[king_lam925]

After a few days, I finally figured out what caused the damage on the side wall of my flat tire. There's nothing to do with wheel offset or tire size. Because I've never experienced any rubbing since the steelies and winters tires were installed. So I can eliminate this possibility.

However, when I recalled the moment that the tire was flatten and reviewed the damage on the sidewall, I got a very important clue because I was riding on a speed bump which made the front shocks to compress. So the front wheels went up and being in contact with the ice built up around the fender due to condensation in extreme cold weather. The molecular structure of ice makes it hard enough to behave like a matellic knife. This results in a pinch-cut effect and thus cause surface damage on the sidewall.

It looks like that's the killer. I knew there was ice building up around the fender but I didn't pay much attention to that because I never thought it's gonna be a problem when the wheels displace up and down.

If you live in an area with a cold winter and have a lowed car but w/o the fender rolled. Please be sure to clean up the ice around the fender before you take off

Just a friendly reminder.

 

[silver six]

Looks like you are going to have to stop every mile or so to remove the ice build-up in the wheel well. That sucks! Or, you can roll the fenders. I don't have that problem down here in Ga.LOL

 

[king_lam925]

Looks like you are going to have to stop every mile or so to remove the ice build-up in the wheel well. That sucks! Or, you can roll the fenders. I don't have that problem down here in Ga.LOL[/b]

^^^You know what kind of ice build up I'm talking about? Don't try to be smart. It's not like those ice and snow that the fender collects after a distance of driving.

Look at those sharp ice tip on the bottom.

See the ice tip in the red circle?

I have seen ice tips that's even bigger than that.

 

[Awong124]

You can't roll the front anyway.

 

[king_lam925]

You can't roll the front anyway.[/b]

What do you mean?

 

[Awong124]

You can't roll the front fenders, only the rears. The fronts are already creased up from the factory.

 

[king_lam925]

The pinch-cut effect not only happens in the front but also in the back as ice tip can build up anywhere parallel to the x-y plane.

 

[Awong124]

Mine are already rolled, so I'm not worried anyway. And my car is garage kept.

 

[t_mo_t]

Hmm i thought only me who has snow build under my wheel well.... well when i reached my driveway, i always kick all the snows from the wheel well.... yeah i dont think front wheel can be rolled?

 

[CLaman]

I think the important question is where was the damage in the sidewall? On the inside of the wheel, or the outside?

Outside of the wheel (visible to pedestrians)? My guess the fender would have given out and warped before the wheel would have been cut.

Inside of the wheel (strut assembly)? Keep reading...

Yes, ice can become very sharp to the point it is able to sheer away rock you are correct.

However, the icicles you pointed out likely wouldn't have been strong enough to do that a tire as they can be broken with a finger in a sheer force. However, they may have been an example.

In a compresson force like you had mention it would have taken a lot more significant ice to do that damage, as something of that size simply would have snapped, and broken off. Also, the salt spray from your tires on the salted road, may not have eliminated the ice from under your car (likely added ice), but certainly would have kept the ice blunt.

What you're describing is a combination sheer compression effect., as you stated you were moving at the time.

Because the sidewalls of tires have a decent amount of "give" with the amount of reinforcement they have, the pinch and cut doesn't seem to be the issue IMHO, as the likely result would have resulted in a scuffed sidewall, but certainly not a cut one.

I'm basing this on what you are describing to us as vertical cut in the sidewall of the tire. Give us a picture of your sidewall, and perhaps we can diagnose it.

At this point i think we should be looking for a different cause. Do you have anything METAL loose hanging, or sharp (I forgot to check on sat when we switched out the tire)? Is there any band seperation in the tire? Does it appear to be distorted along any of the band axis?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think we need to look at different possibilities...this one seems unlikely....post up a pic...lets see.

 

[king_lam925]

In a compresson force like you had mention it would have taken a lot more significant ice to do that damage, as something of that size simply would have snapped, and broken off.[/b]

Of cuz they would break but they had already done damage. It's not like just a few ice tips sticking out but the entire fender is frozen in ice which could provide some kind of support to the tips.

Also, the salt spray from your tires on the salted road, may not have eliminated the ice from under your car (likely added ice), but certainly would have kept the ice blunt.[/b]

The thing is I parked the car overnight, I was taking the car out for a drive cuz I needed to go out to get food.

Because the sidewalls of tires have a decent amount of "give" with the amount of reinforcement they have, the pinch and cut doesn't seem to be the issue IMHO, as the likely result would have resulted in a scuffed sidewall, but certainly not a cut one.[/b]

Well, I have to say that the winter tires that I have been running for a whole year are pieces of crap. Seriously, I have never heard of that brand before. I just bought it off from a guy last year and the tread wear is still good today.

I'm basing this on what you are describing to us as vertical cut in the sidewall of the tire. Give us a picture of your sidewall, and perhaps we can diagnose it.[/b]

Nope. It's not vertical. Can you imagine the motion? Maybe I should animate it.

