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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Facts speak for themselves, and science is science.

You have to show friction reduction through wear metals. Good luck.

Oh, and everything is up the middle on oil condition, no consumption, no fuel dilution and viscosity is on-the-money as well.

It doesn't get better than this folks.... (yes, I removed the personally identifiable information)
 

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Love to see UOA data.
Nothing like facts & real world data to tell the story!
 

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I'm waiting to get my oil examined, need the silly test kit to arrive. I've been running Mazda's recommended Castrol with 5k intervals almost on the dot. I've also been running strictly Shell gasoline with a 6-month "flush" of a single full tank of Shell V-Power. I'll have my valves checked out and be sure to report back to everyone :D

Thanks for the info, ticker.
 

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Facts speak for themselves, and science is science.

You have to show friction reduction through wear metals. Good luck.

Oh, and everything is up the middle on oil condition, no consumption, no fuel dilution and viscosity is on-the-money as well.

It doesn't get better than this folks.... (yes, I removed the personally identifiable information)
I agree moly isn't necessary based on what you are seeing.

But I'm not sure this proves moly is a waste of money for everybody, it is only what $10-20 a year depending on oil change intervals?

It depends how extreme your objectives are. Moly should reduce wear even further because it coats parts which should reduces startup friction when most wear occurs, and it is scientifically know to have exceptionally low friction coefficients so there could be ever so slight gains to fuel economy and power which may add up to $15 a in dollars and cents and intangibles like feeling more power and smoother running.

Personally when I did my first oil change, and dumped in a full bottle of Moly, it felt good, but good like any new oil change would be, but I have peace of mind that I can't do any better than what I'm running.
 

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Nice post ticker - my UOA was on my second oil change and as a result it doesn't look as good due to all the wear metals still washing out. It's good to see yours did so well on the Pennzoil.

"Copper and silicon are reading high in this first sample from your Mazda, but these readings are normal for a new engine such as this. In fact, we would've been more surprised if they hadn't been there. New engines produce excess copper (from brass/bronze parts), along with other wear metals, and silicon is from harmless sealers. A lot of this washed out in your first oil change, and things should improve more next time. Averages are based on ~6,100 miles of oil use, but your strong TBN of 4.4 says you can go longer. Try 7,500 miles and check back. Nice!""
Code:
Oil Brand		Mazda
Oil Type		OEM with Moly
Oil Weight		0W-20 SN
Miles on Oil		5800
Miles on Car		7600
Sample Date		7/23/2014
		
Aluminum		2
Chromium		0
Iron			18
Copper			34
Lead			0
Tin			1
Molybdenum		732
Nickel			1
Manganese		1
Silver			0
Titanium		0
Potassium		5
Boron			231
Silicon			25
Sodium			6
Calcium			2190
Magnesium		12
Phosphorus		754
Zinc			884
Barium			3
		
cSt Viscosity @ 100C	6.92
Flashpoint		400
Fuel			<0.5
Antifreeze		0
Water			0
Insolubles		0.2
TBN			4.4
 

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Is attaining 42mpg (best, combined mpg) a waste of molybdenum?..I don't think so.

Molybdenum is settled science, as a friction modifier. Proven for decades, since WWII thanks to the Germans...

Besides, I can definitely afford $5/bottle of LM MoS2, per OCI (just did another fill, added at last Vets Day dealer OCI 15K visit)..from my local LiquiMoly dealer/parts supplier.

I consider MoS2, a lubrication "mod"..for my long stoke 2.5L. We all spent (or "waste", depending how you see it) $$$ on mods, mostly the superficial stuff (cosmetic/looks) anyways...what is $5, per OCI. This is one mod, with true benefits to my engine, my mileage, and my gas wallet. To each, his own. :)
 

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This is one mod, with true benefits to my engine, my mileage, and my gas wallet. To each, his own. :)
On top of my common high 30s, low 40s combined mpg, I can truthfully attest that the direct injection ruckus and noise, had virtually disapperared (compared to when I first got the car, running on factory fill Mazda)...even on cold starts, when I commenced the LM MoS2 regimen..

