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Has Mazda come of Age?
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Wow.. that was unexpected. So the CX-7 is a better buy, and cheaper 
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641 Posts
Can't rely on HP ratings to compare brands. I think Mazda is one of the most underestimated brands right now. Doubtful they'll ever reach Honda or Toyota status, but gaining popularity for what I feel is an enthusiast-oriented brand is never a bad thing.
Every auto rag out there had a comparo between the CX-7 and the RDX. They're damn near identical cars. Similar styling, similar sizes, both unusual in that they're CUVs powered by turbo-4s.
The CX-7 won most of them, where it lost is in the categories that you would expect Mazda to lose to Acura -- refinement.
Besides, before this Acura/Mazda comparo there was the popular TSX vs Mazda6 comparo that many rags had.
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531 Posts
A few years ago, maybe, but with the coming of the msp 6 and 3 I have to disagree. Except for the s2000, Honda has nothing to compare. The Civic SI is a joke and their Accords are more expensive and slower than the msp 6. Nissan has the 350z which is better (handling wise) but it aint cheap and the Honda S2k is still pricey. The Maxima is a nice car but for the price I'd rather have the faster, better handling ms6. Altima 3.5? I'd rather drive a Mazda 6s mtx. The Altima SER is nice, but again, the msp6 is the better value imo.
The ms6 is on par with Subaru's WRX (The STI as well as the EVO s in a different class and price range so that's not a good comparison). And the msp 3 is the king of it's class performance wise. The Miata and RX-8 are niche cars that have a loyal following. What Mazda lacks with the mazdaspeeds is an aftermarket.
That's a beautiful comparison Bel, but that's the thing..you are comparing V6 engines to a turbo'd I4...When you should be stacking Mazda's V6 for V6...Did you miss that fact? or are you trying to avoid the cold hard truth?
Mazda is using an engine that came from a Ford Fucking Contour to validate it's V6 line....
Where Honda is Developing their Vtech Engines...Maxima IMO is one of the best Raw Powered Natural Aspirated V6's you could ever get!!
Yes I give Mazda Credit..they did a good job with what the MS6 gives you, and Mazdaspeed line is king (for now)...why didn't they develop their time into Better naturally Aspirated engines,....
There is no reason why the 2.3 and the 3.0 are this Retarded
Mazda is using an engine that came from a Ford Fucking Contour to validate it's V6 line....
Where Honda is Developing their Vtech Engines...Maxima IMO is one of the best Raw Powered Natural Aspirated V6's you could ever get!!
Yes I give Mazda Credit..they did a good job with what the MS6 gives you, and Mazdaspeed line is king (for now)...why didn't they develop their time into Better naturally Aspirated engines,....
There is no reason why the 2.3 and the 3.0 are this Retarded
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I just do not get the fact that so many people go gaga over Honda/Acura. Both have a huge aftermarket while at the same time their production vehicles are quite tame. They sell none of their hottest (performance) models here but, Honda enthusiast still swear by them. Meanwhile Mazda, Subaru, Nissan and even the domestics sell cars with much better performance numbers out of the box and the aftermarket is just not there like it is for Honda. I guess you could say that the Honda aftermarket needs to be bigger since the cars are slower to begin with. I like where Mazda has positioned themselves and yes, I believe Mazda compares to anybody out there and ahead of most. That's why I bought one.
Pffft. The difference between Honda, Nissan, and Subaru V6s in similar applications and the Duratec30 is a whole 12% output difference. Woooooo. That's so "retarded"
I simply cannot buy a car that's faster than 99.9% of those on the road when I could buy one that's faster than 99.99% of those on the road. Considering how much newer those engine designs are than the Duratec30 I think that actually speaks pretty well for the Duratec30. And the VQ35 only generates 5hp more than the Subaru or Honda but requires an extra 0.5L to do it and blows up in stock form when pushed over ~350hp -- that must be some of that "great engineering" at work.Oh, and all those cars cost about $1,000 to $3,000 more MSRP-to-MSRP (even more when comparison transaction prices). Hmm... $2,000 for 20hp... Sounds like a steal.
Besides, the issue has already been resolved and the Mazda6 will surpass all the competition in specific power output next year with the Duratec35. And, another besides, who really cares if Mazda chooses to beat the competition with Turbo-4s rather than V6s or even a Rotary if they could make the thing work right? Beating is beating. If they choose to focus on alternatives to displacement like weight-loss or forced induction that's their perogative. Next are you gonna bitch at Lotus for making an i4 car that's faster than a V8?
Mazda's MZR is one of the best i4s on the market. Period. It provides better performance with lower emissions than other i4s on the market. What others do with 2.4 and 2.5, Mazda does with 2.3.
