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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everybody, I have been working on my sound system and ended up upgrading the door speakers. I have the bose sound system and had the issues with the spider coming undone from rust. Instead of fixing them I decided to replace them with 10 inch kicker rt's.

This required me to make a custom bracket to fit the subwoofer. The rear of the magnet clears the window and the front doesnt interfere with the door panel. These subwoofers are waterproof and provide a much tighter and deeper bass. Only mods required are trim the hole on the door for clearance (still can reinstall old bracket and it will seal), trim a ring on the interior of the door panel, and adjust the door stops. When I say this BARELY fits I'm serious. But it does and everything appears stock.

My prototypes are made of 2 layers of MDF. They attach to the factory mounting points. These work fine but are susceptible to moisture. I am planning on making a single piece design using solidworks and 3d printing them. Just curious if there would be any interest in these? They allow the mounting of any 10 inch woofer that is within the dimensions of a kicker rt10. I would be open to modifying the designs for other custom speaker sizes aswell. I could sell the brackets by themselves, or with the hardware and weather strip included. I'll post updates as I make the design and print out my set.

The plan is to do this anyway so I thought I would reach out for any comments or feedback. This setup is more than sufficient for bass and can be a work around for a trunk sub for those wanting to stay stock appearing and keep trunk space. I have added sound deadening to the door and fixed rattles with foam inserts. Even with the stock amp, the bass is much cleaner, tighter, and deeper than stock, with no rattles.
 

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Hello. We always love custom work especially when it integrates well.
I would say that pictures speak volumes so when you have an available example, posting photos would help gain traction. Additionally having a price for the product and maybe another for the 3d plans, at a cheaper price point, would also help solidify interest.
Keep up the great work and thanks for adding to the community.
 

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My question is, what are you planning on doing with the frequencies above 500hz? The door speakers are larger so they can play the lower notes, but also be capable of playing above 3500hz.
 

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Pending price I would be up for a set and I know a few that would want them if I endorsed them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sorry for the wall of text and slow response, things have been busy with school and life. Just wanted to get a feeler out there.

I plan to get pictures of the prototypes and general set up in the next week or so, and hopefully can get the design underway in the next week or two aswell!
 

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Sorry for the wall of text and slow response, things have been busy with school and life. Just wanted to get a feeler out there.

I plan to get pictures of the prototypes and general set up in the next week or so, and hopefully can get the design underway in the next week or two aswell!
So, just gonna ignore my frequency concerns?
 

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For anyone else that's interested in new sound systems I would check out crutchfield.com. I also swapped out my stock non-bose speakers for some nice kickers and they came with the brackets so they fit right and they gave me the correct harness connectors so you only have to splice in the 2 wires. The harness and extra hardware for mounting was all free as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My question is, what are you planning on doing with the frequencies above 500hz? The door speakers are larger so they can play the lower notes, but also be capable of playing above 3500hz.
I'm not exactly sure what your concerns are. Did you mention 500 hz because the subwoofers upper frequency response is rated at 500 hz? This is not a problem at all with the bose system where the door speakers are already the subwoofers.

In the standard 4 speaker system I see where your concerns might arise. I wouldnt suggest doing this door sub upgrade in a 4 speaker car without other upgrades. I believe the stock dash speakers in that setup are tweeters so obviously the subwoofer and tweeter themselves will not integrate well by themselves with that setup, even with external crossovers and amplification. If one has the standard system this would be just part of a larger upgrade scheme.

Even with the bose system where the subwoofer integrates well with the stock frequency range, my system is not complete. I plan to get a 12 channel dsp to have full control over each speaker in terms of time alignment, crossovers, and parametric equalization.

So in short I see this as a drop in upgrade for those with the 11 speaker bose system, or part of a larger custom setup. Some people may value having upgraded subwoofers without having to waste space in the trunk.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
They arent "subs", they are midbass/midrange and play well over 500 hz. Im not saying dont do it, but its not a drop in like people will believe.
A tone sweep test shows I am not missing out on any frequencies and they are essentially completely crossed over to the dash speakers by 500hz with very minimal response from the subwoofer. The subwoofers actually arent even using their full frequency range. I've tested subwoofers well above these frequencies and they will still play so that wouldnt necessarily have been a limitation in the first place.

For the non bose setup you are correct. However, nothing about this is just drop in even for the bose setup. You still have to cut the door for a larger hole, modify the mounting of the door stop (if you want max mounting depth for more speaker options), in addition to cutting a plastic ring off the inner door panel. It DOES look stock however, and the old brackets and speakers can be reinstalled to boot.

