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All this talk about failing pre cats has got me spooked. My cars at the 160k mark and I'm gonna eventually get headers but need some info.

I need to have cats with either system.

Now for all the owners or ones who have tested them, did you get any CEL's at all? Pass inspections at all?

In NC there are emissions tests and they are tested via OBD II. All emissions numbers are scanned and calculated from the OBD II scan. Any CEL=instant fail.

So with the two pre cats being deleted with either system, does the dual cat setup with the CPE, or the single cat setup with the MSDS do enough for the cars emissions monitoring?
 

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I believe that you will need O2 simulators on both to avoid CEL
and I'm not sure if inspection will not figure out you have O2 simulators

I'm also wondering why can't we just get a custom made pipe from headers to the CAT including the Y pipe.
that way we would be removing the precat from the equation without spending too much (about 200$ I assume)
for the purpose of my car I don't need performance upgrades but would gladly take any mods that avoids my engine to blow
 

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QUOTE (Mazda 6s GT @ Jan 11 2010, 11:26 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1629146
All this talk about failing pre cats has got me spooked. My cars at the 160k mark and I'm gonna eventually get headers but need some info.

I need to have cats with either system.

Now for all the owners or ones who have tested them, did you get any CEL's at all? Pass inspections at all?

In NC there are emissions tests and they are tested via OBD II. All emissions numbers are scanned and calculated from the OBD II scan. Any CEL=instant fail.

So with the two pre cats being deleted with either system, does the dual cat setup with the CPE, or the single cat setup with the MSDS do enough for the cars emissions monitoring?[/b]
I have the CPE Headers and i get a cell all the time, ive heard mixed things about the simulators working, some say it worked others say it didn't, The metro areas of Nevada do similar testing as NY, not as strict as California but you might have problems with either set if the simulators don't work, you can reset the computer and that will clear the check engine light but it takes a few drive cycles for all the sensors to come back on line, so even if you test your car after you've cleared the code they still wont pass you cause the sensors wont be on line.

The person who would know more about the o2 simulators is The Great NY.
I haven't tried them to see if they work, my car is registered in a part of Nevada that has no smog check, saved me many headaches, i can pretty much do whatever to my car, which is how it should be. Stupid smog checks. lol
 

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Well I know a forum member that has cp-e headers and he fail emissions here in TORONTO CANADA. I emailed joey at Nautilus performance and asked him the difference between the two headers and this is what he responded.

The main cat we run with is Ceramic cat that heat up more and burn fuel better than metal cats this particular cat can be used in California too which is CARB legal. Now I can tell you most people pass emissions from their feedback I can't guarantee it either but as far as visual inspections is another story. The CPE use two smaller cats to try to increase flow but use metal cats too both CPE and MSDS lose the pre-cats which is used when the engine is cold mostly. I can weld you in some O2 bungs behind the main cat so that your ECM will not throw a code too. Joey

So I will give them a try. My engine is shot [cats killer] already and will need replacing so I need to replace oem cats and pass emissions too.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the replies.


Oh, and how many o2 sensors do our cars have and where are they located. I never have looked into it.


Anybody else that has experience, please post.
 

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I'm thinking about getting the CPE headers for my 6s, was wondering how hard it is to get to the oil filter after install, its a bitch as is with the stock exhaust
 

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I've had the CPE headers with CATs on for about 18mo here in NC and honestly, I can't recommend them. They are much louder in the cabin and are very buzzy around 3-4k rpm. This I could live with, but I have spent A LOT of time trying to solve the CEL issue to no avail.

I get the P0159 - Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank1, Sensor2). This is the rear O2 sensor on the CAT furthest from the engine. Basically, the CAT is not coming up to temperature fast enough. I have tried the following:

1) Replaced the O2 sensor. - Result: No change.
2) Switched bank1 & bank2 Sensor. - Result: no Change.
3) Applied insulating header wrap from the engine, down the header tubes, around the collector all the way to the CAT. I did not wrap the CAT. - Result: No change.
4) Installed O2 simulator. Triple checked all the connections; soldered joints; did all the things they say to do; got the flashing LED indicating it was connected properly and working. - Result: More CEL codes - O2 sensor inactivity. I even switched the simulator to the rear O2 of the other bank that had been working fine to see if the simulator could really simulate - Result: More CEL codes - O2 sensor inactivity.

