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Discussion Starter #1
Was talking to a friend today who is very very familiar with turbo's and he brought up a good point about our top mount inter-warmer...

The way Intercoolers are always tested to ensure proper cooling is with the air coming out of the BOV...

SOOOO...

If someone who is running VTA could drive their car around... get the car warm, drive it in traffic, basically put the car through MAXIMUM heat soak...

Then pop the hood and have a friend rev the car to 5Kish...

Put your hand over the BOV where the air is venting, and here is the key...

The air SHOULD be very cold... like putting your hand into a freezer cold... (He told me some tests on his old Turboed VR6 showed a 30 degree F air flow)...

Thanks for those who could help, just trying to make sure the factory Intercooler is the actual problem with the heat soak issues...
 

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Was your friend living in Canada? Intercoolers are nice but they don't work miracles. I've never seen one "freeze" an intake charge. If you take the plastic cover off, you should be able to feel a noticeable temperature difference between the intercooler intake and outlet, then you know it's working.

Cam
 

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Discussion Starter #3
In Orlando, FL... and a proper running intercooler should get very cold...
 

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In Orlando, FL... and a proper running intercooler should get very cold...
[/b]

It's not an air conditioner. :drive:


IF you can get within 20 degrees of ambient temperature you are doing very well.
 

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Wiggum,

The intercooler is "air cooled". It's cooling effectiveness is based on the ambient temp of the air flowing through it.

ie if its 80F outside...the intercoolers effectiveness is based on the 80F incoming air. It won't ever EVER drop below ambient. (Without additonal external forces)

I highly recommend you get that book asap and start reading! It'll give you tons of info, and its crazy easy to read, and cheap to boot!

I'll type an example from the book tommorow if this thread is still alive...I'm on a laptop now and my typing speed is crazy crappy.
 

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The only way the intercooler can cool air to under ambient temps is if it is a air to water and you put some ice in the resevoir. Even then the air charge will be warm.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Then why is the intercooler 50 degrees after being run??? I went and ran the car yesterday and with a VERY accuratce temperature gun the IC on the car was 51.8 degrees farenheit...

It has 95 degrees outside yesterday with serious humidity...

Everything else in the engine bay was EXTREMELY hot...

After sitting for an hour the IC was well over 100 degrees...

So you tell me why air passing thru a 50 degree IC couldn't be colder... its just straight LOGIC....

And for those asking about the temperature gun, it is a very expensive surface temperature gun used to detect metal temperatures inside a working food case...
 

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I think we are saying your thermometer is busted straight to hell.

I'd say if your intercooler somehow got to 50F..when the ambient is 95F, then your thermometer isn't calibrated properly or you aren't actually hitting the intercooler. (Hitting an AC condensor line, the plastic shroud around the IC, or the mesh over the shroud). Make sure when taking readings that you verify a control temp prior to pointing it at another piece of metal, then make sure the plastic cover is completely removed before pointing it at the intercooler.

A quick test would be to point it at the turbo. If that says 75F...you need a new IR thermo, or your car is completely broken.

I mean lets think logically here. The intercooler is air cooled, and has extremely hot charge temps going through it.

There is nothing actively cooling the intercooler. It's cooled directly by the ambient air going through it, which in this case, was 95F. Franchize just provided alot of IAT and ECT data in 75F ambient showing IAT temps of 100F. It would be theroetically and physically impossible for the intercooler to ever be below the ambient temp..if anything, its going to be 60-80F above it.

The hotter the ambient air, the less effective an air/air intercooler is.

The only intercooler I know of that can be "charged" with air conditioning is the ford lightning.

You do realize the air going into the intercooler is rated in the hundreds of degree's F right?
 

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The air inside the intercooler can never be cooler than the intercooler itself, which can never be cooler than the ambient air cooling it. However, with the intercooler being over the engine (and itself being much too small), it probably never cools the intake charge to anything less than 75 degrees over ambient- or 150 degrees on a 75 degree day. This is a BEST case scenario- I bet the typical intake charge is much higher given how crappy the intercooler placement is.

The IAT that Crossbow mentions is taken at the MAF, prior to the turbo and subsequently prior to the air getting heated. If someone saw IAT of 100 degrees on a 75 degree day, that shows that a cold air intake could reduce the intake charge by 25 degrees. The intercooler would have less work to do. Thus, a cold air intake would probably be useful.
 

