Mazda 6 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, is it possible to swap a Limited-Slip differential into these cars?

I find that the stock differential holds the car back a lot during spirited driving.

however, apparently the diff is designed into the transmission or something, meaning that this upgrade may not be possible? is this true?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Hey guys, is it possible to swap a Limited-Slip differential into these cars?

I find that the stock differential holds the car back a lot during spirited driving.

however, apparently the diff is designed into the transmission or something, meaning that this upgrade may not be possible? is this true?
Are you talking about a 3rd gen?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
Differential can be changed. You have to split the transmission cases, but that is not a big deal for a transmission expert.

I doubt you can even find one, and it would cost thousands to get one made. Hardly worth it. As for traction issues, that's what the traction control is for, I leave it on when I beat on my car because 1st and 2nd gear have lots of wheelspin. I have yet to have any real trouble in the twisties and I have a few spots that I get more than randy on from time to time.

What exact issue to you think you have?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Differential can be changed. You have to split the transmission cases, but that is not a big deal for a transmission expert.

I doubt you can even find one, and it would cost thousands to get one made. Hardly worth it. As for traction issues, that's what the traction control is for, I leave it on when I beat on my car because 1st and 2nd gear have lots of wheelspin. I have yet to have any real trouble in the twisties and I have a few spots that I get more than randy on from time to time.

What exact issue to you think you have?
I don?t really have any issues with it. I just find the open differential to be a real let down when putting down power while turning, whether it?s around a corner or merging aggressively into a different street in first gear. The inside tire just chatters and grip isn?t as good as it could be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
I have a question that's a little off topic, but I've noticed that my 6 will spin both tires when launching hard. I was under the impression I had an open differential, but the PO had installed ms6 springs and put on larger wheels with wider tires. Wondering if there's an explanation or than lsd


Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

·
Rally Racer
2004 Mazda 6s Wagon ATX
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
I have a question that's a little off topic, but I've noticed that my 6 will spin both tires when launching hard. I was under the impression I had an open differential, but the PO had installed ms6 springs and put on larger wheels with wider tires. Wondering if there's an explanation or than lsd


Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
If both tires are on the same friction surface then they will both have the same coefficient. Meaning, neither one will want to give up and start spinning. When a vehicle turns there is a slight to dramatic weight transfer outward that reduces the downward force being placed on the inner tire and that reduces its traction allowing for spin. Straight line with one tire on a paint stripe or bit of water or even a piece of cardboard. Once a tire starts spinning it moves to a dynamic friction model away from a static friction model and it is harder to stop it from spinning. There is also an added, albeit minimal, effect produced by the planetary gears that lends to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Gotcha. I have matching tires that I rotate, and one was replaced because of an impact bubble. I guess they're still close enough in age that the rubber behaves the same

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
WHile my car tends to prefer spinning the passenger side tire, it has spun the left and at time both. I almost never turn off my traction control so I have no idea just what it will do with that off, but the V6 5spd easily loses traction in 1st and 2nd gears. If you are losing traction in corners then you are simply over driving the car. Best part about the 1st gen is just how absolutely rock solid it is right up to the limit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: babyluv2

·
Banned
Joined
·
703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
WHile my car tends to prefer spinning the passenger side tire, it has spun the left and at time both. I almost never turn off my traction control so I have no idea just what it will do with that off, but the V6 5spd easily loses traction in 1st and 2nd gears. If you are losing traction in corners then you are simply over driving the car. Best part about the 1st gen is just how absolutely rock solid it is right up to the limit.
Not necessarily. I had a 1995 Nissan Maxima that was equipped with a factory VLSD if optioned with the manual transmission, and the LSD totally transformed the car. If you lose traction in corners, there is a number of reasons:

- driving style. not trail braking properly, turning in too sharply, coming in too hot (which negates the chance to properly power through the corner with throttle)

- poor tires

-soft suspension (or lack of mods such as sway bars, insufficient front negative camber, etc)

- lack of LSD :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
LSD in a high powered front wheel drive car would oversteer far too easily.



I stand by my original statement that if you are spinning the inside front wheel when cornering then you are doing something wrong. At least in a 1st gen as we got the best possible suspension. 3rd gen cannot compare to the 1st, completely different type.


LSD is only going to really benefit in a straight line, they are not meant to improve cornering. IF anything, an open diff will allow the car to turn easier and more consistently.



To each their own, but you are both over simplifying it and over estimating the benefits.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
LSD in a high powered front wheel drive car would oversteer far too easily.



I stand by my original statement that if you are spinning the inside front wheel when cornering then you are doing something wrong. At least in a 1st gen as we got the best possible suspension. 3rd gen cannot compare to the 1st, completely different type.


LSD is only going to really benefit in a straight line, they are not meant to improve cornering. IF anything, an open diff will allow the car to turn easier and more consistently.



To each their own, but you are both over simplifying it and over estimating the benefits.
But, have you actually driven a FWD car with an LSD in it before? Because I have, I hopping back into my Mazda with it's open diff, I want to change it to an LSD.

Yes, if you are spinning the inside tire around corners I agree you're doing something wrong. That would be not installing an LSD.. :D FWD cars don't just oversteer unless you REALLY know what you are doing, have the correct alignment for oversteer to initiate, things such as a rear sway bar.. etc.

Off the line, it helps immensely. Once moving, makes no difference unless you have huge power. Around corners, if you are properly using throttle to power out after hitting the apex, makes a huge difference with rotation and overall potential with the way power is put down. It's a night and day difference. You shouldn't just think it's not very helpful until you try driving a FWD car with an LSD.
 