I have been able to get the car inspected once because after clearing the code, it took 3-4days of run cycles to come back, so on the 3rd day I took it in and it passed. Later that night, the CEL was back on. Unfortunately, now it comes on the same day I clear it. My inspection is not due til Nov 2010, so I'm good for a while. I'll likely be unloading the car before the inspection is due again.

Sorry I can't offer a solution.

As for the oil filter change - it isn't any better. Perhaps worse because it's messier.
 

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QUOTE (play_fast_tom @ Jan 14 2010, 01:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1629711
.... was wondering how hard it is to get to the oil filter after install, its a bitch as is with the stock exhaust[/b]


There must me something big-time different between the '03 and '05. I love how easy it is to drop the oil filter.
 

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QUOTE (CanyonRider @ Jan 16 2010, 06:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1630212
I've had the CPE headers with CATs on for about 18mo here in NC and honestly, I can't recommend them. They are much louder in the cabin and are very buzzy around 3-4k rpm. This I could live with, but I have spent A LOT of time trying to solve the CEL issue to no avail.

I get the P0159 - Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank1, Sensor2). This is the rear O2 sensor on the CAT furthest from the engine. Basically, the CAT is not coming up to temperature fast enough. I have tried the following:

1) Replaced the O2 sensor. - Result: No change.
2) Switched bank1 & bank2 Sensor. - Result: no Change.
3) Applied insulating header wrap from the engine, down the header tubes, around the collector all the way to the CAT. I did not wrap the CAT. - Result: No change.
4) Installed O2 simulator. Triple checked all the connections; soldered joints; did all the things they say to do; got the flashing LED indicating it was connected properly and working. - Result: More CEL codes - O2 sensor inactivity. I even switched the simulator to the rear O2 of the other bank that had been working fine to see if the simulator could really simulate - Result: More CEL codes - O2 sensor inactivity.

I have been able to get the car inspected once because after clearing the code, it took 3-4days of run cycles to come back, so on the 3rd day I took it in and it passed. Later that night, the CEL was back on. Unfortunately, now it comes on the same day I clear it. My inspection is not due til Nov 2010, so I'm good for a while. I'll likely be unloading the car before the inspection is due again.

Sorry I can't offer a solution.

As for the oil filter change - it isn't any better. Perhaps worse because it's messier.[/b]
I was getting P0158 and P0159 codes with the O2 simulator. I ordered another one and it was giving me the same code. I got a magnum tuning o2 simulator and it finally cleared the codes so I could pass inspection. Pricey but it worked. BTW I have MSDS headers and a high flow cat.
 

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QUOTE (chilimax21 @ Jan 16 2010, 10:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1630335
I was getting P0158 and P0159 codes with the O2 simulator. I ordered another one and it was giving me the same code. I got a magnum tuning o2 simulator and it finally cleared the codes so I could pass inspection. Pricey but it worked. BTW I have MSDS headers and a high flow cat.[/b]
So this fixed the problem? Ive got the CPE headers. Ive had the same codes since ive installed them. Im guessing i need 2 of these? Their web site claims you gain HP by adding these, that it causes the computer to give it more fuel, did you notice any performance increase? How hard is it to install these?
 

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Yeah just ignore all that fuel mileage stuff. What I did notice is that the response is faster than the o2 simulator one. It also has adjustable voltage. What they both mean is that the voltage goes from 0-1.0V then back down to 0, alternating min and max voltages at a rate of about 1 sec., whereas the o2 simulator does it slower in about 2-3 sec. Voltage adjustment is from 0-2 volts , but was advised to keep it as close to under 1.0 volt. You can also eliminate the heater circuit thru the use of an adjustable pot. Yes, you need 2 of them. They are kinda big cause it has a heatsink mounted on it. You basically cut the o2 sensor wires off and attach the wires from the simulator to the wires you cut off. I opted not to use the heater cicuit as I don't have a prob with that. No CEL's for a month so far.
 