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I think we are all aware that air cools when it expands. Play with one of those cans of compressed air, it becomes very cold after a few squirts.

Now I can assure you that cold air you are able to see from the BOV NEVER enters the cylinder anywhere near that temperture. You realize that the BOV goes right back into the turbo and picks up 200F of temperture all over again.

In any case, the intercooler present on the MazdaSpeed6 doesn't cool the post turbo air any closer than 20 degrees of ambient temperture.


Maybe your 'very expensive surface temperature gun used to detect metal temperatures inside a working food case' is reading Celcius?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think we are saying your thermometer is busted straight to hell.

I'd say if your intercooler somehow got to 50F..when the ambient is 95F, then your thermometer isn't calibrated properly or you aren't actually hitting the intercooler. (Hitting an AC condensor line, the plastic shroud around the IC, or the mesh over the shroud). Make sure when taking readings that you verify a control temp prior to pointing it at another piece of metal, then make sure the plastic cover is completely removed before pointing it at the intercooler.

A quick test would be to point it at the turbo. If that says 75F...you need a new IR thermo, or your car is completely broken.

I mean lets think logically here. The intercooler is air cooled, and has extremely hot charge temps going through it.

There is nothing actively cooling the intercooler. It's cooled directly by the ambient air going through it, which in this case, was 95F. Franchize just provided alot of IAT and ECT data in 75F ambient showing IAT temps of 100F. It would be theroetically and physically impossible for the intercooler to ever be below the ambient temp..if anything, its going to be 60-80F above it.

The hotter the ambient air, the less effective an air/air intercooler is.

The only intercooler I know of that can be "charged" with air conditioning is the ford lightning.

You do realize the air going into the intercooler is rated in the hundreds of degree's F right?
[/b]
Thermometer is VERY well tuned... used daily for COMMUNITY HEALTH purposes... and today my IC read 58 degrees....
 

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Could you take a photo of what your shooting the thermometer at? The last MPS 6 intercooler I saw was so hot I'd be terrified to touch it without incuring massive burns on my hand.

It is physically impossible for an intercooler to cool a charge anywhere near ambient temps. It would have to defy the laws of thermodynamics to cool a 200-400F charge temp to half of the ambient temp, when its cooled by ambient air.

I could believe 158F...that makes sense given your ambient temps. Whats the last 100F+ object you took a reading off of? Try shooting the radiator and seeing what reading you get. If it reads 87-95, that explains everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah Wiggum, touch it. It must feel cold at 58 degrees!
[/b]
Turbo read a lil over 200 I think.... IC was reading 140 after sitting for an hour...

If anyone on here has ever worked in food retail and had the health department come in they know what these guns are...
 

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If that's true, then the only left is you aren't hitting the intercooler, or something is interfering with the reading. I bet you I could go crack an egg on the intercooler and cook it in a few seconds.

All i can figure is your angle of attack is wrong. 140F makes sense, 58 defy's all the thermo laws of the universe. 158 makes perfect sense.

Your coolant temp is at least 190F.
Your intake temp is at LEAST 95F.
The exhaust leaving the turbo is 200F+.

Yet somehow your intercooler cools to 58F. Thats about as likely as all the webcam girls in that video thread showing up at my house in the next 5 minutes.
 

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If that's true, then the only left is you aren't hitting the intercooler. I bet you I could go crack an egg on the intercooler and cook it in a few seconds.
[/b]
Damn, someone with a Mazdaspeed should make an egg injection system.

At WOT, an egg drops onto the intercooler. This cools the intake charge and at the next stop sign, breakfast is ready! Perhaps you could add some bacon secondaries.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Crossbow... i don't understand your reasoning...

140F is VERY HOT... (I live in FL and have to feel 90+ constantly...)

And when i get out of my car after a drive the IC is cool to the touch... other speed owners have commented on this...
 

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I don't understand yours.

How does something that functions on ambient air get below ambient air? Especially when 200F air is entering it internally, and 95F air is entering it from above. I declare it impossible to reason with you, and give up. You win. Your intercooler is the best I've ever seen on the market. Congratulations, you'll never have any problem with deonation.
 
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