And the reason why they haven't touched the V6 is simply because they don't touch the V6. That's for Ford to engineer, not Mazda. Mazda sucks at 6-cylinders. Always have. They do the 4-cylinders, Ford does the 6-cylinders. If you think the Duratec30 is bad, you should have seen what they got when they engineered their own (the KL engine they phased out with the Duratec30 got only 160hp out of a 2.5L; that's less than their new 4-cylinder 2.3L MZR got when it was released only a year later) -- they turned to Ford for V6s for a reason. Now that Ford has the Duratec35, Mazda will use it.
Is this not just a comparo of the "new age" looking SUV's??? I get the feeling that since both of these autos look similiar... ie...not boxy minvans or mega size Ford Expeditiions...it is just a futuristic look at the new type style of auto on the market...your reading into the text too much. The car shape and not brand is the body of the message here...which is the REAL Mazda??? A car built in flat rocks MI? Or say a Japan import such as the RX-8???
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75 Posts
Not that my opinion is the ultimate answer in this matter, but I have owned both engines. I now own an 04 6S and before that I had an 03 Maxima GLE with 255 hp. The VQ engine is by far superior to the Duratec. Like someone said before there is more to an engine than horsepower. However, if horsepower were the the only thing to an engine or car than Mazda would be inferior most of the time. The 06 3.0 liter in the 6 has what 212 hp at 6000 rpm and 197 lbs of torque at 500 rpm? THe new 07 Alti with the VQ has 270 hp and I have not seen any torque figures yet. The 06 Max has 255 hp at 6k rpm and 252 lbs at 4400 rpm. A significant difference even for a .5 liter bigger engine. In my opinion the Mazda feels like any American car with a v6. They are rough, loud and very under powered compared to the Jap and German vehicles. My 6 feels very unrefined and just like there is always engine missfiring or hesitation, rough shifts, and it sound horrible. The VQ is smooth as butter and sounds so sweet. If you want the see the VQ at its best just look at the G35 the 2006 has 280 hp and the 07 will have over 300 hp. I am waiting for Nov 1st (release date) so I can possibly get an 07 G35. I cannot wait to get out of my 6. It is an okay car for the money, but there is no resale value so even though I got a good deal at purchase I am now getting screwed even selling my car outright. I just cannot get the 4 cyl Pontiac Sunfire out of my head when I drive the 6 if that tells you my opinion on the Duratec. The 6 does handle well however. As far as the VQ vs the Duratec goes the VQ easily dominates the Duratec in every possible way except that it be used with premium gas. The new Duratec 3.5 is probably a couple years behind the jap engines and will only be about 240 -250 hp. The VQ pimp slaps the Duratec and most other V6's on the market. :yesnod:Pffft. The difference between Honda, Nissan, and Subaru V6s in similar applications and the Duratec30 is a whole 12% output difference. Woooooo. That's so "retarded"
Oh, and all those cars cost about $1,000 to $3,000 more MSRP-to-MSRP (even more when comparison transaction prices). Hmm... $2,000 for 20hp... Sounds like a steal.
Besides, the issue has already been resolved and the Mazda6 will surpass all the competition in specific power output next year with the Duratec35. And, another besides, who really cares if Mazda chooses to beat the competition with Turbo-4s rather than V6s or even a Rotary if they could make the thing work right? Beating is beating. If they choose to focus on alternatives to displacement like weight-loss or forced induction that's their perogative. Next are you gonna bitch at Lotus for making an i4 car that's faster than a V8?
Mazda's MZR is one of the best i4s on the market. Period. It provides better performance with lower emissions than other i4s on the market. What others do with 2.4 and 2.5, Mazda does with 2.3.
And the reason why they haven't touched the V6 is simply because they don't touch the V6. That's for Ford to engineer, not Mazda. Mazda sucks at 6-cylinders. Always have. They do the 4-cylinders, Ford does the 6-cylinders. If you think the Duratec30 is bad, you should have seen what they got when they engineered their own (the KL engine they phased out with the Duratec30 got only 160hp out of a 2.5L; that's less than their new 4-cylinder 2.3L MZR got when it was released only a year later) -- they turned to Ford for V6s for a reason. Now that Ford has the Duratec35, Mazda will use it.
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The new Duratec35 is beyond even what the next-generation of VQ engine will be. It's been designed with every conceivable upgrade in mind right from the start. It's designed for higher-compression applications than other motors on the market and specifically designed for future addition of direct-injection and forced induction, and does it while being on the capable of meeting the most stringent of foreseeable emissions requirements. The addition of direct-injection alone (which Ford is getting experience in via Mazda right now) will make it 300+hp engine at no cost to Ford whatsoever. It may end up being one of the strongest stock motors since the venerable 2JZ-GTE, which is a LOT more than can be said about the VQ35. And, perhaps most importantly, it can produce it for cheaper than the competition can produce theirs.
