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Discussion Starter #1
First off, I've taken some flack here for what has been seen as my less than stellar opinion of this car, read on and get where I'm coming from.


I think I need to fill in a bit on my background first, 47 years old, cars as a noodle around hobby since I was 13. (I was rebuilding Turbo 400’s and Pontiac V8's by age 14-15.)

Had MANY classic muscle cars, sleepers, sports cars, turbo pocket rockets ect in the last 30 years, anything from a full race 13.5 compression solid lifter roller cammed dual quad tunnel rammed 1970 RAIV-400 Pontiac V8 stuffed in a lightweight 1972 sleeper/stripper Catalina to more recently an LS1 Camaro SS & my low 10 second Talon which I still own. I've been working on the Talon for 13 years now as a hobby. I do ALL my own work, porting, mods, rebuilding.

Been there, seen darn near all of it in the last 35 years.
I live only 10 minutes away from the drag strip, so I’ve seen A LOT of cars run in 35 years down the ¼, also Elkhart Lake road course, Slinger Speedway, the late Hales Corners Speedway…I’ve seen/been in a bit of it all and then some.


As a precursor to my “stand” on the MS6:


Most all cars have issues, face it. Be honest, realistic. Just a few off the top of my head:
Nylon timing gear teeth on the old 1960-70’s Pontiac V8’s …very dumb, teeth in the oil pan plugging the oil pickup = motor death.

The new & mighty Z06 Vette likes to split rear ends, bone stock. mind you.

The Ford GT, a semi exotic car with more issues than one would’ve ever expected.

The new GT500 Mustang, it runs like it has 80 HP less than it is putting out, to say nothing of its obscene price. Lead sled?

The LS1 and its piston slap, F body warped rotors, LT1 optispark. Pitiful power window motors.

LS2 and its sensitivity to high air inlet temps rolling off major power in summer heat.

The Mustang GT and new GM perf vehicles and their overly active torque management killing the HP to the wheels.

CTS V like to trash rear ends.

The 03-04 Cobra and the infamous head tick.

Dodge IROC R/T Spirit R/T and its head/timing belt issues. (still cool cars for their time)

Syclone head issues.

The STI and its need for reflash for certain year and questionable drive train and the boxer's typical oil leaks to say nothing of the cheap build quality of the interior, pitiful stereo.

The EVO and its clutch/tranny/transfer case woes.

3000 GT VR4/Stealth TT and its many quality issues.

DSM's and their infamous transfer case leak, 2nd Gen crank walk, crappy tranny.

The castrated 220 HP DOHC 3.4 V6 GM had in the N/A GTP Grand Prix and Z34 Lumina, a 10 cent oil ring caused major leaks and $1200 repairs.

The auto tranny in the new GXP/SS Impala GM V8 FWD likes to crap out VERY early.

New Civic Si tranny woes, the brand new 2006 270 HP Camry SE V6 auto has tranny woes too…..

Nissan 350Z and their wonderful front tire wear out issues.

Rotary motors issues, seals, oil consumption....

I could go on all night, it’s getting pretty obvious.


Now on to the MS6.....

We currently have...power loss issues, may be sorted out soon with the most current reflash? Not sure what else will crop up for broad based problems. We'll see.

This car IMO could've been an incredible car for it’s price point., a slightly bit bigger twin scroll turbo with good boost to redline, and AWD that really is AWD, minimum 245 tires, 20% stiffer suspension, 250 pounds less weight with better F/R dist. a tranny that likes to shift, get rid of the numb steering feedback....I could go on, but....that's the real shortcomings folks, sorry, reality.

BUT…..Realizing the issues with most all vehicles, overall, this is STILL ONE HELL OF A GREAT CAR OVERALL.

And right now...$6000+ off MSRP...you’d be a fool not to get one if it's your thing. I did.

I love mine, Less than $23k for a GT..... deal of the decade IMO....does not mean it's perfect or I'm 100% happy with the decisions Mazda made with this car.

Let's see where time takes us guys, it's a bit too heavy to ever be a real monster unless you god forbid strip it, but ...in 5 years these things WILL BE pretty quick with mods. Mark my words. There is some potential here.

