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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
There are alot of variables...but you have to take into account as well my driving habits too (are you guys familiar how I drive a stick shift?). How I anticipate incoming merging traffic and avoid it, to take advantage of continuing momentum, slowing down and leting go of my gas pedal, several hundred feet and being easy on the brakes, free wheeling, etc, and so on..

Its all about the driving techniques. And it plays a huge part, in my cars fuel economy numbers.
Which has exactly nothing to do with any additive you put in the oil (or lack thereof.)

Again, thermodynamics (and exactly where energy losses happen in engines generally, and of what magnitude the various sort of losses are, which tells you what is possible) provides a means to mathematically falsify the sort of efficiency gain claim without having to examine the vehicle itself.
 

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Facts speak for themselves, and science is science.

You have to show friction reduction through wear metals. Good luck.

Oh, and everything is up the middle on oil condition, no consumption, no fuel dilution and viscosity is on-the-money as well.

It doesn't get better than this folks.... (yes, I removed the personally identifiable information)
Gee Ticker that's not very scientific. You have a new car and you used a decent synthetic oil and change it well within a safe change interval. You got a good oil analysis... Big deal! How does this lead you to conclude "don't waste your money on moly"? Do you live in a southern warm climate? What about guys who live in Buffalo and start there cars in minus whatever winter weather?....Moly wouldn't be a benefit? Considering the fact that start up is where most of the engine wear occurs what about not only weather conditions, but the duration between use of one's vehicle, your logic is not only a fallacy, it is downright bad advice! What you all should be talking about is not liqui moly, but CERATEC liqui moly! Ceratec is nano particle technology involving essentially sand particles (sounds outrageously stupid on the surface) that actually repair wear damage in engines and protects them along with the moly. What are your plans for your car ticker? Is it a lease? If you own do you plan to replace it within a few years? If your plan is to long term keep and drive your 6 than you will sacrifice long term engine life by not using the Ceratec. I suggest you don't believe me, and then research it on "Bob's the oil guy" for yourself. There is multiple accounts of this stuff bordering on miraculous in it's capabilities to protect engines. Even make damaged engines run as one guy experimented (you can read about that too) Also you will find photos of engine tear downs showing the Ceratec actually filling in wear spots on the bearings etc.! On fellow has an account of his wife's Windstar van using Ceratec liqui moly. In 90 plus degree city summer heat she knocked a hole in the oil pan (not uncommon in these vans - poor design) and ran the van in stop and go traffic for over 10 minutes before noticing the oil light! The van's engine sound never wavered (so sound didn't alert her), and when she saw the oil light she phoned her husband who told her to pull over and shut the vehicle off. Sometime later the husband with a buddy came back ( upon diagnosing it had a hole in the pan and no oil) jerry-rigged the hole and filled it with oil. These guys expected the engine to be seized or severely damaged at best. The couldn't see any large amounts of oil for blocks so they knew she had ran this thing for a min. of 10 minutes or so...maybe longer! The damn thing fired up first crank, ran like a champ and is still going today....pulled the pan off when replacing it and found no out of the ordinary signs of wear particles! This guy was beside himself at how well the cerated liqui moly protected that engine...gee do ya think?!! LOL! Wanna try a science experiment ticker - try this with your Penzoil Platnum and see how that works out for ya LOL! Your going to have to do a lot better than decent OA numbers as conclusive proof that Ceratec liqui moly is a waste of money. Ask the guy with the windstar if he was glad he spent 10$ per oil change interval! LOL!

Your logic on CLM is as bad as your CAI claims. You cite 5% gain as being no proof (just like throttle tip in confused racing tiger, as it falls within built in error with the dyno)...yet when you read the conditions on the before CAI to after pulls, all of the ones I've looked at show the temp. rose along with the humidity of the air by the time the CAI was installed and dynoed...yet the 5% power gain you want to attribute as insignificant, do to the potential error margin?....do you not understand the dyno error margin you are citing is primarily do to the atmospheric changes from one dyno pull to the other on identical vehicles with identically calibrated machines?....more like if the atmospheric conditions were identical in both runs the CAI would have shown even more than a 5% gain (kindly elaborate how I am not being scientific here if you dare).... not very scientific for a smart guy like you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Total garbage.

My "other" vehicle is a 2003 TDI Jetta in which I have run Rotella T6 since first change off the factory fill. I do all the wrenching on that car and have since it was bought with 4 miles on it at the dealer.