Sound systems can become highly customized, and I am attempting to provide a bracket and mounting solution that greatly opens up space for options. The bracket I am proposing along with the suggested subwoofer and installation methods integrate with the stock bose system. As for other systems, personally I dont care what subwoofer/driver or crossover point you choose.

To summarize, I am trying to provide a bracket and installation path that integrates with the stock bose system in addition to opening up custom possibilities for all 6 owners.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I was hoping to post once I had final results but thought I would give a brief update.

I am a senior mechanical engineering student at Clemson University and am starting my last semester. I plan to use Clemsons "makerspace" to print out these brackets. Things have been closed the last several weeks due to COVID but the shop is opening back up in the next few days. I actually just started an additive manufacturing class that goes into 3d printing and other similar processes. This will be a good learning experience and my professor even suggested using this bracket for the semester project. I plan to have prototypes printed soon but am excited to revise my idea with the aid of someone that is an expert at the doctoral level. Overkill for a speaker bracket for sure but this should be an interesting journey!

Almost done with my virtual prototype, just need to add gussetting. Additionally, I plan to add a slope to the bottom portion of the bracket to prevent a place water could accumulate. I am essentially taking the design features from the stock design and beefing things up for a 14 pound 10 inch subwoofer. Feel free to add any comments or suggestions!


Some notes for the current design:

The driver will be attached using self tapping screws to allow for any driver configuration.

Reuses stock mounting hardware

Uses a weather strip between the bracket and door

The water shield is in the same orientation as stock but larger to protect the larger driver. This also allows the same bracket to be used on both sides of the vehicle just like stock.


I am having issues uploading the screenshots so here is a link to one of the images for the time being Screenshot1.jpg
 

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Might i add, see if you can actually create an enclosure. It would have to be two pieces, but would also eliminate the water issue. (Edit: i didnt see your link... its gonna have to be a LOT more robust to withstand a Kicker Comp and will require more contact with the door cause itll flex like paper.)

Ive been noticing now that its continually cold, my stock speakers breath enough air, i cant rest my arm on the upper door cause it throws cold air into the car. You put a 10" WOOFER in there vs a midbass and youre gonna move a lot more.

On my car, and im sure on the 6, there is a lot of wasted space along the bottom of the door where the window doesnt even come close to touching and i was thinking about using that as air space, till i decided to try another idea that would be a lot simpler and make the whole assembly removable if needed.

So, if you did a tube of sorts, maybe like an inverted house design (pointed on the bottom) so it nestles in the bottom and runs the length of the door, you could reach almost 1cu ft based on my loose calcs from last summer. That would greatly increase volume and depth of bottom end.

I havent opened up my door recently, so im not 100% sure where the L brace behind the door speaker sits in relation to where a compartment like i described would meet, but im sure you could make a leg that goes up to bolt to/meet the back of the speaker adapter to seal it off.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok so I have finally finished my training and have access to Clemson Makerspace yesterday, and even got the first prototype printed out! It took 17 hours
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I tested the prototype by hand and am quite impressed with the strength of the whole bracket. The watershield in the first prototype is 2.5 mm thick, while the rest of the bracket is 5 mm thick. There appears to be a weak point along the base of the watershield due to the way layers are printed. With about 10 pounds of force on the tip of the shield, a crack started in the corner. The shield is very strong in the center, it is just easy for cracks to start in the corner.

The first prototype is meant to test the overall process and to check dimensions, in addition to providing insight for my second prototype.
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I have made a few changes as can be seen from the Solidworks screenshots. I added gusseting for the rim, and strengthened the watershield by making it thicker (5mm at the base) and adding ribbing (2.5 mm at the base). Additionally, I adjusted the mounting holes and added material around them.
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I have changed a few of the printer settings to hopefully produce a higher quality product. I have sent the second prototype to be printed and estimated time is 25 hours!

I used the following settings for those who are curious:

Prototype 1
Material: PLA
Resolution (line thickness): 0.3 mm (coarse)
Shell thickness: 1.5 mm
Infill % (fill inside shell): 60% crosshatched

Prototype 2
Material: PLA
Resolution (line thickness): 0.2 mm (standard)
Shell thickness: 2 mm
Infill % (fill inside shell): 60% crosshatched

(I was planning on making the whole bracket solid, but 60% was the recommended maximum infill % and was curious about the strength with infill used)


Unfortunately, I am limited to PLA material in the current lab. If another material is needed I may have to use a different facility. My additive manufacturing professor is working on getting students access to the additive manufacturing lab which would have more materials at my disposal. There are many plastics and even metal 3d printing options.

