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Discussion Starter #1
Well looking at the CP-E FMIC kit, I got to thinking about why it is mounted the other way... then I came across this APS 350Z Turbo kit which is done the same way...

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/350z/int...intercooler.htm

What do you think of the idealogy behind mounting it this way and why???
 

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Well looking at the CP-E FMIC kit, I got to thinking about why it is mounted the other way... then I came across this APS 350Z Turbo kit which is done the same way...

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/350z/int...intercooler.htm

What do you think of the idealogy behind mounting it this way and why???
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Not to sound like an ass Wiggum, I really don't intend to if I do... but I read that page and it appears that they mount it that way for better air flow... air from the intake feeds into the bottom and flows to the top into the cylinders. I'm also a turbo noob for default and don't know if I read that wrong. Seems like a good idea in theory.
 

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Sounds about right.... I sent CP-E an e-mail to see if this is similiar...
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Keep me posted on what they say. I also beleive that this style mount has a lower psi drop. Not 100% on that.
 

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I believe what they're saying is that the vertical flow with a horizontally oriented IC (ie. much wider than it is tall) has more paths (across the whole width of the IC) that are all much shorter (flowing along the shortest dimension of the intercooler). More paths with shorter distance means less restriction than fewer paths that are much longer. Sort of like this:

Sideways flow with horizontally oriented IC (top diagram)


As opposed to vertical flow with same orientation (lower diagram)

Each arrow and flow line would represent the inner tubes that the pressurized and heated air flows through inside the IC. The lower flow should experience less pressure drop.

I don't buy their explanation of the air having to make less turns though, but having a larger volume at entry point to allow better dispersion across the different flow paths is possible.
 

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correct skoda, and correct wiggum. the CP-E FMIC is a top-to-bottom IC for exactly the reason that skoda has pointed out. the endtanks exit on opposite sides though so that way the airflow is dispersed across all the intercooler tubes. fluids will take the shortest path possible, so placing the exit on the same side will make the IC less efficient.
 

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Seems to me that the horizontal design will have a higher pressure drop, but will also cool the air more in doing so. CP-E intercooler will be overkill for the stock turbo, so the best design for a stock turbo will be the one with the least amount of pressure drop. I also like the fact there is still 2 gaps for air to reach the radiator vs covering the entire air damn with the long horizontal type.
 

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I believe what they're saying is that the vertical flow with a horizontally oriented IC (ie. much wider than it is tall) has more paths (across the whole width of the IC) that are all much shorter (flowing along the shortest dimension of the intercooler). More paths with shorter distance means less restriction than fewer paths that are much longer. Sort of like this:

Sideways flow with horizontally oriented IC (top diagram)


As opposed to vertical flow with same orientation (lower diagram)

Each arrow and flow line would represent the inner tubes that the pressurized and heated air flows through inside the IC. The lower flow should experience less pressure drop.

I don't buy their explanation of the air having to make less turns though, but having a larger volume at entry point to allow better dispersion across the different flow paths is possible.
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Here's the pros and cons of each type:

Horizontal Orientation:
Pros: Cools the air charge more because the air spends more time in the core releasing its heat
Cons: The longer path causes a pressure drop

Verticle Orientation.
Pros: Minimal pressure drop
Cons: Less effective cooling.

Balancing the pressure drop and the cooling effectiveness is where the R&D come in. A verticle flow IC will usually have less than 1psi drop. The horizontal can be 2psi plus. That means the turbo must make more boost on a horizontal (and more heat) for the same boost to reach the manifold. This is not always a bad thing if the horizontal IC does its job well and cools well.

In my experience, a properly sized horizontal flow IC is the best.
 

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I believe what they're saying is that the vertical flow with a horizontally oriented IC (ie. much wider than it is tall) has more paths (across the whole width of the IC) that are all much shorter (flowing along the shortest dimension of the intercooler). More paths with shorter distance means less restriction than fewer paths that are much longer. Sort of like this:

Sideways flow with horizontally oriented IC (top diagram)


As opposed to vertical flow with same orientation (lower diagram)

Each arrow and flow line would represent the inner tubes that the pressurized and heated air flows through inside the IC. The lower flow should experience less pressure drop.

I don't buy their explanation of the air having to make less turns though, but having a larger volume at entry point to allow better dispersion across the different flow paths is possible.
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All true, except the fact that the pressure drop is influenced by the sudden volume expantion of air. This causes the air speed to drop exponentially in relation to the rate of expansion.

In this set-up, the air will expanding alot more than a traditional ic set-up, thus increasing the potential for pressure drop. Most companies see that and (like CP-E) counter that effect with a shorter distance to travel before being crammed back into a 2.5"-3" pipe. However (this is important), the longer the air is in the ic, the more time it is being cooled by ambient air. Vertical intercoolers allow less cooling time than the horizontal. Depending on the application and design, it could be a better option, but with our heatsoak issues...

I'll take a short-stack horizontal ic any day of the week. I'd like to know how thick of a core we can fit just in the lower (open) section of the grille. If I can fit a 22x8x4.5, I may just have to do it.
 

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even though there is more travel in a side-to-side IC, the efficiency is not that more better than a top-bottom IC. most of the cooling is done in the first 25% of the core. as the charge air temp approaches ambient, the rate of heat transfer decreases exponentially. increasing the IC length of travel will only drop the charge temps maybe another degree or 2, but the pressure drop will be greater than that of a top-bottom. you're better off with a top-bottom. check bellintercoolers.com for more info.
 

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but also dont forget SPACE! top to bottom means less bends in places they dont fit. Generally flow will be the same, but top to bottom generally works if there is less space. The pipes can run just near the bottom of the car, without drastic bends pointing upwards. Least restrictive path possible.
 

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but also dont forget SPACE! top to bottom means less bends in places they dont fit. Generally flow will be the same, but top to bottom generally works if there is less space. The pipes can run just near the bottom of the car, without drastic bends pointing upwards. Least restrictive path possible.
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As a designer of electical systems, plumbing systems, and HVAC systems I can tell you that in a tubular duct, bends higher than 105* hardly play a factor in restriction (at least not enough to altar your descition). 366 cfm will easily push right through it. I would prefer not to have the pipes near the bottom of the car if I plan on lowering it at some point. One bump and there goes your ic.

The cp-e ic WILL require you to put a hole somewhere. There is absolutely no other way to get to the front. I'm not sure if it will be the core-support or the air diffuser on the bottom or both. Considering it's CP-e, it'll probably be cheaper to buy an ic and pipe it yourself anyway. Then you can have a horizontal if you prefer (as I plan).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
All josh told me is that its a top to bottom IC... and that not cutting is required... i wouldn't there would need to be either if its top fed...
 

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There might not be any cutting of the bumper (as was origionally implied), but the fact remains the same; there is no passage big enough to get two or even one pipe through or around the core support from the engine bay that isn't occupied by something. Unless they tell us to make a hole for it or remove the air diffuser or to relocate some factory parts. They took out one existing passage with the CAI. I've had to replace my core support, bumper, hood, passenger fender one headlight, and a handfull of other crap, and I have seen pretty much the whole front end taken apart. Trust me, it won't be that simple.
 

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the one im getting is horizontal, like they said it cools better and also it looks better also
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The horizontal does tend to looks better, but it will also cause more lag and less perfomance...
 

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the one im getting is horizontal, like they said it cools better and also it looks better also
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yes, but there is more pressure drop. but your boost controller will take care of that. :yesnod:

btw, you should reverse the end tanks so for instance, the left side is down and the right side is up. air takes the path of least resistance, so if you have the tanks both down, then the air wont travel thru the top of the core.
 
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