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Discussion Starter #1
I did a search and wasn't able to find a result I was happy with.

I am looking for feedback on rotors made by Rotora, and Carbotech.

Do they improve dissipation in turn improving braking, or is it placebo, and i should return to OEM?
 

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I did a search and wasn't able to find a result I was happy with.

I am looking for feedback on rotors made by Rotora, and Carbotech.

Do they improve dissipation in turn improving braking, or is it placebo, and i should return to OEM?
[/b]
All replacement rotors match the OEM requirements; some skimp on vane configuration to make one-size-fits-all rotors for many makes and models. The better ones mimic the vane configuration of the OEM rotors.

To my knowledge, only two among the many replacement rotors available for the Mazda6 are D3EA certified. I have researched the options pretty thoroughly, and my money went for the Raybestos PG Plus. http://www.raybestos.com/usa/products.htm

Good rule to keep in mind: when purchasing anything, the company that makes nothing but the product you are looking for is a good bet. (For instance, Plextor CD/DVD disk drives for computers have to be good, because Plextor makes nothing else: if they are bad, the company goes down. But if, say, a Mitsubishi drive is bad, Mitsubishi can make up the difference by selling something else.) Raybestos specializes in automotive friction materials, does nothing else. They have been in business for years, and are very good at what they do.
 

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All replacement rotors match the OEM requirements; some skimp on vane configuration to make one-size-fits-all rotors for many makes and models. The better ones mimic the vane configuration of the OEM rotors.

To my knowledge, only two among the many replacement rotors available for the Mazda6 are D3EA certified. I have researched the options pretty thoroughly, and my money went for the Raybestos PG Plus. http://www.raybestos.com/usa/products.htm

Good rule to keep in mind: when purchasing anything, the company that makes nothing but the product you are looking for is a good bet. (For instance, Plextor CD/DVD disk drives for computers have to be good, because Plextor makes nothing else: if they are bad, the company goes down. But if, say, a Mitsubishi drive is bad, Mitsubishi can make up the difference by selling something else.) Raybestos specializes in automotive friction materials, does nothing else. They have been in business for years, and are very good at what they do. [/b]
just out of curiosity, who was the other D3EA certified company.?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What does the certification require?

meaning why is it better to buy Raybestos...vrs Carbotech aside from the certification?

maybe I should be more specific. I'm looking to replace my pads and rotors. I'm going to get my stock rotors turned so a fresh surface can be exposed so that I can use them them at the track and beat on them without worrying about having to drive home on them too. The front FOG light mounts have been modified and the rotors already are ducted inside to out (which i'm not sure is even right), and i was loooking for the X10's or X16's from Carbotech.

But I want some decent rotors to match up with some decent pads for daily driving. I'm not a crazy fast driver, but I do like to corner and brake hard. Pads are important, but IMHO so are the rotors and i want to make the right choice.

So I was looking at a set of Rotora Ceramics for pads. Low noise, low dust simply because I like a clean car. Quite frankly I'm anal about a clean car. (unless you have a better suggestion which is always welcome)

I degress. So in my search for rotors I couldn't find any feedback on these two brands RPM sells. They seem reputable, but frankly I just don't know.

That said...you bring up an interesting angle which I didn't think of. Are our OEM rotors certified? If so..they are AC Delco?

Your recommendation on Raybestos has changed my tune....as it was another reputable aftermarket I wasn't aware of. Raybestos isn't as commonly found here in Canada as it is in the States...come to think of it I don't remeber seeing one.

Anyways.....thanks for your help this far...still intersted to learn more. I've read some great articles, and posts on the topic that have this far explained a lot to me.
 

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What does the certification require?
[/b]
Official website

TireRack's enthusiastic endorsement of D3EA

meaning why is it better to buy Raybestos...vrs Carbotech aside from the certification?
[/b]
Price is a good place to start. :) You can find a pair of front Raybestos rotors for the Mazda6 for under $100.

maybe I should be more specific. I'm looking to replace my pads and rotors. I'm going to get my stock rotors turned so a fresh surface can be exposed so that I can use them them at the track and beat on them without worrying about having to drive home on them too. The front FOG light mounts have been modified and the rotors already are ducted inside to out (which i'm not sure is even right), and i was loooking for the X10's or X16's from Carbotech.

But I want some decent rotors to match up with some decent pads for daily driving. I'm not a crazy fast driver, but I do like to corner and brake hard. Pads are important, but IMHO so are the rotors and i want to make the right choice.

So I was looking at a set of Rotora Ceramics for pads. Low noise, low dust simply because I like a clean car. Quite frankly I'm anal about a clean car. (unless you have a better suggestion which is always welcome)

I degress. So in my search for rotors I couldn't find any feedback on these two brands RPM sells. They seem reputable, but frankly I just don't know.

That said...you bring up an interesting angle which I didn't think of. Are our OEM rotors certified? If so..they are AC Delco?

Your recommendation on Raybestos has changed my tune....as it was another reputable aftermarket I wasn't aware of. Raybestos isn't as commonly found here in Canada as it is in the States...come to think of it I don't remeber seeing one.

Anyways.....thanks for your help this far...still intersted to learn more. I've read some great articles, and posts on the topic that have this far explained a lot to me.
[/b]
I don't know who the OEM supplier of the Mazda6 rotors is. Rumor has it that Mazda subcontracted the design of the Mazda6's braking subsystem to Akebono, but I have seen no "official" confirmation of that rumor, and if true, that still would not mean that Akebono ended up as the parts supplier.

I suggest you start with Crossbow's excellent summary here.