·
Rally Racer
2004 Mazda 6s Wagon ATX
Joined
·
3,585 Posts
A LSD will benefit a FWD car if you drive track yes. Otherwise it just makes up for some city circumstance or driver exuberance. :)



On the track in FWD you generally throw the rear out when entering the corner (scary) and then use the throttle to plant them just before they go away forever (crash/spin) at mid-corner and use the LSD to transfer power away from the slippy outer tire to the more grippy inside tire. This is generally why people with FWD cars lower traction in the rear for track.


I don't drive like that around town anymore and frankly would likely kill myself in a street environment.


In a LSD if I am turning and get to throttle happy it will slip both fronts and I will under-steer causing me to lift throttle to turn. The same thing happens when I spin the inside tire of an open diff., I lift throttle to regain traction. The only time I believe it would help me on the street is if I am crawling out of a driveway and the front tire is in the air. Otherwise I don't throw cars into corners on the street anymore with the 'lets see if I make it?' attitude. [sigh]


my 2 cents
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
703 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
A LSD will benefit a FWD car if you drive track yes. Otherwise it just makes up for some city circumstance or driver exuberance. :)



On the track in FWD you generally throw the rear out when entering the corner (scary) and then use the throttle to plant them just before they go away forever (crash/spin) at mid-corner and use the LSD to transfer power away from the slippy outer tire to the more grippy inside tire. This is generally why people with FWD cars lower traction in the rear for track.


I don't drive like that around town anymore and frankly would likely kill myself in a street environment.


In a LSD if I am turning and get to throttle happy it will slip both fronts and I will under-steer causing me to lift throttle to turn. The same thing happens when I spin the inside tire of an open diff., I lift throttle to regain traction. The only time I believe it would help me on the street is if I am crawling out of a driveway and the front tire is in the air. Otherwise I don't throw cars into corners on the street anymore with the 'lets see if I make it?' attitude. [sigh]


my 2 cents
For me, I found the LSD to be very useful during spirited driving on the street, not where you are throwing the car into corners trying to get your FWD chassis to oversteer, but just enjoying your car and flicking the car into corners at quicker, more spirited than usual attitude. I found that the LSD really helps teach you proper cornering manners (trailbrake right before you turn the wheel, hit apex, power out of apex using throttle) This really helps you make the most of your chassis and is much more difficult to do correctly with an open diff.

Another situation where I found the LSD very useful was going into a corner when you are at a full stop, such as merging onto a street from a stop sign. The car rotated and put the power down excellent, whereas in the Mazda, the tires would skip and chatter a little before gripping. Also, in the rain I noted much less tire-spin even when taking off aggressively. My confidence while going around corners in the rain increased dramatically, and the front axle had this very spirited, smooth rotating feel to it.

To summarize, if you drive normally the open diff is totally sufficient. If you enjoy even somewhat spirited driving, know how to corner your car properly, or plan to add power to your car, driving in snowy/rainy conditions often, It's an excellent investment.

B1LK1, If you have never driven a FWD, (or any-wheel drive car for that matter) with an LSD, you shouldn't be inputting until you actually try for yourself...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
B1LK1, If you have never driven a FWD, (or any-wheel drive car for that matter) with an LSD, you shouldn't be inputting until you actually try for yourself...

No need to be a dick about it, if there is one thing this forum does NOT need is another pompous ass preaching.


I very likely drove cars with a LSD before you were even born.



Finally, you keep quoting and replying to most things I say around here and it is getting old. I have, and I am allowed to have, a differing opinion. I also fail to see ANY benefit to spending $1K+ on a LSD for a street driven car that basically has electronic LSD with traction control. Obviously they are not the same, but the traction control on these cars is pretty un-intrusive unless you purposely overload the front tires. I have been a mechanic for almost 30yrs and I have worked on hundreds of go fast cars, never mind the 40-50 I have owned of various FWD/RWD/AWD configuration. I may have just a touch of knowledge.


Please stop quoting me every time you disagree. A simple post beneath mine is fine, it is very likely I will not agree with anything you say anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
To summarize, if you drive normally the open diff is totally sufficient. If you enjoy even somewhat spirited driving, know how to corner your car properly, or plan to add power to your car, driving in snowy/rainy conditions often, It's an excellent investment.

B1LK1, If you have never driven a FWD, (or any-wheel drive car for that matter) with an LSD, you shouldn't be inputting until you actually try for yourself...
Older thread, but info is relevant.

LSD in FWD makes huge difference to drivability, but not safe for general public, but then again neither is RWD LSD. Better for Plebs that the inside wheel picks up and spins.

I have driven FWD with Viscous coupling (Nissan track day car), home made friction LSD (Honda Civic rally car), and locked welded (Honda Civic speedway car, not recommended for the faint at heart).

The difference are large, and far superior for performance driving. Did you find one in your searches?

No need to be a dick about it, if there is one thing this forum does NOT need is another pompous ass preaching.
You're the one being a dick Buddy, clearly you don't know what you are talking about. You're pretending you know something when you don't, and feel offended that someone dares challenge you, and puts in your place. Hope that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
You're the one being a dick Buddy, clearly you don't know what you are talking about. You're pretending you know something when you don't, and feel offended that someone dares challenge you, and puts in your place. Hope that helps.
I'd be real careful calling an established member names on your first post here. And you might want to note that the OP you're white-knighting for was banned a long time ago...for being a dick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,183 Posts
I'd be real careful calling an established member names on your first post here. And you might want to note that the OP you're white-knighting for was banned a long time ago...for being a dick.
Who knows? The guy might have returned with a different username!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
Wow, I had almost completely forgotten about Get Inline!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top