It's got all the features that the competition is designing into their future motors now. It's not power that matters as much anymore, 300hp in a FWD sedan is plenty, particularly when the market for large motors in smaller cars is having the bottom fall out of it. The future isn't besting in power. It's delivering that power efficiently. What matters now is V6 motors that are highly configurable for particular applications, are good at both medium- and high-power applications and, more importantly, use modern technology to deliver that power at minimal fuel consumption and emissions.
And application-to-application, it's specific output is equal or greater than that of the current VQ35. You can't look at the VQ in the Z and say that the VQ35 is a 300hp motor while looking at the Duratec35 in a minivan and claiming that it is only a 245hp motor. In the Murano, the VQ35 only outputs 245hp, the Edge will have 265hp -- a 20hp advantage for the Duratec35. In the MKZ, a car best compared to the Maxima, the Duratec35 will have 265hp, even with the Maxima (which is why the Maxima got a bump this year). You can be sure that when/if Ford ever makes a car like the Z to use the Duratec35 in, it too will have equal or greater power than the VQ.
The VQ bumped the Duratec from the throne quite a few years ago. Many experts believe that the Duratec might be taking it back this year.
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1,106 Posts
Hate to burst your HP v HP bubbles, but incase you havnt noticed gas prices have shot through the roof... Most people are looking for something that gets good gas milage, not something that will break a track record. And that is what the smart car companies will go with. AKA mazda creating a line up of sporty but economical cars, and having 1 or 2 true sports cars incase you wana spend the big bucks. And this gas price thing is only going to get worse from what I have seen on tv.
I think mazda has done a pretty good job bringing out new models and stuff, however the car company to watch right now seems to be hyndai... HEHE
I think mazda has done a pretty good job bringing out new models and stuff, however the car company to watch right now seems to be hyndai... HEHE
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276 Posts
I wish mazda wouldn't increase the size of the v6 on the 6. I've always felt that the weight distribution on the 6S was too front heavy on the 3.0. Can't imagine how it's going to be with a 3.5 in there.
Now that I drive an rx8 the 50/50 weight makes a world of difference between the 2 cars.
I think mazda shouldn't buy into 'the bigger the better' theory. My 1.3L rotary can hold it's own against the 3.5L 350z 's and the subi's out there.
And to those who keep ripping on the v6 duratec, remember that it was developed by porsche then sold to ford.
That same duratec 3.0 V6 is in the Noble M15 supercar. 0-60 in the low 3's; 0-100 in the mid 7's. Not bad for a ford motor eh?
Now that I drive an rx8 the 50/50 weight makes a world of difference between the 2 cars.
I think mazda shouldn't buy into 'the bigger the better' theory. My 1.3L rotary can hold it's own against the 3.5L 350z 's and the subi's out there.
And to those who keep ripping on the v6 duratec, remember that it was developed by porsche then sold to ford.
That same duratec 3.0 V6 is in the Noble M15 supercar. 0-60 in the low 3's; 0-100 in the mid 7's. Not bad for a ford motor eh?
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1,106 Posts
Ya 22 mpg, imagin if you had that big ass maxima engine... Probably wouldnt get over 20...
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75 Posts
I averaged 28mpg highway on my 03 Max. I do not know what it is advertised to average now for the 06 or 07 year, but I am sure that it is higher than the Duratec 3.0.
I am sure you are all aware of this and I am not a huge fan of the marketing of cars and awards, after all the reviews are just opinions. But I do not think this is anyting to sneeze at.
Ward's "10 Best Engines" 2006The Nissan 3.5-liter VQ V6 engine, currently powering the Nissan Z®, Maxima, Altima 3.5 SE, Murano and Quest has been named to the Ward’s "10 Best Engines" list for the 12th straight year. It is the only engine that has been part of the list every year the award has been presented.
You're "sure"? Both are EPA-rated the same and users tend to get roughly the same mileage as well if anything with the Duratec30 getting slightly better (which is expected with a smaller engine in a lighter car). I can easily get 28-29mpg @ 85mph in my Mazda6s.
The VQ is a very thirsty engine when pushed, as evidenced by the results of every one in long-term fleet tests in car rags (who tend to drive their cars hard obviously, but more like I do, so a better personal gauge), where it usually averages high-teens/low-20s over the 1-2 year ownership. I think it was Edmunds that got a whopping 16mpg average over 1-year in their G35, worse than their RX-8, which is pretty bad. I did a search trying to find the source, but a Google of "G35 16mpg" yielded so many hits of people complaining about G35 mileage in the low-mid teens that I can't even find the publication.
I own both, an 03 6s and an 02 I35. The I35 gives you better gas when you are cruising than the 6. That is the reason why we often use the I35 for long travels, because at highway speed this thing is simply a beauty and yes I often get 28mpg on it. but on the other hand it kills you in the city and at speeds above 75, the 6 is better in the city and at higher speeds.
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