Now that, in itself (on top of several pros of MoS2 on fuel economy, low wear coefficient moly plating of engine metal internals, added engine protection and is able to withstand extreme high load 400,000psi pressure capacities..), is well, well worth it, over the $5 per bottle expense/OCI, for its multitude of benefits.

I highly doubt, if a straight up 0W20 syn oil (even the bulk Mazda dealer OEM Castrol Edge 0W20 in my engine now) with nil to low molybdennum can quiet up a noisy DI, as our 2.5L when mine came in new, out of the box, from factory...without MoS2.

Yeah..don't waste your $5 on Moly..;) :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
It's in my local WallyWorld, believe it or not, in 5 qt jugs. Reasonable too.

The only noise my engine makes of note at idle is the quiet ticking of the injector solenoids themselves. Nothing you can put in the oil is going to change that.

(There are several other friction modifiers besides molybdenum disulfide, and various oil makes use the package they believe will best meet requirements. Proof as to effectiveness is found in a UOA; you will not know if you are improving or degrading your overall wear picture if you start adding things to your oil fill unless you run a baseline UOA or two without it that return comparable results and then add your concoction and re-test. Without that you're GUESSING.)
 

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Definitely. There is no dispute here. There are several friction modifiers around. However, I would stick to the extreme high load capable, friction modifier molybdenum (either as in the specially formulated OEM Mazda Moly 0W20 for Sky-Activ, or in MoS2 form of LiquiMoly, added to syn oil since 5,000+mi/1st OCI..). I have no issues on costs, running either lube. I will do a UOA on this fill, when the 6mos is up (I don't drive much really with <900mi/mo, but could run it up to 7,500Kmi as per Sched 1, but 6mos is the absolute I will go, racking up only 5,000+mi in that period. Either/or...while still on B2B warranty). But for now, I'd stick to what works superbly for my engine. Just by the surprising quietness now of my 2.5L engine, with LM MoS2 (for starters)..I won't trade what I use now inside my engine, for anything else.
 

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Is attaining 42mpg (best, combined mpg) a waste of molybdenum?..I don't think so.

Molybdenum is settled science, as a friction modifier. Proven for decades, since WWII thanks to the Germans...

Besides, I can definitely afford $5/bottle of LM MoS2, per OCI (just did another fill, added at last Vets Day dealer OCI 15K visit)..from my local LiquiMoly dealer/parts supplier.

I consider MoS2, a lubrication "mod"..for my long stoke 2.5L. We all spent (or "waste", depending how you see it) $$$ on mods, mostly the superficial stuff (cosmetic/looks) anyways...what is $5, per OCI. This is one mod, with true benefits to my engine, my mileage, and my gas wallet. To each, his own. :)
Just came back from Costco Gas tonight. Drove 222.2mi/4.715gal filled (premium 91RON) = 47.126mpg combined..This morning's drive, my fuel gauge indicator hash reached "1/4" (still 3/4 tank full) when I hit 200mi on the trip meter...

Looks like I have to edit that above, to.. "Is attaining 47mpg (best, combined mpg) a waste of molybdenum?" :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh c'mon.

The difference in pump shut-off points plays hell with short fills, and you can't avoid it with a gas-fueled vehicle either due to the vent arrangement in the tank. With a diesel, assuming you either have no vent or have disabled it, you can -- and I did in my Jetta, which resulted in extremely reliable fill volumes that allow me to fill all the way to the neck of the tank.

You'll NEVER get that with a gas vehicle due to the charcoal canister, and if you disable the vent mechanism you'll destroy the canister by flooding it, which will trip a MIL code and cost you a pretty penny to get fixed (if you live in a state that cares, and many do.)

This sort of nonsense and self-serving pud-pulling is why I stopped posting here, and if it continues it will cause me to stop again -- this time permanently.
 

