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Discussion Starter #1
OK. Here are a couple things that bug me about this auto shift ATX in comparison to my AutoStick on my Dodge.

First it will hit the rev limiter and bounch back and forth indefinitly. Definitly Annoying put kinda cool because you have to learn the shift points.

Second if you are in 6th and Floor it or any other gear for that matter it down shifts. What gives? That is more annoying than it not shifting to the next gear when you hit the rev limiter.

Third the way it down shifts for ya when slowing down. you cannot down shift yourself because you might end up going from 3rd to 1st on accident. Urgh!!!!

I was on the Highway this morning and was in 6th and gave it good gas. All I wanted was a little more pick up without down shifting. I didnt want to drop down into 2nd and hit the limiter and basically almost die because I wasnt expecting it to down shift and the fact I wasnt accelerating any more(I had people coming up behing me. This is stupid. If its a manual let it be a manual.

My Stratus would stay in the gear you put it in until you moved it out of gear and would shift upon hitting the limiter. Just weird and some getting used to I guess.
 

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You just control when the gears change that's it. It's still automatic, even when you start slowing down. I don't consider that piece of crap manual transmission.....get a Real Manual with a Fuckin clutch... :irate:
 

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actually i thought it was a good feature it doesn't change gears for you. it does give you more control than other manumatic transmissions. my loaner car is an atx v6 and its no where near as fun as my mtx v6. but for an automatic i think the manual mode is pretty nice.

but if you're looking for more control did get a mtx.
 

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When I first got my 6 for a number of reasons I got an ATX. At the time I thought the 'manual' mode was a neat feature.

I've used it three times in two years and my opinion is it is mostly a waste. (I imagine it would be good on snow/ice to control the lowere gearing and possibly on steep roads - like in the mountains - for the same reason.)

In the end, if you want a manual, get a manual.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have driven a Manual for 9 or 10 years but I can no longer drive them so I had to find a car that had aleast this option. It is fun but I hate how it downshifts for you. My other one (Stratus Sedan R/T) didnt at all which is more like a manual.

Its like If I wanted to down shift I would have tapped it forward a few time.
 

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I have had manuals in the past .Our previous car was a 2002 Sonata with the same type of ATX although it was only a 4 speed.We get an ATX because the 6 is for the wife.When I drive I use the manual mode but only for quick starts at a light or to downshift to pass.You have to understand that this transmission is a compromise and use it accordingly.As previous posts said if you want full control get a MTX.I find for what I want it delivers.
 

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Note: These comments are limited based on my experience with the JA5A-EL JATCO 5sp automatic.

I've taken a zen-like approach to the "manual" mode for the ATX. It's all about being one with the JATCO. Driver and trans have to come to some sort of understanding with each other. Be one with the trans....Ommmm.....<meditation>

Seriously,

When are you hitting the limiter?

If you are hitting the limiter while under acceleration (1 to 2 and/or 2 to 3) you have to take into account the shift lag in manual mode. Recall that the trans shifts approx. 500 rpms after the driver input for the 1 to 2 shift. The lag is approx. 250 rpms for the 2-3 shift. Put in your shift input either 250 or 500 rpms prior to the rpm and the trans should shift at or just before the limiter.

When overtaking on the highway, one can either stomp on the accelerator pedal and the trans will shift down a gear automatically or you can manually shift down a gear. I prefer to do the latter. The reason it shifts down a gear for you is because the car is sensing that you want speed NOW (for whatever reason) and it’s accommodating your need for speed. And, the best way to give you what you need (speed), is to drop you down a gear and put you in the higher rpms where you have the hp on supply. So really you shouldn’t be annoyed when the poor trans is giving you what you want.

If you find that you need more oomph you can elect to shift down another gear, but note where you are on the tach and take into account that after you do two consecutive quick downshifts the trans will not allow you to make an input (down or up) for a certain amount of time (approx 2-3 secs). Conceivably if one does not pay attention to the tach and the throttle, one can:

- Do a 5 to 3 shift, accelerate (wheeee!)
- System freezes you out of inputs, because of the 2 shift rule,
- You hit the limiter, because the system will not respond to your 3-4 shift. (D’oh!)

So take into account the JATCO’s behavior when it comes to two consecutive down shifts.

Deceleration is another thing, the trans will ALWAYS be smoother than you when decelerating. The trans in automatic mode will ALWAYS be smoother than you at low speeds (5-10 mph). Just like the Beatles song, Let it be. If you choose not to, I recommend downshifting at around 1300 rpms for a smooth stop.

For all its limitations, the trans isn't all that bad. At the least, it doesn't nanny you. I recall earlier Tiptronics not letting you hit the limiter.
 

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I have to agree with Raynman that you have to understand its limitations to appreciate the manual mode.

I find it really useful in holding a gear after downshifting or getting over the slows starts when rolling a stop (the tranny waits so long to downshift at a stop sign that it's still in second when I begin accelerating again - reeeeaaaallly slow and awkward in the 6i).

