myself except I wouldn't use the spring compressors, I would just insert the assembly and jack up the control arms in the front until the shock stem poked through the strut tower. As it turns out, I had to execute option "B" with the second front spring because the compressor I was using ceased up tight as a drum taking off the second stock spring. The backs go in really easily. The whole job, including the spring screw-up, was only 2 hours (with pneumatic tools).

the majority of the abuse on the stock shock isn't from the spring rate but the reduced suspension travel. when a shock is operating within it's intended range of travel the shock is seeing normal conditions. when you lower on drop springs without compensating with a shorter shock body, the shock is always in a constant state of compression near or at the bottom of it's range. This highly compressed state, in a gas charged shock puts abnormal stress on the piston and will eventually cause the shock to fail and leak quicker than it was designed to.
[/b]
Great explination, thanks. I do think Koni's are next on the list.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top