Mazda 6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got a 3" exhaust installed and had them remove the second cat. Not that there would be, but no CEL from this install. I'll try to get pics for you guys if you want to see it. Also I am hitting the dyno today to see what gains I received from exhaust. I am also going to have them look into making a downpipe and see if I can get one cheaper than CP-E. I will post my dyno results. Also I removed the resonator in the stock intake, I can't imagine that making a huge difference, but those are the mods, and like I said I'll post dyno results when I get them this evening...Also the dyno is a Mustang dyno and it was just recently calibrated so it should be pretty accurate...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I got a 3" exhaust installed and had them remove the second cat. Not that there would be, but no CEL from this install. I'll try to get pics for you guys if you want to see it. Also I am hitting the dyno today to see what gains I received from exhaust. I am also going to have them look into making a downpipe and see if I can get one cheaper than CP-E. I will post my dyno results. Also I removed the resonator in the stock intake, I can't imagine that making a huge difference, but those are the mods, and like I said I'll post dyno results when I get them this evening...Also the dyno is a Mustang dyno and it was just recently calibrated so it should be pretty accurate...
[/b]
Any baseline b4 mods to compare?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
This has kind of been discussed before, but I am sure you will be able to get a downpipe made for much cheaper than CP-E's price. The only thing is that you don't get reassurance that it is a quality piece and that it has been tested for many miles. When you get a piece just made up on the spot for you, you are basically the tester. Price will be lower because there is really no R+D costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well I agree, except that the guy making the pipe is badass and the guy doing the tuning not only is badass, but also has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and actually understands thermal dynamics and all that b.s. as well as designing a ton of custom turbo setups, so I have pretty good faith in what they produce...and yes I know what you mean too, but even well tested products aren't always perfect, I would rather have something I can take back to someone if its not working right...but I will be sure to keep you guys posted though as to what it dynos...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Okay I got the results and I'm sure most of you won't be surprised and maybe some of you will. I did a lot of testing to see what things could actually be done to make more power. This is what I observed. We started with a regular pull with the only variable being the exhaust and resantor removed from the intake and the hp climed to roughly 247 w/ correction and 277 tq with correction. This was right about where I thought the car was going to be. Now here's where things got interesting. We took the shroud off the intercooler and sprayed it with nitrous and then did the run. The car immediately got so hot it actually made less power, I think also due to the fact that we didn't wait long enough for the engine to cool. Then we took took the filter out of the air box and sprayed nitrous on the intercooler and while the run was made and it made even LESS power. So to try and establish the root of the problem, we hooked up the boost guage on the mustang dyno and measured the boost while doing a full run sparying nitrous on the intercooler. We watched the boost increase to 13 psi and then before the normal run off at around 5800 rpm the car quickly reduced to boost all the way down to 7 psi out to redline. This shows that putting a front mount, full exhaust and intake will do absolutely nothing for this car until you get tuning to match your upgrades period. Some of you can argue with me if you want to, but I believe this to be evidence that the car WILL NOT make more power with any upgrades until you modify the tuning of the computer...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
721 Posts
umm... i don't think that qualifies under the scientific method of experimentation. You didn't check the boost on the first run? It sounds like your concluding that cooler intake charges produce less boost? or a FMIC or intake will net less power? i'd go back and re-evaluate your testing procedures. give the same cool down period between each of the three tests. I'd do a warm up run and discard that from the mix to setup the second run as your baseline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,396 Posts
Okay I got the results and I'm sure most of you won't be surprised and maybe some of you will. I did a lot of testing to see what things could actually be done to make more power. This is what I observed. We started with a regular pull with the only variable being the exhaust and resantor removed from the intake and the hp climed to roughly 247 w/ correction and 277 tq with correction. This was right about where I thought the car was going to be. Now here's where things got interesting. We took the shroud off the intercooler and sprayed it with nitrous and then did the run. The car immediately got so hot it actually made less power, I think also due to the fact that we didn't wait long enough for the engine to cool. Then we took took the filter out of the air box and sprayed nitrous on the intercooler and while the run was made and it made even LESS power. So to try and establish the root of the problem, we hooked up the boost guage on the mustang dyno and measured the boost while doing a full run sparying nitrous on the intercooler. We watched the boost increase to 13 psi and then before the normal run off at around 5800 rpm the car quickly reduced to boost all the way down to 7 psi out to redline. This shows that putting a front mount, full exhaust and intake will do absolutely nothing for this car until you get tuning to match your upgrades period. Some of you can argue with me if you want to, but I believe this to be evidence that the car WILL NOT make more power with any upgrades until you modify the tuning of the computer...
[/b]

It would probably make even more power with tuning, but to say that the car wont make any more power from mods based on your limited time in the dyno is completley rediculous. Your example proves nothing other than removing the intercooler shroud is a bad idea. This car has shown itself to be very unpredictable on the dyno. There are plenty of real world examples that show that this car does make more power with mods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,097 Posts
I would actually say the motor probably saw knock and pulled timing/throttle based on how much knock it saw. Even though you were spraying the IC nitrous was getting into the intake. Althought in small amounts it may have been enough to increase the AFR to an unsafe level. Just a different look at your eval.
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The fuel ratio was actually consistent with the amount of boost and if anything the ratio was still a little fat everytime no matter what boost pressure the turbo read. And to refute the above comment about NOT measuring the boost the first pass, you are incorrect sir, the boost was 15 psi and made the same numbers as the first pass with no other "variables". I can't believe I actually wasted my time informing everyone of these findings, I knew this would be everyone's reaction. So I say take it however you want. I think my findings were pretty appearant. The stock computer will and has limited the power output of this car, not to mention who else has even tried any of the stuff I did? Has anyone else seen different results? People keep stating they have just spent so much more time with this car, point me to the data that would give a different explanation...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
Thanks for posting the info. I wonder if it has to do with how adaptive the Mazda ECU is. I wonder if anything would have been different if you reset the ECU between each run.

