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Discussion Starter #1
Continuing the discussion from "Man it's all about how good the car looks".

Let's compare a different car for a moment if we could. If you remove luxury items, badge appeal, wheels driven and price from the equation, would you choose an Accord or Altima over a BMW 330i? The 330i has ONLY 225hp. It is slower in the dash to 60 and the 1/4 mile than either of the other two cars. I don't think many people would hesitate to jump on the Beemer. Assuming it was FWD yet still had the same driving dynamics, enthusiast drivers would flock to it. Sally Soccermom on the other hand, wouldn't see the difference and would go for more power or whatever features she held to be important. Joe Streetracer would go for the fastest one with the cheapest mods. We that count ourselves as enthusiasts feel that dynamics and feel are what make a car special; not power. Do we like power? Absolutely. But it's not the first priority. Some of you sound like power drivers. Obviously there is a conflict there. We are people that would rather have a low powered Miata than a high powered Mustang. Why? Because the Miata is more fun to drive for people like us. For people that really love the rush of power, there are better cars.

I hope this explains my point of view. Don't take my jabs personally (you haven't seemed to so far); it's all in good fun. I can appreciate your point of view too. Like I said before, I certainly wouldn't turn down more power if it were available. I just wouldn't like to have more at the expense of driving dynamics. Look, a lot of the people on this board are more interested in the I-4 just because it is better balanced. That may seem crazy to some, because they're giving up 60hp. But it's a different mind set we're talking about here.

Basically, it's fruitless to ask for something you know you can't have. Almost definitely we'll see more powerful 6's in future iterations. But I can almost guarantee there will always be someone out there who will put out a more powerful engine. Mazda has never been about power.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

I have only experienced this in driving games *doh* but I can guess it feels a lot the same IRL:
It's more fun to drive a car with quite low power. Not a Fiesta but... a 6 :D Something where the engine is appropriate for the car. Normal driving should work, but when you push the pedal things should happen.

I can't see this happening in a Mustang Boss or a Viper. Bush the pedal to the metal and the engine will scream like hell, tires will smoke and the car much stands on the same spot as it did before. You can't really feel that you push the car to it's limit, cause the limit is to easly passed. Almost all american sport cars have this enourmous power overflow. Nice in a Lambo for instance, but a Lambo can get the power down to the tarmac, I don't see how a Viper for instace would manage that.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Kenoka, I agree with you fully. Driving a car is an experience, it's supposed to be fun!

When I take the car out in the night, even so just for filling it up, I don't wish to get where I'm going as fast as possible just to do what I went to do, and then rush back again.

I want it to be fun to get there!

A (freely) translated poem by swedish Karin Boye:

There may be goals and purpose with our trip,
but it's the road there that makes our lives worthwile.

Amen.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Oh no Blackbird, don't get me wrong. Driving a muscle car is first rate fun as well. Believe me. I used to drive my friend's 5.0 liter Mustang GT. It could break the back end loose on a moment's notice. But when it catches, look out. It's like riding a bucking bronco - only the motion's sideways instead of up and down. It's a thrill. Maybe that's why they're called "Pony Cars".

It's just that for me personally accelerating in a straight line just isn't as exciting as driving in the twisties.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Sorry you wrong there Blackbird. The Viper has amazing power transfering. If anything those true sport breed car can really scoot.

The Viper may look bulky and heavy but it is quite nimble. You have to remember these machine were made for sport in mind. We are not talking about family vehicle design for some sport in mind.

The original intent of these sport machine are made just that for sport.

On that thought, I would love to own a Viper (American brand c**p) but it is one awesome car. On the other hand, a Mustang just does not cut it as a true sport machine in my opinion. Same goes for the Camaro series. I don't the Vette. I guess I sort of looking at sport car as exotic and they have to have that status for me to really want. :)
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

I don't have to go the fastest, but I don't want to slow down for turns!

As it was said (classic quotes):

You'll be doing 100 in this baby in no time.
City or highway?
City, of course. Anyone can do it on the highway.
--the hidden

If you can't go fast with 90hp, 900hp isn't going to help you.
--bwob

'nuff said.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Heippo,

I agree with your classifications. I actually don't consider the Viper a sports car. I see it as a muscle car, or a GT car at best. Becoming a sports car is a hard fought battle, and only those that excel shall receive the title.

Not that the Viper doesn't excel...From reading (I've never been fortunate enought to drive one) it's a street-legal (barely) race car. That's not a sports car.