It has 198,000 on the clock, it consumes about half a quart between 10k interval changes (recommended interval by the manufacturer) and it is still on all original internal parts -- including cam and lifters. Oh yeah, the turbo is original too and I'm sure you know what lubricates THAT. Yes, the timing belt has been changed twice (by myself.) I have never run an oil additive in that engine nor do I in my Suburban (which gets driven rarely; it's primarily a towing vehicle.) I know exactly what the top end looks like on the Jetta because the valve cover has to come off to change the timing belt, and I had the injection pump resealed about a year ago (which required pulling the valve cover to lock the cam at TDC while the timing belt tension was released.) That was around 25k miles ago. It'll come off again in another ~40k or thereabout as that will be the timing belt interval and I have no reason to expect that I'll want to do anything with the top end of the engine -- and that's at a quarter of a million miles on the clock.

UOA figures are what they are.

I'm running 7500 mile intervals as that's what Mazda recommends. Given what I'm seeing in the UOA I suspect a 10k interval would be just fine but until the warranty runs out that's dumb and I've got another 15k+ miles to go before that happens. At the cost of 15 minutes of my time and $30 worth of oil and filter I'll change it on manufacturer-recommended interval for now.

If you own do you plan to replace it within a few years? If your plan is to long term keep and drive your 6 than you will sacrifice long term engine life by not using the Ceratec.
Utter and complete crap as are your claims for CAIs.

I expect to keep my "6" for north of 200,000 miles and 10 years; I own the car outright. Given the empirical evidence at hand I have utterly no reason whatsoever to run any sort of oil additive, just as I have had utterly no reason to do so on any of my other vehicles.
 

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Gee Ticker that's not very scientific. You have a new car and you used a decent synthetic oil and change it well within a safe change interval. You got a good oil analysis... Big deal! How does this lead you to conclude "don't waste your money on moly"? Do you live in a southern warm climate? What about guys who live in Buffalo and start there cars in minus whatever winter weather?........
When was the last time an engine failed for you on a vehicle you've owned? Alright, how about a family member? Neighbour?

If you plan on keeping your 6 for a long time... do you seriously think your 2.5G is going to end up in metal fragments on the highway if you don't use this stuff?

I've never had an engine fail on me, and have gone 240,000miles on 2 separate vehicles. By that time, the vehicle was basically worthless, and sold for $500-$750.

So even if I wanted to keep the Mazda 6 for 10-12 years, I don't care to keep the engine in perfect operating condition, because nobody is going to buy my used engine regardless of what I say I used in it.

The car/engine at that point is basically worthless.

Based on that logic, so is this thread. The OP showed that it has shows no improvements on his new car, and provided factual information - in an effort to stop everybody from wasting their money... and yet people on here continue to cut into it with no factual information. "IT QUIETS MY INJECTORS LOL." "IT KEPT AN OLD WINDSTAR RUNNING ON BOBISTHEOILGUY LOL."

/thread
 

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@solar365, I leave way early in the morning (5-5:30AM) work drive. I live 2 miles away from 10fwy West on ramp (virtually no one on my side streets, at that time period). Another 2 miles in #4 lane (least traffic resistance) 10 West to 710S. Then, 13 miles on lane #1 at 75mph average, burst safely up to 85mph all the way to Imperial Hwy exit with virtually any traffic at all (freewheeling as I approach to offramp). That direction, is also against traffic..away from going towards downtown Los Angeles (710N direction). Upon exit, I take Imperial side street ...still another traffic free side street (I can hit 6th gear) until I arrive to my parking structure, at work. When I get home, opposite direction..this time 65mph average, up to 75mph when lucky, and I always take the lane safely with the least resistance...till I get home.

I'll probably post my Blackvue dash cam footage of my drives..you'll be the judge.
 

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I'm sorry guys, let me get this right.

I've got one guy saying that moly is god's gift to car owners because, look at this awesome mileage I got with moly.

I've got another guy saying that moly has been positively, undeniably confirmed as snake oil because, look I had an oil test done and my engine hasn't already destroyed itself in a couple of oil change intervals without any moly.

I'm just trying to decide which of the two is the dumber argument. I suppose pulling the "If you argue with me on the internet, I'm going to take my toys and go home" card may just seal the win, but the jury's still out.
 

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@solar365, I leave way early in the morning (5-5:30AM) work drive. I live 2 miles away from 10fwy West on ramp (virtually no one on my side streets, at that time period). Another 2 miles in #4 lane (least traffic resistance) 10 West to 710S. Then, 13 miles on lane #1 at 75mph average, burst safely up to 85mph all the way to Imperial Hwy exit with virtually any traffic at all (freewheeling as I approach to offramp). That direction, is also against traffic..away from going towards downtown Los Angeles (710N direction). Upon exit, I take Imperial side street ...still another traffic free side street (I can hit 6th gear) until I arrive to my parking structure, at work. When I get home, opposite direction..this time 65mph average, up to 75mph when lucky, and I always take the lane safely with the least resistance...till I get home.