Either way, it's still an ATX but at least you do have better control than just gas-gas brake-brake
 

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I agree with Raynman.. practice makes perfect with that thing.. you have to throw all your conceptions abotu what it SHOULD do out the window.. and understand what it DOES do.. then you will understand how to manipulate it.. Its computer controlled.. there is logic in it.. understand that logic, and when it shifts and use that to your advantage..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
When are you hitting the limiter?

If you are hitting the limiter while under acceleration (1 to 2 and/or 2 to 3) you have to take into account the shift lag in manual mode. Recall that the trans shifts approx. 500 rpms after the driver input for the 1 to 2 shift. The lag is approx. 250 rpms for the 2-3 shift. Put in your shift input either 250 or 500 rpms prior to the rpm and the trans should shift at or just before the limiter.
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The only time I have ever hit the limiter is when I almost Died. I was going about 60 and near floored it. I didnt know about the silly downshift rule on this ATX in manual Mode. I went from 6th to 2nd. and when it shifted I was at about 6,000+ RPM's and my foot was still on the gas so needless to say I wasnt expecting it to downshift and I was bouncing off the limiter for a couple seconds. scary as hell I tell ya. almost killed me because I was no longer accellerating and traffic was up my butt.
 

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interesting, I didn't know it will downshift for you in manual mode and high gear... if you floor it will have to test it out myself to find out when it will downshift...
 

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Daily driving, I don't use the M mode at all, but if I feel that I need a little rush I go for the M. When I do use the M, I only use it to accelerate not to slow down, and once I get to speed I will put it back into D until I start up again. I just can't wait until I get the shift kit from CPE and then the fun will begin!
 

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Raynman hit the nail on the head. I also have the 5-speed but the 6-speed should be no different. Truth is, it takes time to learn the transmission and the way it behaves. Once you learn it though, you'll hardly ever hit the limiter and you'll learn how much throttle to apply to avoid an automatic downshift. Now, I can downshift almost at will , and I can't remember the last time I hit the limiter (at least a year). Auto mode is for when I need to use the cell phone :)
 

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Excessive load on the engine, namely by "flooring it" in a high gear at a low speed, is bad for the engine and fuel economy. There is simply no logical reason why one would do that rather than downshifting.

The car says "Hey, this guy is suddenly trying to go and isn't going to because he's left it in 6th. He's really stomping on it, there must be an emergency or other good reason to accelerate now so I better do the smart thing and let this guy accelerate"

You might as well be complaining that the car won't let you start off in 3rd gear -- it won't because it just doesn't make sense to do so.

You floor it because you want to go. Fast. If you don't, then, um, don't floor it. The problem doesn't lie with the logic in the TCM, it lies in the fact that you've driven lots of crappy automatics over the years that basically require that you force the car to accelerate by pressing the pedal all the way to the floor because that's the only way the thing would downshift. If you want to accelerate in 6th gear just press the pedal, don't stab at it and it'll work just fine. 6th gear is a cruising gear, not designed for acceleration. It won't take much pressure on the pedal before the car determines that the engine load is excessive and a downshift would be more prudent and safe.

The whole downshifting on its' own thing sucks, yes. But that's a concession to safety and to one of the biggest problems with Manu-Matics (or whatever you want to call them) -- you can't tell what gear you're in which makes putting yourself in the correct gear to start a little difficult since your current gear isn't readily apparent. They're also not very well designed for manual downshifting on a constant basis as the manual shifts are rough, exacerbated by the fact that very few people could actually properly downshift at the correct RPMs.

Just let the car downshift on its' own in normal driving and downshift only when you want to accelerate.
 

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oh i've learned that when crusing at high speeds in D, say 90 mph, and you tap over to M, it'll automatically downshift to 5. took me 3 times to figure out that was happening, since i tap it usually to slow down for upcoming traffic w/o using brakes, but i would go into M and downshift one, putting me in 4th and a huge rpm spike, "what was going on!? thats massive engine brake for one downshift...damn."

oh and i dont think the tranny will let you do any downshifting that will kill you, if the rpms are too high for that gear, it will not shift, it'll blink the gear number you're on in the gauge cluster. just like if you try to throw the atx into reverse while moving forward, it wont do it, i've accidently did that on a camry b4...haha nothing happend.
 

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oh i've learned that when crusing at high speeds in D, say 90 mph, and you tap over to M, it'll automatically downshift to 5. took me 3 times to figure out that was happening, since i tap it usually to slow down for upcoming traffic w/o using brakes, but i would go into M and downshift one, putting me in 4th and a huge rpm spike, "what was going on!? thats massive engine brake for one downshift...damn." [/b]

If I'm ever in D (which is rare) and move over to M the indicator stays on whatever gear I was in, it never downshifts. Maybe the 6-speeds are different in that regard or you may have an issue. 4th gear seems touchy on the 6-speeds for some reason, a few members have complained of that rpm 'spike' you mentioned when slowing down. I believe some of the problems were addressed with an update so you might want to check with your dealer.
 
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