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This is just tonight's fuel fill (same Costco Gas station, same pump). This btw I may add is 1st fuel fill, post 15K/18mo OCI, on new bulk Mazda OEM dealer Castrol 0W20 syn + full 10oz bottle of Liqui Moly MoS2. Oh, and forgot to add, the tank has Techron Fuel Injector Cleaner (I use in tank, every 2,500mi). 40psi all around.

None sense, really? Say what you want to say...it is, what it is. I'm not into BS stuff. What would I get, if I do..

This is MoS2, on my car...like I said, I won't trade what I use now in my engine, for anything else.

Molybdenum/MoS2, on my 2.5L...is the real deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
How much money would you like to lose on a wager that you cannot improve overall fuel economy by your claimed 20% through addition of your magical snake oil?

You should run a thermodynamic analysis on your claim before you answer because it's pretty trivial to falsify your claim (hint: frictional losses in an engine and driveline can be quantified and in fact are pretty-well understood, and no loss can in fact reach zero. Aerodynamic loss can be calculated from the cD, speed and frontal area, all three of which can be discerned.)
 

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Aw man. Real world fuel economy has way too many variables to ever be able to settle an arguement. I did not notice a change in MPG after my first oil change where I added Moly, of course the break in oil had moly and only had 3k miles...although the engine did sound quieter/smoother after the change.

I think I got an improvement in fuel economy when I added my straight through muffler, and more fuel economy when i added my SRI intake and even more fuel economy when I went to 91 octane gas, and it dropped when I opened up the front of the car to draw in cold air for the intake, and drops when I go back to 87 octane.

But all I know for sure is my current fuel economy (@ 4500 miles) driving hard (long term gage reading 26-27mpg) is better than it was when I first bought the car babying it during break in (long term gage reading 23-24mpg), which all cars do improve MPGs as they break in, so who knows.

ExB5, how is the tire wear at 40psi? Is the center of the tread wearing okay relative to the outside? Also are you satisfied with your traction around corners? 40psi is kinda on the high end, which would definitely benefit your mpgs, but does have some downside risk.

And ticker is right about error in single tank fill ups, especially the 5 gallon variety. Your best argument is a series of fillups in a row where you show a good average mpg.
 

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There are alot of variables, definitely...but you have to take into account as well my driving habits too (are you familiar of how I drive a stick shift, or driving in general?). How I anticipate incoming merging traffic way ahead and avoid it (I always use the fwy lane with the least "resistance") to take advantage of continuing momentum, appropriately slowing down and letting go of my gas pedal..slowing several hundred feet from actual stop and being easy on the brakes, free wheeling (often), turning off the engine and avoiding excessive idling in traffic, railroad crossings, waiting in line in the gas station, wherever there is a long wait, etc, and so on and so forth...everything, adds up.

Its all about the driving techniques. And it plays a huge part, in my cars fuel economy numbers.

@solar365, my tire wear is all good on 40psi cold max (adjusted only in cold, mornings..playing in 38-40psi range). I've been running around this pressure, even on my old rides. Even wear (shoulder end to shoulder end), good to long tire life, ride is fine and cornering/handling is average to nimble. Tire rotation...is "religious", so to speak. I'm quite happy with this tire pressure setup.
 

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There are alot of variables...but you have to take into account as well my driving habits too (are you guys familiar how I drive a stick shift?). How I anticipate incoming merging traffic and avoid it, to take advantage of continuing momentum, slowing down and leting go of my gas pedal, several hundred feet and being easy on the brakes, free wheeling, etc, and so on..

Its all about the driving techniques. And it plays a huge part, in my cars fuel economy numbers.
I intended for driving habits/techniques to be part of my argument of too many variables. We do not disagree.

However your statement of "spirited driving" is misleading. It sounds to me on average you are very careful about your fuel economy which strikes me as conservative not spririted.

I run full throttle at least once every time I drive and pretty hard the rest of the time and that is on a 5-7 mile commute with hills and 55mph surface streets with stop lights. I'll call that spirited driving, LoL. I'm very proud of of my car's 26 mpg given the circumstances.
 
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