If that does not pan out, I can submit parts to the 3d printing experimental lab for a fee. I could use ABS or Nylon which would have better strength and thermal properties. Additionally, the resolution is ridiculously small while also being able to control color while printing! The lab technologist showed me a drum he 3d printed with a .25 mm membrane that was perfectly smooth!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Might i add, see if you can actually create an enclosure. It would have to be two pieces, but would also eliminate the water issue. (Edit: i didnt see your link... its gonna have to be a LOT more robust to withstand a Kicker Comp and will require more contact with the door cause itll flex like paper.)

Ive been noticing now that its continually cold, my stock speakers breath enough air, i cant rest my arm on the upper door cause it throws cold air into the car. You put a 10" WOOFER in there vs a midbass and youre gonna move a lot more.

On my car, and im sure on the 6, there is a lot of wasted space along the bottom of the door where the window doesnt even come close to touching and i was thinking about using that as air space, till i decided to try another idea that would be a lot simpler and make the whole assembly removable if needed.

So, if you did a tube of sorts, maybe like an inverted house design (pointed on the bottom) so it nestles in the bottom and runs the length of the door, you could reach almost 1cu ft based on my loose calcs from last summer. That would greatly increase volume and depth of bottom end.

I havent opened up my door recently, so im not 100% sure where the L brace behind the door speaker sits in relation to where a compartment like i described would meet, but im sure you could make a leg that goes up to bolt to/meet the back of the speaker adapter to seal it off.
In response to your post, I actually thought about going the full enclosure route at first. That would definitely make for an airtight enclosure. There are a few design considerations I ran into and it didn't seem worth it even if one is able to get about 1 cu ft out of it and iron out the details.

Clearance: Even if a trough shaped enclosure were made that fit nicely and with no interference from the window, there are still clearance issues coming from the door stop. I adjusted its mounting position so that it barely misses the subwoofer at an angle, but it would still hit right where the enclosure would mount. There would possibly be a way around this but that would require lots of design, trial and error, and additional volume loss.

Water Drainage: If a trough-shaped enclosure is filling the bottom of the door, drainage would have to be considered. This would require either a smaller enclosure or drainage tracks along the sides of the enclosure which would still slightly reduce volume, in addition to time spent on the design.

Mounting: I highly suspect I will not be able to maximize enclosure volume while also being able to fit it inside the door through the speaker opening. The size required for the rear mount would be larger than the opening anyway. A more complicated design and mounting strategy might work, but don't feel the effort is worth it.

Production: I am limited to 11"x11"x9.5" parts on our largest printer in the lab, so the enclosure would have to be made in pieces. (this might actually make assembly more feasible, but also more tedious and prone to failure after assembly)


Current Solution: Isolate door panel from cabin (minimize $, maximize volume, also well damped and easy to install)

The subwoofer doesn't need an enclosure so much as the rear waves need to be isolated from the cabin. (if curious, search infinite baffle enclosure). Using sound deadening to seal the door panel from the cabin has proven to be an effective solution. I have covered all holes and cracks in addition to adding sound deadening over the mounting holes for the push pins (cut slits to allow mounting). This provides dampening for the door panel in addition to sealing it from the cabin. I will provide pictures of this and the rest of the setup once I have the chance to test out the prototype.

The only part that doesn't seem to be fully sealed is at the top by the window like you mentioned. In my experience, I do not feel any air from the subwoofer at the top by the window (tried to feel it at high volumes and low frequencies). I do feel some cold air here in the corner when the sunroof vent is open, and all windows are up with the a/c off. Overall, I am more than satisfied with the level of isolation especially considering it is a door mount solution. The seal may not be 100% perfect, but I am able to have clean audible bass down below the point where the entire door is flexing, still without any noticeable leaks. The loss in volume at low frequencies for a smaller true enclosure would likely more than offset any loss I am currently experiencing due to leaks into the cabin. I will say that the current design is an improvement in every way over stock.

With the current solution, the door is adequately sealed and damped, while being able to use all of the available volume inside the door (maybe more due to leaks out the back of the door from drainage holes and other cracks). I think the dampening and isolation solution is easier, cheaper, and probably better than the best possible enclosure solution. If anyone is still not satisfied with the level of tighness, volume, and low end extension, it's time to upgrade with a trunk setup. I plan to do this in the future to really take care of frequencies below 30-35 Hz, well below the point a door speaker really has any business attempting to reproduce.
 

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I have my source EQ'd pretty well so that the stock speakers pound pretty good, and at 30 (which is about the max on most of my music before major distortion occurs), is when i feel it. I dont know if the air was on recirc or not, but it wouldnt make a diff with the rear trunk mounted vents anyway, the cabin isnt sealed from the outside.

Keep up the good work and thanks for allowing the geek talk without getting offended.
 
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