We need a tuner to fall in love with this car and help us along with mods.

Overall it's a very cool car, stealthy, unknown and laid back looking with the potential to be pretty darn quick with the typical upgrades. Good fit, finish and overall offering.

So cut me some slack when/if I diss it, I only want things to get better.
 

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Everyone has their opinions. Personally, I love the car the way it is. If I wanted a drag racer, I would have bought one. You're right though, all cars have short comings but this one can't be beat for the price! $21,860 for mine OTD.
 

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i appreciate your honesty and willingness to not single the ms6 out...youve obviously got a lot of great experience and knowledge.

i would however change the title... i wouldnt necessarily consider it a must read
 

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Good to hear the opinion of a veteran like yourself (1 page story for a 1 paragraph opinion, but still good to hear).

IMHO the MS6 is the best bang for your buck compared to any 4dr out there. I also believe that if Mazda were shooting for the "Fast and the Furious" crowd they could have made this car perfect for them. But, that's not what they were going for. I'm excited to see what Mazda has in store for us over the next 5-10 years.
 

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To tell you the truth I think people are taking exception to your tone and delivery more than what you're actually saying. I for one think your posts are pretty honest and cut to the chase which is a good thing.
Love mine MS6 BTW...I got it in Feb and paid 29,500...I am happy with the deal I got as it I still feel it is a great value at that price. Do I wish I had gotten the deal you guys did...of course I do, but IMO this car is a legit 30 K car for what it is.
I was going to get an S4 but did not think it was woth the extra 20 K ...not meaning the S4 is not a nicer car...it is, but just not 20 k nicer...I bought an old porsche instead and still have money left over for mods. I also agree that this car has a lot of potential if we can just get some tuning.
 

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Nylon timing gear teeth on the old 1960-70’s Pontiac V8’s …very dumb, teeth in the oil pan plugging the oil pickup = motor death.

[/b]
:laugh: Had this happen in my 69 Camaro, although at the time it was an I6 250c.i.

Unlike your situation though, mine took off 6 teeth, side by side. Engine stopped right there, never to run in that car again.

I have done my best to read the mass quanity of posts (good and bad) about this car. And although everyone has varying positions on it, I knew ahead of time what this car was. Granted when I bought it (will be 9 months tomorrow) I knew nothing about the powerloss.

What I did know is that I wanted a car that was more reliable than my current cars, something a little more refined and grown-up than an STI/EVO. So far it has been everything and more.

Human nature will eventually overtake my common sense, and at that time there will most likely be many more aftermarket solutions. This car has tons of potential, not all of it realized from the factory, but so few are these days. For the ride, the styling and the fun factor it is well worth it. But again...no one bought this car with a gun to their head.
 

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This car IMO could've been an incredible car for it’s price point., a slightly bit bigger twin scroll turbo with good boost to redline, and AWD that really is AWD, minimum 245 tires, 20% stiffer suspension, 250 pounds less weight with better F/R dist. a tranny that likes to shift, get rid of the numb steering feedback....I could go on, but....that's the real shortcomings folks, sorry, reality.
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I really don't understand how people can bitch so much about a $23,000 car doesn't give them $40,000 worth of car. If Mazda gave you everything above, you would not be paying $23,000. I would think you would have figured it out with all your years of car experience. Mazda is in all likelyhood losing money on this car as it is. Why on earth would they give you more?.....and please don't tell me you would have gladly paid $40k if the car came with all the above.

Am I missing something? Is there a car out there with all of the above for $23,000? Please show me where.

Why did you buy this car? Almost everything listed in your "wish list" is instantly noticable as missing during the first test drive. Did you not test drive the car? The test drive is reality.

To say this car could have been an incredibly car at this price point is absolute fantasy. Simple economics dictate that this will never happen. Again, you of all people should know this.

I'm just baffled by the these kinds of posts.
 

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How is this a "must read" ? How is it even a separate thread? You've said these same opinions over and over again throughout this site. Are we supposed to thank you for copying/pasting them all here in one place? The only one you may have left out is how much you hate the color black and that you will never buy another black car again.
 

