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Nikolas at Draxas has put out the challenge, to compare MSDS headers versus CP-e headers on the same day, on the same dyno. He offers this up for free, just for comparison sake.

The Contour guys contend that CP-e's headers don't gain but a tiny bit more than MSDS headers and the price gap between the two, makes CP-e not worth it :laugh:

So if you live in the SoCal area and would like to put those doubting Contour guys to shame, not to mention a former Ford engineer, then contact Nikolas at Draxas and let him know you are up for the challenge. Also make sure to give him a list of your vehicle modifications and year, since he wants this to be a fair as possible comparison.

Nikolas possibly may try to reach davecoyne or z6speed (Or did he part with his 6?) or Loren to come back to re-dyno the MSDS headers (that did the 199.X FWHP with "Ghetto home-made Hot Air Intake, MSDS Headers and Y-Pipe, Ghetto 2.5" Exhaust system split into 2.25" dual mufflers in the rear".

"If any of the 18 Mazda6s owners who have placed deposits for the CP-E headers live in SoCal, I would be more than happy to pay for them to come to the same dyno we used to dyno Loren's Mazda6s (the car we produced 199.xWHP with).

I drove the car for a few weeks, it was a beast, trust me. I took the car to a local Mazda6Club meet and took people for rides...they thought it was a beast.
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Ideally, what I would like to do is get one of the customers in SoCal who has placed an order for a Mazda6 MSDS Header set recently, at the dyno on the same day as a CP-E Header equipped Mazda6. Then we can compare on the same dyno on the same day."

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat...365#Post1143422
 

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Great idea, but I think that the MSDS headers were such utter pieces of shit that anyone who bought them is no longer running them so you won't be able to get back-to-back.

Not to mention the chances of you getting identically modded cars to even hope to eliminate most of the variation (engine to engine variation in itself will be bad enough) is small. With the difference between the two headers on a mildly-modified engine (the MSDS will give diminishing returns as power increases over the CP-E) likely being, at most, 10whp (and very likely even less) you're going to be hard-pressed to get any really convincing results.
 

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Cool! Let the games begin.

I'm a fan of CP-E and think you are buying more than just HP/TQ gains.

ie. compatible products-mafci to that compliment the headers, a company that will support their products, and future development

However, I would tend to guess that header designs won't vary that much in terms of generated HP/TQ. What makes the bigger difference I think is when you combine everything in one complete solution ( ie. intake, headers, y-pipe+hi-flow cats, and proper fuel mapping).

But I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 

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Still here, but as for the headers, I sold them to a Mazda 6 owner out in California and replaced them with two turbo manifolds. I'm interested in seeing the results, I never disliked the power created by the MSDS headers (happy while I had them), but just some small things bothered me (already discussed in previous 6tech thread and MSDS addressed most of the issues).
 

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nice to see a manufacturer back their product..

itd be nice to see cpe provide the combined numbers..
itll show how much gains there are to be made in addition to the intake and whether or not its cost is worth the +xfwhp gain..
 

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i know i can get Atom44wat over to Nik, that's easy. but i don't quite understand how we would compare it to a CP-e setup unless it was on the same car? or would they install the cp-e headers on the car so it's the same car, same dyno? i know he was looking for them, but don't know if they funds showed up for the preorder? he's sponsored by them, so i don't know what would be up...i'll ask him in the morning.
 

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why dont they just find a car with the msds headers already on the car, then dyno it, then switch the headers with the new cp-e headers then dyno again. that's the only real way to get true results. to much tollerance in cars these days.
 

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The MSDS headers that made 7hp (right DaveCoyne?) in an independent brake dyno? The CPE had twice those gains (even on the unpublished brake dyno) and those gains were throughout the entire rev range!

This'll be good fun. Why is Nik volunteering to show his defeat? There's no way his headers could compete with long-tube, equal-length headers with more gradual bends. They shouldn't. Nik's headers cost much less.

Seriously, all the owner experiences from the MSDS headers have been so horrible, I don't think anyone runs them anymore. That's why I don't expect to see this happen.

