[flipper66]

So I have been helping my buddy replace his engine on his 2004 mazda 6. We got an ATX 2004 mazda6 engine from what we were told. the Buid dates on his original engine is 09/27/03 and the new engine is 5/4/04 as memory serves.

What I'm finding is differences in:

Crank pulley (expected this as the I4's have like 11 different ones)

Plastic valve cover, not metal like his original

there is a dip stick hole in the new engine's oil pan, but does not have a tube for the dip stick. the dipstick itself seems to be self contained in the valve cover and goes through the center of engine to the pan.

did the location of the dipstick move from model to model? why is there still a lower port? and is there something I need to make sure it is sealed.

both are engine have plug wires so the era is correct, just wondering why something so odd as the dip stick is relocated.... specially when everything to mount and fit it remained.

as for the swap itself, we pulled the old engine from the top. Will do a whole write up when we are all done. alternator, exhaust manifold, crank pulley, tensioner pulley, and more must be pulled for sure. Will add more as we get this bad boy back in. there are 2 bolts on the "new engine" that are in the flywheel that are fused to the crank and we can't get them removed so we can install his Aftermarket Fidanza flywheel an clutch master stage 3. Probably going to need machine work to get them out, but waiting to see what the JY we got the new engine from about what they want to do.

as for what I'm working with, Pics......

(new engine)







(old engine)

(useless tool...lol or something like that)

 

[Final Impact]

I'd guess in the FoMoCo application in say a Ranger P/U truck, the dipstick hole was drilled as the truck application has a deeper pan with a different layout.
Are you saying the hole in the block was already punched open and plugged in some way?? Perhaps it came from a truck, went to a car and then to a Mazda??? IDK!

 

[flipper66]

idk, when we got the "new" engine it was still full of oil. I haven't even drained it yet as I really didn't want to have to aim the drain plug on the crane.

If you look at the pics of the "new engine" you can clearly see the dip stick behind the fuel rail.

on the old engine it is outside of where the intake manifold should be and way away from the fuel rail.

 

[xkreedx]

@Nojodas67

Let this guy I tagged chime in. He has done the most swaps out of anyone I've seen and knows quite a bit about what is necessary.
The dipstick changed locations after 04 and remained in the valve cover.It should already be sealed off unless you are changing oil pans.

 

[flipper66]

That is good to know thanks bud. I was actually hoping you would chime in as other than Mono and Mr. Tea, I don't know many 2.3L guys at all that would have the kind of information I really need.

If kris's car wasn't a hatch I would be sure it was an 03. the car doesn't have ABS either which I have never seen in another car as it was an "option" on early models. though, I haven't seen it all as I saw a OEM tape deck in an 03 F/s locally about 2 months ago. I thought that was a unicorn too....

 

[xkreedx]

No abs? That's weird. Mazda did a lot of revisions to the first versions of this engine. Don't worry about the crank pulley though. Look at nojodas posts. I think he did a small write up on someone else's post.

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[Nojodas67]

I just bought another 2006 Mazda6 with a bad engine and I'm putting in a 2007 Fusion engine. I will post a write up with pictures this time.
As far as pulling your engine out, it can come out complete, WITHOUT removing any accessories, if the parts mentioned in my original writeup are removed first (core support, radiator, A/C condenser and bumper reinforcement bar, headlights, etc). It's MUCH easier this way.

Today, I'm picking up a 2006 Ford Escape with a bad 2.3L, I will do a write up on that one too, but I'm not sure if I should post it in this forum or not; maybe I will, since the Mazda Tribute (I've done 2 so far) are basically the same vehicle.

As far as your concern about your swap, it really does not matter where the dipstick is located, I've interchanged them both ways and worked fine.

Go ahead and remove your core support and cooling, then you'll be able to put your engine in from the front, not drop it in from above; and you'll be able to put it in complete, with both intake and exhaust manifolds, all accessories and serpentine belt already installed. It's much easier, I can't stress that enough. Then once you verify the engine is running well and you are convinced that you are done, then you can recharge your A/C system (It just takes 2 cans of refrigerant at $10 each at W/M).

 

[xkreedx]

Since he has two different crank pulley's does he need to swap them? @Nojodas67 I thought I remembered you saying nothing needs to be done there but the intake cam needs to be changed if the crank pulley's do not match up. It's been awhile though so I can't remember for sure.