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The new & mighty Z06 Vette likes to split rear ends, bone stock. mind you.
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yeah I've heard of these...500 ftlb is a lot of torque to handle
The Ford GT, a semi exotic car with more issues than one would’ve ever expected.
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I've said this many times before and everyone yells at me saying their build quality is great!
The new GT500 Mustang, it runs like it has 80 HP less than it is putting out, to say nothing of its obscene price. Lead sled?
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I think every mustang has had this problem...except like the 03 cobra...underrated and very fast
The LS1 and its piston slap, F body warped rotors, LT1 optispark. Pitiful power window motors.
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Oh man i had to help my buddy change his power window motor...what a PITA!
The Mustang GT and new GM perf vehicles and their overly active torque management killing the HP to the wheels.
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This can be turned off in most cases with the push of a button though I thought
CTS V like to trash rear ends.
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Same deal as the z06...a lot of torque
The castrated 220 HP DOHC 3.4 V6 GM had in the N/A GTP Grand Prix and Z34 Lumina, a 10 cent oil ring caused major leaks and $1200 repairs.
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3.4L bites...3.8 rules!! (I just say that because my brother had a 3.4 impala and I had a 3.8 Grand prix and liked to bust his chops) seriously though the 3.8L is a great engine but underpowered for its size
The auto tranny in the new GXP/SS Impala GM V8 FWD likes to crap out VERY early.
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This is because the FWD auto tranny in those cars was originaly deigned for like 150hp applications in the early 90's (I know this because I worked for a company that designed the bearings in almost all the GM tranys for the last 20 years) the 200hp Grand Prixs had tranny problems because over time it was too much for those but these 300hp....
This car IMO could've been an incredible car for it’s price point., a slightly bit bigger twin scroll turbo with good boost to redline, and AWD that really is AWD, minimum 245 tires, 20% stiffer suspension, 250 pounds less weight with better F/R dist. a tranny that likes to shift, get rid of the numb steering feedback....I could go on, but....that's the real shortcomings folks, sorry, reality.

BUT…..Realizing the issues with most all vehicles, overall, this is STILL ONE HELL OF A GREAT CAR OVERALL.
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with all that stuff added the car would not be near the price we pay for it! Keep in mind that the MS6 is a grocery getter...a fast one but still a grocery getter..so the huge turbo (which I personally would not want because I prefer the minimum spoolup and pheniminal midrange power), and the super stiff suspension (our car is pretty stiff compared to most sedans) would not be appealing to whoever mazda was targeting the car at. Personaly I agree that I want a stiffer suspension but car manufacturers cator to the majority.

I have to disagree with you on the numb steering though, I think the steering is pretty responsive, go drive a luxury car (caddy, audi, lexus, lincoln) you can barely tell the car is connected to the road. Our car is not a sports car (RX8, corvette, or even the STi and EVO) so I feel that it's responsiveness is quite adequate for it's application/competition (Legacy GT, A4, etc)
 

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with all that stuff added the car would not be near the price we pay for it! Keep in mind that the MS6 is a grocery getter...a fast one but still a grocery getter..so the huge turbo (which I personally would not want because I prefer the minimum spoolup and pheniminal midrange power), and the super stiff suspension (our car is pretty stiff compared to most sedans) would not be appealing to whoever mazda was targeting the car at. Personaly I agree that I want a stiffer suspension but car manufacturers cator to the majority.

I have to disagree with you on the numb steering though, I think the steering is pretty responsive, go drive a luxury car (caddy, audi, lexus, lincoln) you can barely tell the car is connected to the road. Our car is not a sports car (RX8, corvette, or even the STi and EVO) so I feel that it's responsiveness is quite adequate for it's application/competition (Legacy GT, A4, etc)
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+1
 

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...This Car is billed as a Sport Sedan. That's the whole problem..It should have revolutionized by having an Amazing track sport sedan. Trying to run with Legacy/Audi/ whatever was a mistake, because Mazda isn't known for that..they are known for Zoom Zoom Sportness!!! Any grown up demographic that they were trying to target would rather buy an Audi anyways Why would they buy a Mazda???
 

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mazda don't get any respect. They have made a comeback since the release of mazda6 in 03 but before then they really had medicure products.
 

