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please pardon what is probably a stupid question: i just switched to synthetic oil recently for my 6s, on the recommendation of some of you folks here, and a couple of service techs at my mazda dealership. reading the mazda faq today, i see that it says "Mazda does not recommend the use of synthetic oil." can someone tell me why the company (and owner's manual) say one thing, and the service techs at the mazda dealership say something else? which one's right? i can't imagine synthetic oil would be bad for the engine. does mazda america just want us to buy cars more often? ;)
 

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Because it is a blanket FAQ page that covers all Mazda vehicles, this isn't surprising. I'm 99% positive that Mazda strongly recommends against using synthetic oil in their rotary engines. Given that fact, and that dino oil meets the requirements of their piston engines I'm sure they opted for the simplest answer.
 

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I'm running mobil 1 and I love it. My 6 is the first car i've put synthetic oil in, and I'll never put conventional oil in a car again
 

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QUOTE
Originally posted by soulbelly

"Mazda does not recommend the use of synthetic oil."[/b]
Mazda does not make oil and they are not getting paid to put somebody's syn oil in the car. Therefore they do not test the engine with syn oil. If they don't test and approve it, they don't recommend it.
 

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One thing to keep in mind with syn oil is due to the fact is flows so well, you can sometimes experience oil weeping past gaskets and seals easier than the regular oils. If there is any leak-path on a sealed surface, syn oil will find it easier. I beleive if you keep your oil changed at regular intervals (3000mi); most folks will not see a tangable benefit using the higher price syn oils. Syn oils do have lots of advantages overall, specially for folks who don't change their oil at a regular basis or if your engine is running at high temps or gets run very hard which will start to break down regular oils easier.

Take apart an engine that has been using a good grade regular oil that has been changed at regular intervals and also a similar engine using syn oil, I will bet from a wear factor and engine internal cleaness, there will be no measureable difference to justify paying 2 to 3 times the expense for syn oil. Even factoring in syn oils can go 10,000 miles before oil changes. I would never leave any oil in my engine for that long. Also, syn oil, being more slippery, may not provide the corrosion resistance to internal engine parts over a period of time if the engine sets unused. Regular oils seem to 'coat' the internal parts better and stay put over extended periods better that syn oils do.

Typically, one can debate regular oil verse syn oil all day. Both with provide good engine protection. Syn oils do flow better when cold and don't break down over time as easy. I've never used syn oils (but have read lots of info on them, specially on how they act in air cooled harleys) and have been just as happy with the longivity of my car engines and in my harley. Use whatever makes you feel good. I'll save my money for other stuff.
 

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I agree w/ Pulsar 110% if you change your oil every 3000miles/3 months...save your money because you won't get any benefit
 

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With respect to Pulsar's post, this is my post from an older thread (semi-synthetic talk):

For starters, the molecules in conventional motor oil are not of consistent chain length. This accounts for the huge viscosity changes at temperature extremes. The benefit of synthetic is that it is manufactured, not refined, and thus the chain length of the molecules is consistent. For example, synthetic will flow better and more consistently over a wide temperature range. Blends will have better properties, closer to full synthetic, because there have more "like" molecules.

I think you'll find that older engines that develop tiny cracks in their seals over time will be exploited by full synthetic. Those smaller molecules can find their way through those cracks resulting in slow leakage. Conventional oils having proportions of longer chained molecules will not leak through these cracks. A semi-synthetic blend may give you near synthetic properties without having to worry about leakage. For these reasons, I stick to conventional oil in my 15 year old honda.
 

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Kyler is correct.
Synthetic oil when first produced by Mobil in the 70's did not have the proper additives to compensate for gaskets designed to swell using conventional oils. That is where the myth started.
Mobil fixed the problem decades ago but some still stick to it.
But, if your gaskets leak that's not the oils fault, it's your gaskets pure and simple. Even with conventional oil those gaskets will leak sooner or later, it's just a matter of time. And, yes, you can switch from conventional to synth anytime.
I've been doing it for years in cars and motorcycles with no compatibility problems or gasket leaks or what have you.

I don't understand peoples unwillingness to accept that synthetic is vastly superior to conventional oil. In ever test, every test, it's superior in terms of being a lubricant. If flows when it's extremely cold, it holds viscosity when it's extremely hot, it has zero ash content to prevent "coking", it retains it lubricating properties LONGER thus offsetting it's higher cost. But, it's a better lubricant anyway thus it obviously costs more as it provides better protection.

Sure, you may never use synthetic and it may never make a difference to you because modern conventional oils are very good. But, if you want the better lubricant, synthetic is it no question.
The only thing anyone has to answer for themselves is; are you willing to spend the extra money for the added protection which you may never use?

I will say one thing for sure though. I will always, always, always, use synthetic in a turbo engine
as those turbo bearing need lubricant and conventional oil is simply playing the odds when it comes to things that spin over 100,000 rpm in extreme heat. Synthetic has it's place. You have to decide if you want to pay. But, it's simply a better lubricant without question.

Tome
 

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QUOTE
Originally posted by M-006

I will say one thing for sure though.  I will always, always, always, use synthetic in a turbo engine
as those turbo bearing need lubricant and conventional oil is simply playing the odds when it comes to things that spin over 100,000 rpm in extreme heat.  Synthetic has it's place.  You have to decide if you want to pay.  But, it's simply a better lubricant without question.