I would classify cars such as the NSX and Lotus Elise as true sports cars (Good point here - we don't have it in the US, so somebody needs to correct my numbers, but the Lotus Elise is one of the best sportscars ever, and it only pulls ~120 hp)

I don't consider the Viper a sports car. I may change my mind if I ever get to drive one. But I don't forsee either happening soon.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

OK ok classifications are nice :D I didn't notice that these cars where Muscle cars instead of sport cars... Ok :D

But I can see that others have the same basic feel - it's more fun to drive fast in a slow car then slow in a fast.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

No, you said it. In one of your posts...or was it in your review? It was You anyway, AJ.:D
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Perhaps I was quoting bwob...and it goes:

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Yeah I know that and maybe I should have mentioned that it was a quote. But I don't find it to be a quote rather then a shared opinion...
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

That was me, but I have heard it elsewhere before.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

The obsession with stats is hilarious to me. HP, torque, 0-60, 1/4 mile. IMHO this is like breaking down a girl to her physical attributes. 5'4" 36-24-36, 115 lbs. Sounds like the perfect girl right? Oh now you want to know if she's intelligent? Sense of humor? Don't be silly, just look at those stats! So what if she's a raging bitch.

Back to cars, it seems to me there are several cars that are labeled driver's cars that are also sadly deficient in the power rankings: VW Passat (195 hp); Audi A4 (220 hp); BMW 330i (225 hp). If I remember correctly, these are the cars that Mazda benchmarked to come up with the 6. Not the Camry, not the Accord, and not the Altima. Perhaps now it begins to make sense. The 6 is built on European sensibilities. It is not built to cater to powerheads and dragsters.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

I'd have to agree. There was something holistic about driving the 6. It was a very nice, comfortable, sporty feel. Everything meshed together to achieve the Zoom Zoom ideals. Ok it doesn't have the most room or the most horsepower, but as Car and Driver said there is something about the way all the features come together so well that make it the pick of the lot: referring to Camry, Accord and Altima.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

As further evidence, here is an excerpt from Sport Compact Car's big comparo. This comparo was for all the hot compacts under $20,000. The winner was the Dodge SRT Neon. It dominated the class with its turbocharged 2.4 liter engine, but they did note that its handling could have been improved. I point out that the Neon won the comparo because hey, who doesn't like power? The main point though is how close the MazdaSpeed Protege came to beating the Neon in spite of giving up a lot in the horsepower and torque departments. Read on:
QUOTE
The Mazdaspeed Protegé gives up 73 hp and a 100 lb-ft of torque to the overendowed SRT-4, and yet it was surprisingly close to nudging the Dodge out of the top spot. The fact is, none of this car's test numbers, not even its winning handling numbers, do justice to the Protegé's true capabilities. This is an amazingly well-sorted car with surprisingly few compromises. We've heard more than one automotive engineer jealously question how Mazdaspeed managed to sneak such a low, tight suspension past the corporate ninny brigade. The only possible answer: Mazda's ninnies get it.

The key to appreciating the Mazdaspeed Protegé is to take it as a whole. Don't expect overwhelming power, staggering grip or retina damaging brakes. Instead, this car lets you blend acceleration, handling and braking into one seamless and very fast dance. Hustling the Mazdaspeed Protegé down a twisty road elicits the same slack-jawed amazement once reserved for the Integra Type R. A suspension with this kind of unflappable poise and consistent controllability is very rare. Add nearly perfect steering feel, well-balanced brakes and just enough power and you're almost there.

The Mazdaspeed Protegé's crowning jewel is the Tochigi Fuji Sangyo conical ring torque-sensing limited-slip differential. Despite the long, clumsy title, the diff is a subtle, invisible piece of the puzzle that makes the whole package work. Mazdaspeed's suspension tuning, developed with the help of Racing Beat, is unconventional, pairing relatively soft springs with huge anti-roll bars. The result is surprisingly good ride quality over most surfaces. The ride only feels stiff on offset bumps, which allow the big bars to toss the car around a bit. In the corners, drop throttle or a little left-foot braking allow the nose to drop noticeably and the front end to tuck in. There always seems to be more front grip available than you expect.

Despite a 2.0-liter turbo, the Mazdaspeed Protegé has just enough power. Output was intentionally limited to protect the transmission and to allow the long block to remain the same as the naturally aspirated Protegé's. Sticking to parts already in production for other cars is the only way to offer this much performance for so little money. It's the parts bin curse that makes the intercooler almost uselessly tiny and the seats relatively flat. A bigger intercooler and better seats are easy aftermarket upgrades.[/b]
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

And the final factor in deceiding the winner SCC took the 2 cars on the road (canyon). They said it took 3 miles for the Neon to pull any kind of a gap on the MSP.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

And that was with what many suspect to be a juiced pre-production version of the SRT-4. Given that the one SCC tested dynoed higher at the wheels than Dodge rated it at the crank, its unlikely the production vehicles will achieve those numbers. The MS Protege, on the other hand, had its regular production tuning. So...let's do that canyon run again when the SRT-4 hits dealers and see what happens.
 

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Replying to Topic 'Man, it's all about how good the car FEELS'

Yea, they all do some stuff like that. Mazda droped off a MSP at one Mag. to be tested (I forget which). But they had also shaved the tires. :D
 
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