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With the current rebates, this car is a very nice bargain.
As for respect, I guess that all depends what market Mazda wants respect from. The average Joe who buys a car to get from point A to point B, a car is nothing but a means of transportation, has a shelf life of about 5 hard stop and go years, and makes up 75% of the market, Mazda will be getting that respect soon. The magazines are already starting to give them that.
As for sports car respect, that is a little different story. Not sure that is the segment that sells the most cars, so not sure they are too concerned about that image. Rather they are more concerned with being different from the bland civic, accord, camry, corolla, altima and so on.
Where do you classify this car. Without the turbo and AWD it competes against the Accord, Camry, Altima, Maxima, Passat and a few others. The family hauler category.
No it will not hang with the new S4, but it is much better than my Dad's 2000 bi-turbo S4. I like the ride better, the power delivery, the shifting, the room and the PRICE. More room than a WRX, quieter than an STi, not a rice magnet like the EVO, nor the quality of a Mitsu (thank God). To me the 6 is on par with the TSX, 3 Series BMW, Audi A4 with the S-Line package, V6 Passat, the new lexus GS250 line and the 4 door Accord V6. At 26080 out the door for a GT model, it blows the other cars I listed away in both personal transport and as a sports sedan.
Soul of a Sports car? Another 50-75 hp and it would be there... thanks for the aftermarket.
For the average Joe, this is a sports car with 4 doors.


Thanks,
Jason
 

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suspension doesn't need to be stiffer

steering doesn't need more feedback. what kind of car did you want? a sports sedan or a sports car?
 

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suspension doesn't need to be stiffer

steering doesn't need more feedback. what kind of car did you want? a sports sedan or a sports car?
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Yes! (oh, I thought you said 'and', not 'or') :nana:
 

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it could definitly use some aggressive exhaust note. Currently with just an intake my car sounds like a vacume.
 

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it could definitly use some aggressive exhaust note. Currently with just an intake my car sounds like a vacume.
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My wife claims mine sounds like and asthmatic since I put the CAI on. Got to get an exhaust. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
suspension doesn't need to be stiffer

steering doesn't need more feedback. what kind of car did you want? a sports sedan or a sports car?
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Your opinion versus mine. It has too much roll and lean for a sports sedan IMO.


Seriously......the folks that say my wants would've added too much to the price, I disagree.

One size up turbo, near zero cost (I'm not talking monster turbo, just ONE size up, this would take the heat load off the TMIC!)

Better boost to reline map, no cost.

The suspension, zero cost to stiffen things up a bit more, like it or not folks.... for a 275 HP "our fastest sedean ever" it has TOO much body lean/roll in turns. I'm not looking for an STI, but it certainly could be better.

245 tires...minor cost.

Weight loss, yes, probably not doable, not sure what you'd save on, light 17" rims perhaps?

The numb steering, (yes it IS numb, especially for a Mazda) probably no cost to have just sorted it out a bit better.

I did forget to list the on/off switch clutch as a negative, I would hope for 2007 it gets better (retrofit? )

To the folks that keep insisting I bought the wrong car, WTF is with you, do you live in some land of denial where everything is seen through rose colored glasses?

I'm getting to old to try and fool myself, I'll call things as I see em...good and bad.




I really don't understand how people can bitch so much about a $23,000 car doesn't give them $40,000 worth of car. If Mazda gave you everything above, you would not be paying $23,000. I would think you would have figured it out with all your years of car experience. Mazda is in all likelyhood losing money on this car as it is. Why on earth would they give you more?.....and please don't tell me you would have gladly paid $40k if the car came with all the above.

Am I missing something? Is there a car out there with all of the above for $23,000? Please show me where.

Why did you buy this car? Almost everything listed in your "wish list" is instantly noticable as missing during the first test drive. Did you not test drive the car? The test drive is reality.

To say this car could have been an incredibly car at this price point is absolute fantasy. Simple economics dictate that this will never happen. Again, you of all people should know this.

I'm just baffled by the these kinds of posts.
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And I'm baffled at how you left out this second part of my post....
"BUT…..Realizing the issues with most all vehicles, overall, this is STILL ONE HELL OF A GREAT CAR OVERALL"
 
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