Tome[/b]
Amen brother! I used synthetic (Mobil 1) in my twin turbo Supra from day one, and I never shut the engine off without at least 2-3 minutes of cool down time for those turbos. I also changed my synthetic every 2000-2500 miles. At $6k to replace a pair of turbos, it's not worth taking a chance!

Also, if you change the oil yourself, you can do synthetic for less than the cost of a conventional oil change at Jiffy Lube.
 

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"Slipperiness" has nothing to do with whether a metal surfaces is still protected against corrosion or not. Do you have any idea how DIFFICULT it is to get oil off a metal surface? Trust me, any metal surface that has had oil on it- any kind of oil- is very well protected against oxidation. Whether it is protected against wear when moving parts come in contact is a different issue, as the film thickness needed is several orders of magnitude higher than what is needed for a hermetic barrier.

-Alt
 

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Supra turbo, sweet!

What happened to it? Or, do you still have it?

It's amazing how well those cars along with the RX7 turbo held/hold their value.

Those Supra's were monsters. :)

Tome
 

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Thinking about getting Redline SYNTHETIC Oil and Redline Tranny Oil anybody heard anything about it?
Good Idea? or Bad Idea?
 

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I have used redline tranny oil with excellent results on a subaru, cant tell you about the oil.
 

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QUOTE
Originally posted by GiZiM


            Thinking about getting Redline SYNTHETIC Oil and Redline Tranny Oil anybody heard anything about it?
Good Idea? or Bad Idea?[/b]

I'm using the tranny oil and I love it. Shifts smoother. I'm using mobil one right now in the engine, but redline is great stuff also. Redline is more expensive than mobil one, so I thought I'd try mobil one and see what I think.
 

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where do you get redline transmission fluid? i've checked the auto parts stores in my area, and they don't have it. two of the places never heard of the stuff. is it an internet-order thing?
 

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QUOTE
But, it's simply a better lubricant without question.[/b]


Synthetic oil has no peer when it comes to predictable and consistent lubrication. Even if the basic lubrication qualities were the same, the characteristics of synthetic oil that insure reliable performance cannot be denied. Let's compare:

Molecular consistency:
Organic: Multiple molecular lengths
Synthetic: Molecular configuration uniform.

Why important: Lighter organic molecules tend to evaporate in the heat of the engine environment, eventually losing up to 25% of the volume. The loss of the shorter (and more volatile) length chains alters the original composition of the oil, affects its flow qualities and temperature rating. Synthetic oils are "designer molecules". There are no smaller chains with no tendancy to evaporate under heat (see flash point below).

Flash point:
Synthetic oil burns at almost twice the Ferenheit temperature as traditional oil. It remains consistent under extreme conditions with no degradation, thinning, boiling or evacation from bearing surfaces due to vaporization. Temperatures that would severely degrade traditional oil does not affect the lubrication qualities of synthetic. Jet aircraft engines will not run on standard oil. Synthetic is required. Race cars and other high performance engines used to use caster bean oil for its superior qualities. Synthetic has replace caster bean for high stress environments.

Saturation:
Traditional oils are poly-unsaturated while synthetic oils are fully saturated. Traditional oils will combine with crankcase polutants to form new and unpredictable molecular compounds, severely compromising the viscosity rating of the oil. Synthetic oil, being fully saturated (no open chain molecular sites able to bind with other organic compounds) and are not affected by the presense of pollutants, bypass gasses, fuel dilution, or water.

Consistency:
Traditional oils are treated with viscosity modifiers to produce the traditional variable viscosity ratings (example: 10W40). Synthetic oil is designed to be a particular rating by virtue of its molecular configuration. Usage does not modify its performance whereas traditional oil gradually loses their additives. 10W40 becomes 10W30 over time, for example. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is a must to maintain consistency when using traditional oil. The extended changes recommended, mostly marketing in my opinion, are too long to insure that the oil is maintaining its designed qualities, let alone guarantee the filter is not bypassing. Wait that long and change your oil. Notice how much smoother the engine becomes after the change. Not a good sign.

Engine Cleanliness:
Traditional oil will form compounds with crankcase polution and recipitate deposits to the case of the engine. Synthetic oils cannot combine with crankcase chemistry and thus will not form sludge or other undesirable compounds to clog oil passages or retain dirt inside the engine. Because synthetic oils will suspend dirt and other chemisty, those particles have a greater chance of being removed by the filter.

Cold Weather performance:
Synthetic oil will flow at -60º F. where traditional oil is wax. Starting a synthetic oil equiped engine when it is 0º F. is like starting traditional oil when it is 40º. The engine runs effortlessly verses exhibiting the typical stress when using traditional oil at low temperatures. Cold weather operation before warm up is not nice on engine bearings and cylinder walls when the oil viscosity approaches jello.

Dirt:
Use a 1 micron aircraft quality oil filter and you might never have to change synthetic oil as it doesn't degrade. Traditional oil would stay just as clean, but would be compromised over time by chemical bonding altering its structure (see saturation above).

Expensive car manufacturers are not stupid:
BMW and other premium cars insist that their engines be lubricated with sythetic oil. BMW warns owners to change oil ASAP if anything else is used. Using synthetic oil with regular changes provides the level of protection to the engine that maximizes its life. Certainly, it is more expensive up front, but the benefits will be realized in smoother performance, higher gas mileage, lower oil temperatures, greater resistance to damage if a coolant system failure raises the engine temperature, and ultimately a lower cost of operation. We spend $20,000+ for a car and complain about spending an additional $10 every three months to protect this expensive investment. It doesn't make sense. Quality maintenance is part of the expensive of a car.

LG
 
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