[kungfuandy]

Not a great day for me, 193 hp and 214 tq. I know a dyno numbers are relative and a tune will make a difference but still, its a day ruiner. So according to this dyno, my stock car must have been making like 160-170? Sigh. On top of that I was the last car to dyno, showed up at 11 and got out at 5. Big wait for a big disappointment.

 

[Kokopellian]

Damn, that is disheartening man. Sorry.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Not a great day for me, 193 hp and 214 tq. I know a dyno numbers are relative and a tune will make a difference but still, its a day ruiner. So according to this dyno, my stock car must have been making like 160-170? Sigh. On top of that I was the last car to dyno, showed up at 11 and got out at 5. Big wait for a big disappointment.

No, you weren't the last car, I made two sets of runs. That Mustang dyno is the WORST possible thing to run on for "actual" WHP. It is a good TOOL, but the numbers produced are only relative to use as a baseline to tune on THAT dyno. I learned a LOT about that particular dyno hardware and software today. My car also set the TC fault light. I had a spirited conversation with Josh and Jake about the issues with their dyno and I put my car back on after you were done. I ran 219/235 peak the first run set earlier, and the second set I ran it in 4th gear as before on the first set and got 227/227. We then ran the next pull in 3rd gear and after the heat soaking from that first run it still pulled 243/237. Note that I'm still working the WGDC tune and the boost was fluctuating big time which helped kill the numbers as well.

What does all this mean? Well it means that the overall gearing has a HUGE effect on the WHP data produced when it should NOT. The numbers from a Mustang dyno are IRRELAVENT to the actual SAE horsepower calculations. A Dynojet AWD dyno does NOT have this problem....

Note that you can change the air pressure in your tires to make improvements in your WHP(more TP equals less rolling resistance). If your numbers are lower, just put some more air in the tires and bring up the numbers a bit. Still not happy, then drop it a gear and make even MORE "power".

Oh, and on the second set of pulls my car set the TC, ABS, & DSC lights. The reason is the Mustang dyno has a single load cell on the drive rollers and a toothed rubber drive belt(think timing belt) to the other set for AWD. The Mustang is also equiped with an internal brake and rather than using the vehicle brakes, they use the dyno brake to slow the vehicle wheel speed. Nothing special about this, EXCEPT the belt drive stretches/recoils and allows the driven roller speed to diverge from the drive/brake roller speed which causes the car electronics to freak out, even with DSC OFF.

Note that Dynojets are gear driven with none of this crap, plus the WHP numbers ARE relavent and comparable from a variety of vehicles.

 

[dougefresh_]

^Great info. And OP... definitely don't feel bad. My buddy's previous Vette that he drag raced competitively ran the 1/4 mile in the low 11s... 11.2x. He had it pro-tuned on a mustang dyno, and it only "made" 330rwhp. With Mickey T's on the back, he was pulling the front of the car a good 6" off the ground on those runs. Just as a gross comparison, Skates ran a [email protected], fully bolted + meth and protune. Coincidentally, that almost the exact same time my buddy's 04' M5 pulls w/ 500 crank hps ([email protected]). Any my buddy running 11.2 only putting down 330whp.... as Joe explained it's waaay off actual numbers. Tune that beast, and hop on a dynojet if you want some good numbers

 

[p057]

didnt most car review sites test the MS6 out on Mustang Dynos?

 

[AtTheDriveIn]

I did 188 on that dyno so don't feel bad man. Funny because I did 228 on a Mustang dyno. I did see that heated debate with Father Forz and the guys at CPE. These guys were too much in a rush and the dyno itself was pretty sloppy. No AFR, boost, or other measurements were taken. A lot of these cars were half assed strapped in the dyno. They almost lost a CX7.

I came to the conclusion that I'm going to say fuck it to all these dynos. Its about this dyno and that dyno bla bla bla. I think I'm going to start measuring my gains in power on some sort of track. Time never lies. Fuck these dynos...

 

[daztd]

Was there a charge for doing the dyno jet.....I hope not.

 

[black widow]

I made with the K04 turbo 260WHP and 268torque on the CP-E dyno , i will return very soon for my Standback tuning because now i have the BNR stage 2 .

 

[triplejumper18]

We don't get fucked up dyno numbers and other issues on Cobb Surgeline's Mustang Dyno, which is used by Tim Bailey to tune the shit out of a lot of badass cars.

 

[FORZDA 1]

I made with the K04 turbo 260WHP and 268torque on the CP-E dyno , i will return very soon for my Standback tuning because now i have the BNR stage 2 .

That's nice. What size tires are you running? Let me know when you're heading to CPE and I'll drive up there to see it.....

 

[black widow]

OEM size , i have some troubles with the STandback and PnP , lot of cell , P2187,P2127,P0703 , dead throttle pedal + cruise control doesn't work etc ....

Now the Standback has been removed and my car run like a charm without cell so i still wait for the Cp-E answer about their warranty , my gold is to ship the parts to them and after check-up or repair i will drive from Montreal for Standback installation + tuning . I want to be sure everything will be fine with their PnP . It's not a good thing to have a dead throttle pedal .