 

[flipper66]

great reading. sometimes I got to stop being bull headed and thinking I don't need to read up a bit more. Obviously it worked, I just did it the "hard way"

 

[happywrenching]

Since he has two different crank pulley's does he need to swap them? @Nojodas67 I thought I remembered you saying nothing needs to be done there but the intake cam needs to be changed if the crank pulley's do not match up. It's been awhile though so I can't remember for sure.

When I went from an 06 Mazda to an 06 Fusion engine the crank pulleys were different but the cams were the same so I think the cams changed when they switched to coil-on-plug ignition. But, it won't hurt to pop the valve cover and compare the timing cogs on the cams.

 

[flipper66]

Any thoughts what might stop this swap from starting? I have everything plugged into to my knowledge and it cranks with the starter but never turns over. it isn't stalling out or falling on its face like a vac leak....

We are going to clean out the fuel tank since it has been sitting for a year, the stabill may not have worked as well as I hoped when I put it in the tank 3 weeks ago.

beyond the not starting thing, everything seems straight.

 

[happywrenching]

Did you check the timing cogs on both of the intake cams? Were they the same? Are you at least getting a spark?

 

[Nojodas67]

Any thoughts what might stop this swap from starting? I have everything plugged into to my knowledge and it cranks with the starter but never turns over. it isn't stalling out or falling on its face like a vac leak....

We are going to clean out the fuel tank since it has been sitting for a year, the stabill may not have worked as well as I hoped when I put it in the tank 3 weeks ago.

beyond the not starting thing, everything seems straight.

1. Unplug the MAF sensor connector and see if it starts in safe mode.
2. I also have the same question, your old engine should have 5 kogs on the intake camshaft timing wheel, make sure the new engine has the same number of kogs.
3.Crankshaft wheel:Are both wheels the same diameter and do they have the same tooth pattern. I don't know why Mazda does this, but they made several different crank wheels.

Compare the two different crank sensors below, which one does the old engine have, which one does the new engine have? If they are not the same, you must use the old sensor, old crank wheel, old intake camshaft, and old timing cover.

 

[flipper66]

1. Unplug the MAF sensor connector and see if it starts in safe mode.
2. I also have the same question, your old engine should have 5 kogs on the intake camshaft timing wheel, make sure the new engine has the same number of kogs.
3.Crankshaft wheel:Are both wheels the same diameter and do they have the same tooth pattern. I don't know why Mazda does this, but they made several different crank wheels.

Compare the two different crank sensors below, which one does the old engine have, which one does the new engine have? If they are not the same, you must use the old sensor, old crank wheel, old intake camshaft, and old timing cover.

1. I already tried that. Didn't work, just spins and spins with the starter till the battery gives out.

2. haven't checked, will have to dig into that this weekend as well.

3. we have figured out the crank pulley is not timed properly and kris is picking up the timing tools from SURE today.

we got a different crank sensor in the engine and discussed changing it. We will be using the old pulley (once it is timed properly), but do the sensors really have to be changed. they are just there to read the trigger marks on the crank pulley.

I have no desire to change the cams on these cars.... so hopefully re-timing will fix all that is needed.

 

[Nojodas67]

1. This first step will take no more than 5-10 minutes. First thing you have to do before you try and time the engine is take the valve cover off and verify that you have the correct intake camshaft in the new engine; otherwise, you'll be taking it all apart again, including valve cover, crank wheel, timing cover, etc. then you'll be having to time the engine again! If the number of camshaft kogs in the new engine is different than the old one, you have to swap camshafts; there's no getting around that.

2. Then, you have to address the differences in the crankshaft wheel and the differences in the crank sensors (they are different and NOT interchangeable). Look at the pictures above, then tell me which crank sensor came out of your old engine, and which crank sensor came with the new engine...you still have not answered that.

 

[flipper66]

The 1st engine has the "old style"

the engine that is good running engine is the "new style" crank sensor.

the crank pulleys were different, as were the crank sensors. the more I type the more I'm thinking the the Cam gears are going to be different, but if the Cog is the difference, can I not just change the gear instead of the whole cam?

 

[happywrenching]

Looks like you will have to swap the intake cam. The timing cog is part of the cam - you will need to swap the whole thing.

 

[xkreedx]

@flipper66 are you sure that SURE's has the 2.3 duratec timing kit? It's different than the MZR timing kit.

 

[flipper66]

The mzr timing tool isn't the same? Bah.... I'm so over this engine and all of its changes. Makes me love my 3l more and more.

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[xkreedx]

Yeah they are different. For sure the cam lock tool is.