Then, continuing with posts from My Favorite Author:

See this post, . . .

. . . and this post, . . .

. . . and this post.
 

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Official website

TireRack's enthusiastic endorsement of D3EA


Price is a good place to start. :) You can find a pair of front Raybestos rotors for the Mazda6 for under $100.


I don't know who the OEM supplier of the Mazda6 rotors is. Rumor has it that Mazda subcontracted the design of the Mazda6's braking subsystem to Akebono, but I have seen no "official" confirmation of that rumor, and if true, that still would not mean that Akebono ended up as the parts supplier.

I suggest you start with Crossbow's excellent summary here.

Then, continuing with posts from My Favorite Author:

See this post, . . .

. . . and this post, . . .

. . . and this post.
[/b]
I would wish that someone, perhaps a non-interested third party, could do some real world tests on various brake components.
I'm not saying that certified rotors are smoke and mirrors, far from it.....you definitely will get quality parts with those brands, but does that mean the several serious performance companies offering brake system parts are all making junk? Somehow I doubt it, or they simply wouldn't be in business anymore.
Are there a lot of less than OEM quality rotors out there? Yep. Will they kill you or cause an accident? Probably not, but they are made cheaper than the OEM parts for those who only consider cost when purchasing repair parts. Would I use them? Not a chance.
I'm wondering if cooling vane design is really the make or break subject to be considered. While racing and hard track use makes brake cooling critical and things like cooling vanes become as important as pad and fluid selection, for the most part I don't think the average street-driven car, even one that is occasionally driven hard (I.E.: Autocrossing) would notice any difference between cooling vane design in several different brands of rotors.
Cheap rotors are made quicker, thats one of the biggest differences. The amount of time the rotor casting is allowed to cool in its mold has a lot to do with its strength and durablilty. The cheaper companies pull 'em out quicker to meet production quotas that let them sell cheaper. I actually had a set of autozone rotors once that the metal started chunking off of the friction surface on, and I was using a very gentle set of Performance Friction street pads on a 2001 Impala, hardly a performance car. This happened with two sets in a row, and after changing nothing but brands of rotors the problem went away. These were cheap rotors, period, despite being their "premium" brand. (Which, with most Autozone house brand stuff puts it just a small notch above what you could scrounge out of a junkyard).
Tire Rack makes an excellent point about balance in braking performance, and here again a cheap rotor may have some wide tolerances in its manufacture. But I still dont see them saying that if you don't buy D3EA parts you're going to be asking for trouble, it seems to be more of a piece of mind thing that you buy yourself with something like a certified rotor, the knowledge that its not going to fall apart or suffer from erratic performance due to substandard manufacturing.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
great reads...

I like this author...he seems to really know his stuff.... :)

Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions.....it all makes perfect sense now
 

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I would wish that someone, perhaps a non-interested third party, could do some real world tests on various brake components.
[/b]
Amen, brother. I think a lot of us would.

Are there a lot of less than OEM quality rotors out there? Yep.

Cheap rotors are made quicker, thats one of the biggest differences. The amount of time the rotor casting is allowed to cool in its mold has a lot to do with its strength and durablilty. The cheaper companies pull 'em out quicker to meet production quotas that let them sell cheaper.

Tire Rack makes an excellent point about balance in braking performance, and here again a cheap rotor may have some wide tolerances in its manufacture. But I still dont see them saying that if you don't buy D3EA parts you're going to be asking for trouble, it seems to be more of a piece of mind thing that you buy yourself with something like a certified rotor, the knowledge that its not going to fall apart or suffer from erratic performance due to substandard manufacturing.
[/b]
Undoubtedly, there are some reputable manufacturers whose products we all would trust completely. At the same time, we all know that there are some bad models from some very good companies, recall campaigns due to design defects from giant corporations. (The spate of laptop computer recalls this year due to batteries that could catch fire is one example that comes to mind.) The peace of mind that D3EA brings is that it tests the rotors in vehicle-specific applications. That reduces the chance of error due to design defects, and leaves only the manufacturing defects you allude to above as potential sources of trouble. As to the manufacturing defects, I think you can rely upon manufacturer reputation.

In the end, however, there is not a lot of difference among rotors, as long as you follow the sensible caution to avoid rotors that have been drilled after they were cast (as opposed to rotors that have the "drill" holes cast-in as part of the die). That being the case, the D3EA certification does give the peace of mind to concentrate on the rest of the braking system, such as pads and tires.

Historically, the "Big 3" of aftermarket brake parts in North America have been Wagner, Bendix, and Raybestos. After a bankruptcy and several misadventures, Bendix Brakes is now a small part of Allied Signal. Bendix retains some interesting international technology-sharing arrangements with Mintex and Jurad, from which have emerged some excellent products (such as the Axxis/PBR Ultimate pads from Australia). Wagner is still in bankruptcy, and made a spectacular (and failed) atetmpt to "buy" huge amounts of asbestos liability in an effort to add valueof a kind that only Wall Street types can understand. Raybestos alone of the "Big 3" has continued in a relatively straight-line manner as a specialized supplier of automotive friction materials.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Barton Auto PArts here in Hamilton is supplier.

BOOTH STREET AUTO SERVICE

297 BOOTH STREET
OTTAWA,
Ontario K1R7J8

(613) 233-4767

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BROADVIEW SERVICE CENTRE

1784 CARLING AVENUE
OTTAWA,
Ontario K2A1E1

(613) 725-2650

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MAX AUTO SUPPLY

1556 MICHAEL STREET
OTTAWA,
Ontario KIB3T7

(613) 741-0337


Theres more but Max looks to be the best
 
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