 

[yoichi]

Their dyno is not always calibrated. Some people put down decent numbers with little mods and some put down ugly numbers with much more mods. Its not consistent. Just use it as a before/after. Theres no way in hell a stock k04 puts down 260s on that dyno.
My car put down 270/274 w/ meth on that damn dyno and 343/356 on a DJ.
240s on that dyno is like 310~on a DJ.
If you want just numbers, don't even bother putting your car on that dyno. Just use it for calibration. Its useless.

 

[yoichi]

OEM size , i have some troubles with the STandback and PnP , lot of cell , P2187,P2127,P0703 , dead throttle pedal + cruise control doesn't work etc ....

Now the Standback has been removed and my car run like a charm without cell so i still wait for the Cp-E answer about their warranty , my gold is to ship the parts to them and after check-up or repair i will drive from Montreal for Standback installation + tuning . I want to be sure everything will be fine with their PnP . It's not a good thing to have a dead throttle pedal .

Your PnP is shot. I had the same issue twice.
The PG one is more reliable.

 

[black widow]

Here my dyno sheet , 260 is real man , look the address on the top !

 

[black widow]

Your PnP is shot. I had the same issue twice.
The PG one is more reliable.

They won't to answer my e-mail .... i don't know why .
Will try to call them tomorrow .

 

[FORZDA 1]

Yeah, they're probably still recovering from the dyno day event!

 

[FORZDA 1]

Their dyno is not always calibrated.......... Its useless.

Yeah, this is true. The problem with that dyno series is it does NOT use the actual engine rpms, it uses the "calibration" done by the operator EACH time a car is rolled up onto it. The operator is told to rev the car to 4k rpms in the test gear and the dyno is then "calibrated" for roller speed vs rpms. There is a huge problem with that in I can skew the numbers ANY way I want with that "calibration", PLUS the gearing of the test vehicle makes a HUGE difference. You could take a given engine, dyno it there to establish the baseline, change the tires to a smaller diameter, or run it in a lower gear and get a BIG improvement in WHP when the actual engine power is the SAME. FACT= The Mustang dyno is USELESS to compare to ANYTHING other than one pull to the next on the SAME car WITHOUT "recalibrating" the dyno. Certainly NOT one car to the next.

It is a dirt-simple purely resistive Load only dyno. The drive rollers (with a single Load cell on one end of the primary roller shaft and is belted together with another set of passive rollers for AWD) has a set resistance to rotation (the Load) and the dyno measures how quickly your car spins the rollers to what speed, and applies the Mustang software to convert into numbers. That is IT. So when someone complains about their low or even their great numbers on a Mustang dyno, their numbers are worthless except subsequent pulls on their car on THAT day....

I don't give a crap about the whp numbers themselves, but I learned several BIG pieces of info at the CPE dyno day. The first thing is just how hard those dudes and dudettes work to support their businees venture. Jake listened to all my feedback on their dyno and how unsatified I was with how it was operated. He wanted to make SURE that I was fully satisified (no ****!) with their operation which is why he offered and did put it back up on the rollers for more testing, and I left the event satisfied in what I had seen and learned.

The Mustang dyno shenanagins is one, another is that I spent ~30 minutes with CPE's famous Lou, the electrical engineer who designed the SB and all the flashes and is literally the brain that runs ALL the CPE electronics/product business. I got a full tour of their design and manufacturing equipment, saw some new Speed products in development, and had some candid conversation about the AP/flash vs SB/flash combo and the "rivalry"(?) between the two entities(Cobb & CPE).

I had a EUREKA! moment when re-running the event and all the conversations Lou, Josh, Jake, and a couple of their other guys through my head afterwards and I'm fairly certain I have the "Big Power" CPE SB/flash theory figured out. It has always been a strange point to me that with the reflash capability CPE obviously has, why they still need the SB to make it all work and that the SB MUST must be used to tune the car and the AP will NOT work on the ECU afterwards. I will refrain from spilling it until I run a FULL test and tune on a local dyno to confirm it works as I have theorized and I can flash the ECU and tune it using the AP and that it does NOT specifically require the SB. If I'm wrong I'll obviously report that as well!!!

 

[jvoss65]

As someone who has spent a lot of time around that dyno I can tell you it reads really low, we nicknamed it the heartbreaker early on. As Forzda1 has said, don't take the numbers themselves that seriously, it is most useful as a tuning tool where adjustments can be made and quantified, tweaked again, and quantified again.

So now that we have all agreed that thing runs low, I saw something incredible there 2 weeks ago. There was a private event at MIR (drag strip) on a friday, and on Sat a tuner rented it to do some tuning. I showed up to work on my track car (the blue focus SVT in there) and much to my surprise was greated by M3's and various AMG's parked out front.

All cool stuff but then there was the CLK55 with the Kleemann badge. Didn't sound like any Benz I've ever heard, pulling in it sounded like something American and mean, really mean. I was told head work, cams, and a Kleemann supercharger. The first time they ripped it to redline everyone there stopped what there were doing and turned in awe. You could feel that car in your chest.

773 lb-ft at the wheels, and oh yeah it was slipping on the rollers. On the next run two of us sat in the trunk it still was slipping. Ridiculous. It ran 10.5 in 1/4 the day before. I've never seen anything put down anything close to that on that dyno.