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Discussion Starter #1
In a FWD car - Larger rear bar makes for more oversteer.....
In a RWD car - Larger front bar make for more oversteer.....

What is it in AWD... i would think rear being a FWD based AWD system...
 

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In a FWD car - Larger rear bar makes for more oversteer.....
In a RWD car - Larger front bar make for more oversteer.....

What is it in AWD... i would think rear being a FWD based AWD system...
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we already talked about this in another thread. i think in the "mazdaspeed sway bar" thread or something along those lines. but to restate, larger bar in front means more understeer, large bar in rear means more oversteer.

why? oversteer is the case where the the rear wheels head outwards faster than the front wheels during cornering. in order for this to happen, the slip angle must be greater in the rear. to increase the slip angle, more weight must be placed on the outside wheel so a stiffer sway bar would create more weight transfer to the outside during cornering. thus, oversteer or drift.
 

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Pretty much stiffening the rear on any car increases oversteer.

If you think about it simply, what happens if you completely stiffened the rear? You'd end up lifting one tire in the air. 2 tires in the front and 1 tire in the rear, guess which end has more traction?

That's probably the most simple explanation possible.

If you want to experience with the tuning of the car, and you're worried about excessive oversteer...work on mods in pieces instead of whole groups. Test the effects at a local autocross (club events are GREAT for this) or a local DE event.

You can also promote oversteer by running a reverse stagger setup. (Wider tires in the front then the rear).
 

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In a FWD car - Larger rear bar makes for more oversteer.....[/b]
Correct.

In a RWD car - Larger front bar make for more oversteer.....[/b]
Incorrect.

What is it in AWD... i would think rear being a FWD based AWD system...[/b]
A rear bar.

A larger front bar increases oversteer ONLY when the car is severely camber challeneged. In this case, the reduction of body roll keeps the tires more upright in turns, increasing grip up front despite the increase in front roll resistance. The '6 is probably a car where this happens, as reported by Mazda_Gremlyn. Understeer would still be reduced much more effectively with a rear bar, however.

In general, a rear bar reduces understeer and a front bar reduces oversteer. The drivetrain layout doesn't matter. If it has four wheels, that's how it's tuned.
 

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i wonder why Mazda didn't implement a TTL system like they did in the Protege5, and the second generation RX7's? the quasi passive rear steering. i loved it in the P5. throw it into a corner and just when you thought you'd hit a massive whack* of understeer the tail would feel like it was sliding a bit and handling was pretty damn neutral...

while I enjoy the subdued nature of the 6's suspension, i do miss the connected feeling I had with the P5 even if it was a bit twitchy... it felt a lot more like a Miata than it had license to.

just a thought.

-s


* I don't know what a "Whack" is but it's probably a lot :p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Are you sure those particular owners know what they're doing? Make sure when you are reading about suspension mods you visit the track/autox forums, and not just the suspension forums.
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I have talked to the SCCA BS Champion of last year and he says replacing the factory front sway on a RX8 induces oversteer...
 

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I have talked to the SCCA BS Champion of last year and he says replacing the factory front sway on a RX8 induces oversteer...
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Replacing it with a smaller one induces oversteer.

General rule is Larger rear smaller front= oversteer and Smaller rear larger front = understeer. In any car.

That being said.

A competitive auto-X setup is very often DANGEROUS to drive on the street unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing. A car setup to bang cones at lowish speeds can become very dangerous at high speeds.
 

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I have talked to the SCCA BS Champion of last year and he says replacing the factory front sway on a RX8 induces oversteer...
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Well, considering he's racing in stock class, he isn't ALLOWED to change the rear bar!

I already explained how a front bar can help. The '8 is somewhat softly sprung; it makes sense why the stock class guys would increase the front bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am very intruiged, i think i may have been misunderstanding, as they were all saying courses with long sweepers were faster on a stock bar as they could control the oversteer better... i.e. i came to the conclusion with a aftermarket front bar oversteer would be more durastic...
 
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