Mazda 6 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was looking for a little comparison of how other 6s engines are performing so anyone with a scanner, please post up what you have. I used Torque Pro to see the ignition timing dip into -7 deg adv under load when shifting. Beyond that the only concern is the Trims not being to balanced from bank to bank.

From that I tried to see if the EGR coming on was creating the difference but it doesn't appear to upsetting the trims in that way.

Here's an Eye chart and half! Right Scale is for RPM only, left scale is % and/or actual of ## of info measured. The ratchet looking lines are due to log intervals when the sensors are pinged @0.25 Sec intervals. Scanner is now set to 0.10 Sec intervals so we'll see if the connection, software, and Droid HD dual core can log at that rate.

Note: power brake to 2300 RPMs, Load spikes, at the shifts visible and the timing dips negative (retard likely due to detonation or ECM map of load imposed). Trims are fixed per ECM map so there is nothing to see at WOT. I'll dump some premium fuel in it an see what that does for Ign Adv. This will tell us if its mapped or knock sensor pulling it back (I hope).



I'll post up the PIDs and Trims from commuting so we can compare those later. ALSO, any Speed 6 guys that know the equation for the VVT CAM advance, please share as I'd like to see that info but don't know the ID of the sensor or equation to plot it. Thanks in Advance!

JJD952
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Log file for chart above. Format is Excel CSV.

For some reason the Sensor1 O2 voltages didn't log - Wrong PID I guess but it was working earlier.

See attached!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Much more! So worth the $5.00

I was pretty disappointed with the freebe. I mean the Pro is not a Full Blown $400 dollar scanner/logger but for the whole thing costing $20 - its worth it just to get a baseline!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here are some of the items I logged to grab the info up there. I really don't care to capture the "GPS" coordinates and all that so i deleted them.

Device Time;
Absolute Throttle Position B(%);
Air Fuel Ratio(Commanded):)1);
Engine Load(%);
Engine Load(Absolute)(%);
Engine RPM(rpm);
Timing Advance(°);
Throttle Position(Manifold)(%);
Speed (OBD)(mph);
Commanded Equivalence Ratio(lambda);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Short Term(%)
O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 1(V);
O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 1(V);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)(°F);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 2 Sensor 1)(°F);
EGR Commanded(%);
Engine Coolant Temperature(°F);
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I added the graphs I wanted and turned logging on. I emailed the log file to myself but the files didn't have any of the graph data just some random accelerometer data. I didn't realize the logging variables are added under the settings menu. I'll add the correct sensors and then log on the way home tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From: Menu, Settings, Date Logging & Upload,
==> "Select What to log" << Add the items.

Under "File Logging Interval" get it to at least 0.2 seconds.

Sadly, you get different "Menus" depending on what screen you're on when you go in. i.e. setup menu vs Realtime Information menu. Realtime is where email the logs from.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here is the 6s on the freeway at a near steady speed. Fuel trims are so evenly matched but thats about all I can glean from this. I think the Sensor 1 voltage are empty as the setup requires some field I apparently deleted. When I figure it out, I'll edit this.

Also I'll try to confirm if the EGR command is the item screwing the trims up. Let me know if you have any questions. Also, no MIL, no pending codes, all systems are GO!

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
I didn't see if you mentioned, but have you done the EGR mod? If not your results are the same thing that was seen back in the day and the reason for the EGR mod's existence. If not search for it and perform it, your fuel trims will get closer between the front & rear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, painful but true - email csv. As for the EGR, I don't think so as the trims are off even after ECM reset and when EGR is inactive. Post #8 up there show EGR active at cruise. That's why I was looking for V6 results from the 05, 06, 07 and 08 Gang. Just to compare!

Options; I turn off all the BS and turn on only what I want and set the interval to 0.1 sec. I really don't care bout the GPS sh$t. Just wasting bandwidth.

Device Time;
Throttle Position(Manifold)(%);
Engine Load(Absolute)(%);
Speed (OBD)(mph);
Timing Advance(°);
Air Fuel Ratio(Commanded):)1);
Engine RPM(rpm);
Engine Coolant Temperature(°F);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Long Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 1 Short Term(%);
Fuel Trim Bank 2 Short Term(%);
O2 Volts Bank 1 sensor 1(V);
O2 Volts Bank 2 sensor 1(V);
EGR Commanded(%);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)(°F);
Catalyst Temperature (Bank 2 Sensor 1)(°F);
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
As for the EGR, I don't think so as the trims are off even after ECM reset and when EGR is inactive. Post #8 up there show EGR active at cruise. That's why I was looking for V6 results from the 05, 06, 07 and 08 Gang. Just to compare!