Do you have anything METAL loose hanging, or sharp (I forgot to check on sat when we switched out the tire)? Is there any band seperation in the tire? Does it appear to be distorted along any of the band axis?[/b]

No I don't think so but will get a picture to confirm. I would have got a flatten tire early before the winter if that's true because I put in a lot of mileage travelling between Hamilton and Toronto.

Outside of the wheel (visible to pedestrians)? My guess the fender would have given out and warped before the wheel would have been cut.[/b]

And yes, the damage is outside of the wheel (visible to pedestrians). That's why I'm guess the ice tip was doing the job.

When I was finding the leaky area, I couldn't believe it's on the side wall too cuz it's so weird. I never curbed the tire before.
And the tires have been good for the whole year, however I didn't drive the car in the hottest months in the summer cuz I was on vacation in Asia.
But then when I tried to think about every condition that would work together which led to that kind of damage, that's what I have come up with. I can't say it's absolutely right but it looks likely to me.

 

[Burnsey]

Uhhh..yeah..what Chris said..

 

[king_lam925]

Uhhh..yeah..what Chris said..[/b]

Hey what do you think? What's your guess?

 

[DennisW]

^^^You know what kind of ice build up I'm talking about? Don't try to be smart. It's not like those ice and snow that the fender collects after a distance of driving.

Look at those sharp ice tip on the bottom.

See the ice tip in the red circle?

I have seen ice tips that's even bigger than that.[/b]

that ice did NOT cut your tire.

 

[CLaman]

Ok...ok....
Didn't mean to start an argument you two (Steve and Derek)....

I work in a lab, I've had to study waaaay to much physics to get to this point...I simply gave a well thought out answer to your theory. Nothing more..nothing less.

Thats all these are..your's is a theory, mine is a theory.

With that said...

The cut is on the outside of the tire...as staded above.

You're indicating that its a relatively clean cut, not necessarily vertical, but on the outside of the tire.

My second and final theory.

Someone slashed your tire with a knife, or similiar sharp object. They didn't penetrate the entire sidewall at the time, but when you went over the speed bump your tire acted like a squeezed balloon.

The pressure of the bottom of the tire is a low pressure zone...while the rest of the tire becomes a high pressure zone. The pressure tires to equilibrate itself by pushing on the walls of the tire in an exponential force away from the low pressure source..maximized at the opposite end of the tire (the maxima).

To which end...becuase the tire was trying to equilibrate the additional pressure it was now enoucntering, it would have put additional strain on any potentailly weak points in the tire. The weak point beingthe abrasion in the tire caused by an individual/object X.

The weak point if located in the upper 2/3 of the Higher Pressure zone would have been suspetible to failure, and did.

The air left the tire at a fast rate which is why you heard the "pop" like a balloon, resulting in an instant deflation, and you guessed it...a pressure equillibrium in the tire.

[attachment=19098:theory.bmp]

Let's say you went over multiple spped bumps before this occured. If the abrasion was located in the bottom 1/3 of the tire nearest the speed bump (the low pressure zone) the forces may not have been significant enough to cause premature failure. you could have gone potentially days or weeks with this abrasion, but it wasn't until conditions merited that the pressure was large enough to overcome the resilient forces of the rubber's polymeteric characteristics.

Simply hitting the speed bump a little harder than usual would have been enough tolead it into catastrophic failure.

Again...just a theory.

 

[Balhar]

Its also possible you curbed the tire at some point and created a weak spot...its also possible you ran over a nail or something that was standing upright and fuxord you..

when i got a flat on the highway it was a vertical cut on the outside sidewall... shit happens but i dont think it was the ice either (not saying its not possible) but i dont think it would have been

 

[Burnsey]

Hey what do you think? What's your guess?[/b]

Well - I don't think you'll ever know with absolute certanty. If you get a chance to post pics of the actual puncture, that will go a long way to narrowing things down.

 

[king_lam925]

Chris, I understand that. But long story in short, you're thinking it's done by human factor right?

I know my car is so loud, it catches too much attention all the time. Don't know if it makes someone annoyed but hopefully not.

Its also possible you curbed the tire at some point and created a weak spot...its also possible you ran over a nail or something that was standing upright and fuxord you..

when i got a flat on the highway it was a vertical cut on the outside sidewall... shit happens but i dont think it was the ice either (not saying its not possible) but i dont think it would have been[/b]

I said I have never curbed any rims and tires before in my 3 years of driving. Nail is not long enough to reach the damaged area. Please read!

that ice did NOT cut your tire.[/b]

I'm not saying it's THAT ice. The pictures are just the example so that you guys know what kind of ice I'm talking about. It's possible to happen with those ice all over the fender.

 

[zoomzoomfan]

Chris, I understand that. But long story in short, you're thinking it's done by human factor right?

I know my car is so loud, it catches too much attention all the time. Don't know if it makes someone annoyed but hopefully not.[/b]

LOL, its either the car that too loud or its the driver

Seriously, why do you even bother keeping you car with you on campus? Just park it at home with your parents like 99% of students do. I never brought my car to Mac back when I was a student there... I either walked or used HSR, or sometimes I'd use my mountain bike.

 

[sshe11]

NERDS !!!