I'll probably post my Blackvue dash cam footage of my drives..you'll be the judge.
After reading this whole thread, I'm really just fascinated you have NO traffic on your drive. Jealous :grin2:
 

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Well any 0W20 Grp III syn oil nowadays, is pretty good. Mazda/Idemitsu Molybdenum 0W20 for Sky-Activ engines, Mobil 1 EP 0W20...even the dealer bulk OEM Castrol Edge 0W20. Same goes for the PP...

Indeed, just follow ticker's lead...leave the molybdenum/MoS2 alone, away from your engines. To him, it is "snake oil"...

While me, on the other hand (skeptic is my middle name, esp on true snake oils)..I'm still sticking on MoS2, for my 2.5L (cause I will keep procuring them Liqui Moly MoS2 bottles...at every opportunity I can). Don't make it hard for me to find them (as it already is, as I am down to 1 bottle left, of my case stash). So leave them MoS2 bottles alone...:laugh2:

See...everyone is happy (especially, me and my 2.5L). Let's just leave it at that..:grin2:
 

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What are your plans for your car ticker? Is it a lease? If you own do you plan to replace it within a few years? If your plan is to long term keep and drive your 6 than you will sacrifice long term engine life by not using the Ceratec. I suggest you don't believe me, and then research it on "Bob's the oil guy" for yourself. .
Guinman you sound like a billboard for Ceratac. I have had cars go 200,000 miles over 15 years with jiffy lube/valvoline oil changes, (non-synthetic) in cold New England conditions. No fancy Ceratec or Molys, engines never had any problems, replaced those cars because of other maintenance problems or simply got fed up.

Ceratac/Moly may reduce friction and some engine wear but the life of the engine is far more than you will ever fully use it up unless you drive 30,000 miles/year and intend to keep it going for 10+ years.
 

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Wow I missed some fun here.

@ EXB5. You mileage is very, very good given your commute as well.

It appears you've successfully stacked all the variables in your favor. How much is about the Moly? Who knows.

From the looks of this thread though, we could all keep flinging poo for a little while longer regardless. LoL
 

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When was the last time an engine failed for you on a vehicle you've owned? Alright, how about a family member? Neighbour?

If you plan on keeping your 6 for a long time... do you seriously think your 2.5G is going to end up in metal fragments on the highway if you don't use this stuff?

I've never had an engine fail on me, and have gone 240,000miles on 2 separate vehicles. By that time, the vehicle was basically worthless, and sold for $500-$750.

So even if I wanted to keep the Mazda 6 for 10-12 years, I don't care to keep the engine in perfect operating condition, because nobody is going to buy my used engine regardless of what I say I used in it.

The car/engine at that point is basically worthless.

Based on that logic, so is this thread. The OP showed that it has shows no improvements on his new car, and provided factual information - in an effort to stop everybody from wasting their money... and yet people on here continue to cut into it with no factual information. "IT QUIETS MY INJECTORS LOL." "IT KEPT AN OLD WINDSTAR RUNNING ON BOBISTHEOILGUY LOL."

/thread
I'm not sure people are trying to refute ticker's low engine wear, I think they are trying to refute the statement that $15 a year is a waste of money with moly. It depends on your objectives.

For somebody the extra smoothness/quietness may be worth $15 alone. Or what if it helps mileage, and power a tiny smidge as well. What about peace of mind knowing youre doing your absolute best to take care of your car, minimizing wear as much as possible... there could be a lot of reasons why Moly is still a good deal for somebody.

I think it is a bit of a straw man argument to say that people are using Moly to keep their engine from losing all it's compression within their ownership period requiring an engine replacement due to wear. I think we can all agree that's idiotic and not the goal of Moly users.

Speaking for myself, I enjoy an engine that has 130k miles running and pulling like it's brand new, because it's the car I've got and I want it to perform its best until the day I get rid of it. Any extra gas mileage, smoothness and peace of mind along the way are bonuses.
 

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Wow I missed some fun here.

@ EXB5. You mileage is very, very good given your commute as well.

It appears you've successfully stacked all the variables in your favor. How much is about the Moly? Who knows.