Options; I turn off all the BS and turn on only what I want and set the interval to 0.1 sec. I really don't care bout the GPS sh$t. Just wasting bandwidth.
You missed my point about the EGR and what the purpose of the EGR mod is. The reason bank 1 (cyl 1-3, firewall side) is drastically different than bank 2 (cyl 4-6, front of car) is because the egr tube protrudes into the intake manifold blocking airflow headed to the rear bank, which results in the fuel trims being so different (~5-7%). It is also why you see that the trims are different whether the egr is active or not because it is physically restricting airflow to the rear bank in the intake manifold.

Check out this thread for how to perform the EGR mod. Once completed the trims will be much closer, if not almost the same as each other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
^^ OK - makes sense. The downside is it ** appears ** this mode **may** increase the actual volume of recirculated gases. The outlet of my 06 EGR is maybe 1/4" hole. If I hack that off, its easily 6X larger than it was. I am assuming that tiny hole at the end is to limit flow but could be mistaken and this it done elsewhere in the valve.

WOULD LOVE to see the TRIMS on a 6s with this mod done!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
There used to be logs on this site regarding fuel trims pre and post EGR mod. They showed that the mod brought the difference from 5-7% down to 1-2% at the most. I think they may have been links from the old Mazda6tech site which is long dead and most of the information from there is dead along with it now.

The EGR is releasing the same amount of gasses regardless of the small hole or large hole. It is a metered action by the computer. There are no negative side effects to this mod and the benefits is more even fueling between banks, particularly the rear bank running leaner than the front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,995 Posts
^^ OK - makes sense. The downside is it ** appears ** this mode **may** increase the actual volume of recirculated gases. The outlet of my 06 EGR is maybe 1/4" hole. If I hack that off, its easily 6X larger than it was. I am assuming that tiny hole at the end is to limit flow but could be mistaken and this it done elsewhere in the valve.

WOULD LOVE to see the TRIMS on a 6s with this mod done!
It is probable that the thickness between the O/D and I/D that you see is mostly carbon buildup. thegreatNY put up pictures somewhere of his before & after complete cleaning, and it really opened that tube up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It is probable that the thickness between the O/D and I/D that you see is mostly carbon buildup. thegreatNY put up pictures somewhere of his before & after complete cleaning, and it really opened that tube up.
I've got some pictures of the end from mine when I did the plugs I'll post up. Its not carbon. Its a stamped tube with a fixed orifice and deff Not carbon. The thing was clean on the outside at 80,000 miles as was the intake.
But still looking for the other logs as is or mod'd egr.

tks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,131 Posts
I've got some pictures of the end from mine when I did the plugs I'll post up. Its not carbon. Its a stamped tube with a fixed orifice and deff Not carbon. The thing was clean on the outside at 80,000 miles as was the intake.
But still looking for the other logs as is or mod'd egr.

tks

I've got an 07 that I've owned from 0 miles and it's had the EGR mod done since about 1500 miles on the clock, now at almost 53k. The EGR doesn't magically put any more recirculated gases back into the intake than it did before the tube was cut back, like I said it's controlled by the ECU. It doesn't matter if the hole is 1/16" or 6", the same amount of gasses are sent back through it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There used to be logs on this site regarding fuel trims pre and post EGR mod. They showed that the mod brought the difference from 5-7% down to 1-2% at the most. I think they may have been links from the old Mazda6tech site which is long dead and most of the information from there is dead along with it now.

The EGR is releasing the same amount of gasses regardless of the small hole or large hole. It is a metered action by the computer. There are no negative side effects to this mod and the benefits is more even fueling between banks, particularly the rear bank running leaner than the front.
OK - I hear you but I still want to see it. Also, not convinced that opening the outlet won't change the volume but the outlet ID could be smaller to increase velocity or it could be for volume control. Yes, the ECM controls when its applied and to some extent what volume but this is not closed loop as the O2 sensors only read oxygen. Not burned gases so i don't think its as precisely controlled as you suspect as far as Max volume. I say this based upon what the ECM can monitor.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top