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QUOTE (chilimax21 @ Jan 18 2010, 11:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1630605
Yeah just ignore all that fuel mileage stuff. What I did notice is that the response is faster than the o2 simulator one. It also has adjustable voltage. What they both mean is that the voltage goes from 0-1.0V then back down to 0, alternating min and max voltages at a rate of about 1 sec., whereas the o2 simulator does it slower in about 2-3 sec. Voltage adjustment is from 0-2 volts , but was advised to keep it as close to under 1.0 volt. You can also eliminate the heater circuit thru the use of an adjustable pot. Yes, you need 2 of them. They are kinda big cause it has a heatsink mounted on it. You basically cut the o2 sensor wires off and attach the wires from the simulator to the wires you cut off. I opted not to use the heater cicuit as I don't have a prob with that. No CEL's for a month so far.[/b]
Im not sure what the heater circuit is or an adjustable pot, so it sounds like its pretty easy to install these, whats the other thing they show? Is that the button that adjusts the volts? how does this wire in?
 

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There is a wiring diagram on the website. pretty simple install. Whoever needs help on the install, pm me.
 

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I recently got the Nautilus Performance headers from Joey installed, and it hasn't turned on the CEL so far. I have a metal core high flow cat, and I don't have simulators either. I can't comment on whether or not I can pass emissions testing, because I don't have to get tested until 2013, and we should be eliminating emissions testing in the next year or so in my city so I don't think I have to worry about it. For what it's worth, going from 3 cats down to 1 high flow metal cat made the car smell worse than before.

Joey helped me weld in a couple bungs for the downstream O2 sensors in behind the main cat, so the O2 sensor has to be relocated much further down the exhaust than before, which requires extending the wiring. Here's a picture of what mine looks like. Mine is an '06, so the main cat section looks completely different from the '03-'05, but the idea is the same. You can see the two O2 sensors directly behind the cat.





QUOTE (Mazda 6s GT @ Jan 12 2010, 08:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1629373
Thanks for the replies.


Oh, and how many o2 sensors do our cars have and where are they located. I never have looked into it.


Anybody else that has experience, please post.[/b]
We have 4, one upstream and one downstream of the precat on each bank. When stock, the downstream one is after the precat but before the main cat. Headers will eliminate the precat, that's why the O2 sensors have to be extended and relocated behind the main cat to prevent throwing the CEL.
 

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QUOTE (Awong124 @ Jan 20 2010, 09:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1631206
I recently got the Nautilus Performance headers from Joey installed, and it hasn't turned on the CEL so far. I have a metal core high flow cat, and I don't have simulators either. I can't comment on whether or not I can pass emissions testing, because I don't have to get tested until 2013, and we should be eliminating emissions testing in the next year or so in my city so I don't think I have to worry about it. For what it's worth, going from 3 cats down to 1 high flow metal cat made the car smell worse than before.

Joey helped me weld in a couple bungs for the downstream O2 sensors in behind the main cat, so the O2 sensor has to be relocated much further down the exhaust than before, which requires extending the wiring. Here's a picture of what mine looks like. Mine is an '06, so the main cat section looks completely different from the '03-'05, but the idea is the same. You can see the two O2 sensors directly behind the cat.






We have 4, one upstream and one downstream of the precat on each bank. When stock, the downstream one is after the precat but before the main cat. Headers will eliminate the precat, that's why the O2 sensors have to be extended and relocated behind the main cat to prevent throwing the CEL.[/b]

Was it hard to extending the wiring or just a matter of splicing wires together. How much did shipping and duty's cost you to ship to CANADA. Total cost of headers and how long they took to receive them? I'm going to be ordering them from joey at Nautilus Performance after I come back from my vacation from Brazil.
 

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QUOTE (marzbar2 @ Jan 23 2010, 09:14 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1631730
Was it hard to extending the wiring or just a matter of splicing wires together. How much did shipping and duty's cost you to ship to CANADA. Total cost of headers and how long they took to receive them? I'm going to be ordering them from joey at Nautilus Performance after I come back from my vacation from Brazil.[/b]
I got it done at a shop, so I don't know the difficulty of the install. I assume it's just splicing the wires. The shop I took it to soldered the wires, but Joey includes some connectors where you can just screw them together. Shipping was around $80 and duties were like $100. The cost of the headers is what's listed on their website. I got them within a couple weeks.
 

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QUOTE (Awong124 @ Jan 23 2010, 07:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=1631851
I got it done at a shop, so I don't know the difficulty of the install. I assume it's just splicing the wires. The shop I took it to soldered the wires, but Joey includes some connectors where you can just screw them together. Shipping was around $80 and duties were like $100. The cost of the headers is what's listed on their website. I got them within a couple weeks.[/b]
Thanks for the reply, shipping and duties were not that bad. Is the sound raspy at all? What exhaust are you running?
 
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