From the looks of this thread though, we could all keep flinging poo for a little while longer regardless. LoL
Lol..yeah looks like it. On my last fuel fill, with clean, new Mazda OEM Castrol Edge 0W20 syn oil + MoS2 + Chevron Techron Injector Cleaner, added on full on 91 Premium...I was quite surprised myself. Nothing dramatic changes on my driving really...other than the 4 combo stuff above in use. I really hope to replicate that mpg result. Also, I'm running pure 91RON from hereon (with the lowest gas prices, in years) to experiment and observe further..

Moly/MoS2 is a lubrication "mod", to me. An added "insurance" to "soup-up" to an already good Grp III syn oil in the engine. And for the record, I'm not dissing ticker's UOA results. In fact, as I mentioned..any modern Grp III hydrocracked 0W20 syn oil nowadays, would work well on our 2.5L. In fact, without MoS2's availability..I woukd definitely run PP 0W20... With that said, molybdenum is settled science as a superb friction modifier. It has been around for countless decades, with a very long history and track record of efficacy...if this friction additive (molybdenum and/MoS2) was engineered and formulated, even by Mazda engineers in collaboration with Idemitsu of Japan (Mazda/Idemitsu 0W20), for the Sky-Activ engines...I can't say nor discount it as simply, "snake oil".

Oh and btw, I will do a Blackstone UOA on this syn + MoS2 fill...but it won't be sooner than May of next year. For now, I'll be ordering another case of LM 2009...on the prowl.
 

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#1 .. do whatever you think is best for your car or whatever you have good experience with.


MoS2 additives are mainly just to create a "coating" of MoS2 on all of your parts, so when you do a "dry start" in the beginning of the day, you don't have any un-oiled components rubbing together (until the oil is pumped through). That's where your major wear would be.


What are Friction Modifiers?


You're just replacing that layer every so often. Most motor oils have some sort of friction modifier. However, I'm not sure you can give a blanket statement that Moly is useless or it's the miracle Tonic.


Unless the modifier changes the viscosity, it shouldn't have an effect one way or another on your MPG. MoS2 isn't really changing the fluid flow (Ok, it may alter the contact energy of the surfaces, thus changing the friction at the interface, but would MoS2 change it drastically compared to ZDDP, or something else?), so other than dry start wear, I'm not sure how much good it's doing for your engine.


My primary concern would be how do the various friction modifiers interact. I'd just prefer to stick with one motor oil and go from there.


Again, stick to what you have had good experiences with.
 

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The amount I spent on the first two cases of OEM moly oil that I bought from the dealer was less than I would have spent buying an alternative. Nice dealer discount. I would be wasting money, therefore, buying NON moly oil. Each oil change I use 4 quarts of OEM moly and 1 of Mobil 1 so each case lasts me 3 oil changes.
 

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On top of my common high 30s, low 40s combined mpg, I can truthfully attest that the direct injection ruckus and noise, had virtually disapperared (compared to when I first got the car, running on factory fill Mazda)...even on cold starts, when I commenced the LM MoS2 regimen..

Now that, in itself (on top of several pros of MoS2 on fuel economy, low wear coefficient moly plating of engine metal internals, added engine protection and is able to withstand extreme high load 400,000psi pressure capacities..), is well, well worth it, over the $5 per bottle expense/OCI, for its multitude of benefits.

I highly doubt, if a straight up 0W20 syn oil (even the bulk Mazda dealer OEM Castrol Edge 0W20 in my engine now) with nil to low molybdennum can quiet up a noisy DI, as our 2.5L when mine came in new, out of the box, from factory...without MoS2.

Yeah..don't waste your $5 on Moly..;) :D
You mean molly changes mechanical properties of DI? :nerd:
Also, the modern synthetic oil does not coat the engine's metal parts and has no friction reducers?:grin2:

Oh boy....
 

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Wow I missed some fun here.

@ EXB5. You mileage is very, very good given your commute as well.

It appears you've successfully stacked all the variables in your favor. How much is about the Moly? Who knows.

From the looks of this thread though, we could all keep flinging poo for a little while longer regardless. LoL
Hey, the other day I painted my CD Player green and it has improved the sound-stage depth by 20%. I think the "highs" are clearer now to.

Now, I think if I paint the shelf on which the CD player rests also green, I may gain another 5% improvement:grin2::grin2::grin2:
 

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You mean molly changes mechanical properties of DI? :nerd:
Also, the modern synthetic oil does not coat the engine's metal parts and has no friction reducers?:grin2:

Oh boy....
Yeah oil isn't going to eliminate the rattle from DI. Also these discussions are not black and white, they are shades of gray. So your second question is a straw man argument trying to make us look as ignorant as possible so piss off.
 
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