Still... I hope it does. Would he like to compare intake kits too?

:popcorn:
 

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The only way is to get two baselines from the two different cars, then install the MDMS and CP-E headers on the two different cars, then dyno again, noting the gains. Both cars need to have the same exhaust throughout the test too.

You can't take a car that has had the MDMS headers installed (broken in) for a year vs. a car with recently installed CP-E headers.

Seems like headers on this car are a pain in the butt for installing anyway, so an elaborate test like this will take more than a day.
 

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I am more than willing to take advantage of this. I am one of those still running the MSDS headers. Seeing my involvement with CP-E makes this a great challenge. All I need is the cp-e headers to ship my way and we can do the direct comparison.


The only downside I see for members is the fact that I am driving an atx. I know all of you go boo, but hey thats what I've got lol. The current setup on the car is the tuneable intake MSDS headers and maganaflow catback. I hope to hear good news from this because my car is already set up for this.

crossin my fingers
 

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I am more than willing to take advantage of this. I am one of those still running the MSDS headers. Seeing my involvement with CP-E makes this a great challenge. All I need is the cp-e headers to ship my way and we can do the direct comparison.
The only downside I see for members is the fact that I am driving an atx. I know all of you go boo, but hey thats what I've got lol. The current setup on the car is the tuneable intake MSDS headers and maganaflow catback. I hope to hear good news from this because my car is already set up for this.

crossin my fingers
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Honestly, you would be ALMOST perfect for this. It doesnt matter than you are an ATX or MTX, its the final numbers and the gains over the baseline. Dyno your car with your setup and then install the CP-E setup and dyno that. See what the differences are across the entire RPM band.

The final numbers dont matter, its the differences that I think would matter.
 

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Honestly, you would be ALMOST perfect for this. It doesnt matter than you are an ATX or MTX, its the final numbers and the gains over the baseline. Dyno your car with your setup and then install the CP-E setup and dyno that. See what the differences are across the entire RPM band.

The final numbers dont matter, its the differences that I think would matter.
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Adam has contacted me and he is the most ideal candidate at this point. We plan to dyno his car the way it is now, then have him install the CP-E headers and re-dyno, making no changes other than the header and maybe air-fuel ratio changes on the dyno to make sure BOTH sets of header configurations are tuned appropriately.

Whatever the results, this should finally give us the data we need to accurately compare the two header sets... Apples to Apples. If the CP-E headers gain 10 more HP than the MSDS, then fine. At least we'll know. Whatever the difference (if any) potential future customers will have more knowledge of the products on the market and will be better positioned to spend their money.
 

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Adam has contacted me and he is the most ideal candidate at this point. We plan to dyno his car the way it is now, then have him install the CP-E headers and re-dyno, making no changes other than the header and maybe air-fuel ratio changes on the dyno to make sure BOTH sets of header configurations are tuned appropriately.

Whatever the results, this should finally give us the data we need to accurately compare the two header sets... Apples to Apples. If the CP-E headers gain 10 more HP than the MSDS, then fine. At least we'll know. Whatever the difference (if any) potential future customers will have more knowledge of the products on the market and will be better positioned to spend their money.
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Well said and I look forward to the results.
 

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I am waiting on a response to a recent email to Josh over at CP-E to see what we can do about getting this project moving. I am looking forward to this as well. I am somewhat excited to see where the real gains are.
 

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If i lived in SoCal i would gladly show up, im going to dyno in about a week to see what numbers im running, ill post them up im doint the run without the Nitrous.
 

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be nice if CP-e would do the turbo manifold for the v6, i'd have the rest done up........ but i guess it too much of a challenge.;)
 

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One side comment...... arent the MSDS headers and Y-pipe catless and non-street legal? I was on the Draxas website awhile back and I thought I remembered hearing/reading that there were no cats in the Y-pipe.

CP-E is making their headers with a Y-pipe with and without cats. If you want a true equal comparison, be sure to test catless headers against catless headers.
 
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