-Kyran
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I'm sure nobody will care if you're out. You're being an ass. You put your thoughts out there and people responded. That's why it's called a FORUM. If you don't want people to disagree with you, start your own site where only you can post your thoughts and you can always be right. Some of us were interested in what you were saying but your reaction makes me think you aren't open to the idea that others might have a little more experience or time invested in this particular car. If everyone had your attitude, sites like this wouldn't be as helpful as they are. Adios.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
I got a 3" exhaust installed and had them remove the second cat. Not that there would be, but no CEL from this install. I'll try to get pics for you guys if you want to see it. Also I am hitting the dyno today to see what gains I received from exhaust. I am also going to have them look into making a downpipe and see if I can get one cheaper than CP-E. I will post my dyno results. Also I removed the resonator in the stock intake, I can't imagine that making a huge difference, but those are the mods, and like I said I'll post dyno results when I get them this evening...Also the dyno is a Mustang dyno and it was just recently calibrated so it should be pretty accurate...
[/b]
Do you have the powerloss reflash?

What was the ambient temperature during your dyno pulls?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,138 Posts
+1

Besides, he only has 28 posts - what could he know?
[/b]
Some of the most knowledgable information on this board goes overlooked because people don't recognize a name or look down upon the post count...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
Some of the most knowledgable information on this board goes overlooked because people don't recognize a name or look down upon the post count...
[/b]

right - I guess my sarcastic comment wasn't enough without a precious ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
My point is this....I rely on a lot of the feedback to what is initially posted because I'm trying to learn. When someone has a reaction like Platinum, it closes down a great opportunity for people to share their information. So, instead of a great Q&A, this is what it becomes. Really useful. :huh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,022 Posts
Your findings are inline with what a standard heat soak would cause.

Reguardless, you state your cause and effect findings, yet leave out a ton of data.

You need to at least record the IAT, ECT, EGT, BAT, 02, and timing to get an idea of what's going on internally.

For all we know you sprayed the intercooler, and waited 10 minutes to do the next run. Most of the heat would be coming from where the engine and IC meet, which I doubt you sprayed there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I don't care that people disagree with me, what pisses me off is that people respond to something without even putting any time and their own data. Who the hell are you to even argue if you can't put down the data to back it up. I went and got my own data to help others that are considering trying certain things. Also no I did not reset the ECU, honestly I didn't think about it and you could be correct in saying that may have changed or skewed the results a little. I just wanted to state that without a doubt the ECU is the most notable crutch holding this car back from MAJOR potential. I didn't say everyone was going to agree with my conclusions, but from the data that I was able to collect in the 3 hours I spent on the dyno, those were my conclusions. I don't believe they were misguided or inconsistent. The ultimate result was the ECU holding us back...I said it before and I'll say it again...doesn't anyone find it strange that no dyno numbers have been put out by CP-E boasting ALL of their bolt ons together? I think its possible they know the ECU is holding them back and are considering that until they can release some type of tuning their 4 power bolt ons result in no real gains. To answer someones question above the ambient temp was 86 degrees. I don't remember what the humidity was, but I'm going by the shop again tomorrow to pick up my print out because I forgot it when I was heading out...the next step for me is get a manual boost controller to see if its possible to hold the boost to 15 psi all the way to 6500 rpm, which others have stated is some type of fuel cut and see if this results in better power gains without having to modify the ECU. I'm trying to do some guess work so some of you don't have to, I have direct access to a dyno and its not really that costly. I spent roughly 3 hours on the dyno and they only charged me 80 dollars as well as the nitrous they allowed me to test with, most of you don't even have access to an AWD dyno, so I am sure this data would be beneficial for you, I will get back with those that actually do care about my findings...thanks for the positive and constructive comments, I am by no means a car, turbo or automotive expert, I have just owned a ton of cars and have seen a lot of people talk trash without backing anything up with real consistent data like I have provided...besides this is my first mazda, wtf would I have an account on here otherwise? so yeah, my post count is low who cares...

Your findings are inline with what a standard heat soak would cause.

Reguardless, you state your cause and effect findings, yet leave out a ton of data.

You need to at least record the IAT, ECT, EGT, BAT, 02, and timing to get an idea of what's going on internally.

For all we know you sprayed the intercooler, and waited 10 minutes to do the next run. Most of the heat would be coming from where the engine and IC meet, which I doubt you sprayed there.
[/b]
Well if it wasn't stated above, we did spray nitrous the ENTIRE run. We did not however the first time runnig nitrous run it the entire run to see what if any difference it would make just getting rid of the initial heat soak. A large fan was being blown on the intercooler the entire time the car was sitting and waiting as well as very cool water misted over the intercooler along with the nitrous being sprayed onto the intercooler. We also ran the car without nitrous. I do realize that someone above thinks nitrous may have entered the intake, that was a consideration, but with the huge fan that was also blowing on the intercooler at the same time the nitrous was being sprayed its doubtable any entered the intake causing any of the knock sensors to retard the timing. Does anyone know if you can use the AE on our cars to determine timing, a/f, egt? The car did have the wideband 02 hooked up and the readings were consistent each and every run...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Do you have the powerloss reflash?

What was the ambient temperature during your dyno pulls?
[/b]
I do have the latest flash from Mazda.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top