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Changing the oil more often than recommended by the owners book is a complete waste of money! Follow the book. Ignore the dealer advice too.
 

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Originally posted by Da 6+Dec 26 2004, 01:13 PM-->
I'm going to be doing a 800Mile oil change but I need info on the engine before I do this..I looked and it's a damn cartridge setup but not shure if it's a 4.5 or 5 qt pan. What and where on the engine do I look this info up?
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You will find fluid capacities in the manual that came with the car, in the glovebox.

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@Dec 26 2004, 01:13 PM
How long does the break-in period last?
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Taken from the 2005 "quick tips" book that comes with the new car's--->
Break in period- first 600 miles:Drive at varying road and engine speeds: avoid full throttle, rapid acceleration or kick-down of the automatic transmission-

Also it say's the first oil change should be at 7,500 miles :nono:

I was told by two different dealers that the Mazdas have no break in period. Talk about goofy. :sarc:


Ryan
 

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Originally posted by jmcoates+Apr 12 2005, 04:09 PM-->
  Changing the oil more often than recommended by the owners book is a complete waste of money! Follow the book. Ignore the dealer advice too. [/b]
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@Oct 2 2004, 04:52 AM


Why Your Dealer is a DumbAss and You Should Never Believe a Single Thing They Say.
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This is why you change your factory fill oil out earlier than the factory recomended interval. While you certainly won't cause your car any severe harm by running 7500 mile changes, do not dismiss more frequent oil changes as folly. Driving habits, weather conditions and the oil used can have a very signifigant impact on the service life of the oil and thereby impact the long term wear of your engine.
 

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Originally posted by pisadong@May 4 2005, 10:41 PM
do not dismiss more frequent oil changes as folly. Driving habits, weather conditions and the oil used can have a very signifigant impact on the service life of the oil and thereby impact the long term wear of your engine.
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Amen, I can't fathom taking my new engine to 7500 miles before the first oil change. It's like they are trying to impress you at the dealership. "oh this car has no break-in and oil changes are 5000 miles, har har"


Ryan
 

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Changing the oil early only benefits the oil companies. I have never met a single person who had premature engine failure for not changing their oil enough (although my sister blew up her VW Rabbit engine by running it on less that an quart for quite some time).

I use Castrol Syntec 20W-50 for summer, and 5W-30 for winter. Puralator Pure-One oil fiter (best filtration, and only slightly restrictive).

A car engine does not require "warm up" before you start driving.

Hi everybody!!! My first post here. Love my 2004 Mazda 6 Wagon. I've had it for three months and have 12,000 miles on it.

I am NOT loving my dealership though... but more on that later.
 

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You might want to start educating yourself.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Quick summary:

1) Higher viscosity oil does not equal more protection. In fact, in some cases (especially engines requiring certain flow characteristics) it can greatly increase wear. Don't believe me? Check the ferrari guys running 5w-20's with better wear numbers then the 60wt's. The 6i and 6s like 20 and 30 wt oils best.

2) Wear metals in the 1st 1000 miles of a cars life are expodentially higher then any other point. Flushing the oil out (costs less then 8 dollars) gets the casting material and breakin material out, and helps prevent cascading wear.

Quick UOA comparison.



Whats a UOA? A used oil analysis...an analysis of the wear metals contained in the oil...kinda of blood work for an engine. UOA's provide fact and evidence instead of "my uncle's brother said...".

UOA info at
http://www.mazda6tech.com/articles/mainten...l-analysis.html

Where to get a UOA
http://www.blackstone-labs.com

3) Oil smell, color, and taste are not indicative of protection.

4) Some 20 wt oils actually have superior additive and base stocks then heavier "old tech" oils. Redline 5w-20 has a higher HTHS number them most 40 wt oils!
 

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Originally posted by crossbow@May 11 2005, 08:54 AM
You might want to start educating yourself.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Quick summary:

1) Higher viscosity oil does not equal more protection.  In fact, in some cases (especially engines requiring certain flow characteristics) it can greatly increase wear.  Don't believe me?  Check the ferrari guys running 5w-20's with better wear numbers then the 60wt's.  The 6i and 6s like 20 and 30 wt oils best. 

2) Wear metals in the 1st 1000 miles of a cars life are expodentially higher then any other point.  Flushing the oil out (costs less then 8 dollars) gets the casting material and breakin material out, and helps prevent cascading wear.

Quick UOA comparison.



Whats a UOA?  A used oil analysis...an analysis of the wear metals contained in the oil...kinda of blood work for an engine.  UOA's provide fact and evidence instead of "my uncle's brother said...".

UOA info at
http://www.mazda6tech.com/articles/mainten...l-analysis.html

Where to get a UOA
http://www.blackstone-labs.com

3) Oil smell, color, and taste are not indicative of protection.

4) Some 20 wt oils actually have superior additive and base stocks then heavier "old tech" oils.  Redline 5w-20 has a higher HTHS number them most 40 wt oils!
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I think you meant exponentially, and I don't care about UOA as it means absolutely nothing. If the particles are small enough to get through the filter, then they will not do any damage whatsoever to an engine. Also, if particles are soft enough to get worn off in the break in period, then they are not hard enough to do any damage to the cylinder walls or rings (the areas of concern).

I will continue to use my higher viscosity oil for summer driving (specifically Castrol Syntec). Depending on the oil pump design, very low viscosity oils can damage an engine (Mobil 1 was not recommended for VW's for quite a while because of the oil pump design, which required a minimum viscosity). I do not believe for one second that higher viscosity oils can damage an engine at all (over 150 degrees F, they all are like water). Don't even bring up professional racing engines, as they have no bearing on normal everyday driving. Performance is the only concern there, not longevity.

I will also add the reason you want to vary your RPM's during break in, is to prevent the pistons "reaching" to the same spot in the cylinders, as this can create a small ridge in the cylinder that when the piston reaches past that point, the rings can chip.

I don't care if people change thneir oil ever 50 miles. It's just a waste.
 

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Originally posted by MowerMan@May 11 2005, 08:09 AM
A car engine does not require "warm up" before you start driving.
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I totally disagree with this statement. A car engine needs at least 10-20 seconds after start-up in order to get ALL fluids moving and working correctly. This includes the oil and coolant. The time should increase on colder days (up to 2 minutes in below zero temperatures).

I can personally attest to this. If I start it and go, there's a slight hesitation in acceleration for the first 30 seconds or so, then it smooths out, no problem. If I let it idle for a bit, then go, acceleration is strong out of the gate.

Crossbow, do you agree?
 

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I don't care about UOA as it means absolutely nothing. If the particles are small enough to get through the filter, then they will not do any damage whatsoever to an engine.
I think you just ruined all your further arguments on this forum with that statement.

Crossbow, do you agree?
Since the PCM actually throws check engine lights if you throttle on the car before its warmed up, I'd agree. BMW feels that allowing a car to properly warm up is so important, they build a variable redline into the M3 to prevent idiots from damaging the car. Sitting there and letting it idle isn't good, but you shouldn't start the car and immediately go flying down the street at WOT.

Here's a shot of the variable redline.

The yellow turns to red when you first start the car, and turns back to yellow as the vehicle warms up and the oil and coolant reach operating temps.

 

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Originally posted by crossbow@May 11 2005, 10:31 AM
I think you just ruined all your further arguments on this forum with that statement.
Since the PCM actually throws check engine lights if you throttle on the car before its warmed up, I'd agree.  BMW feels that allowing a car to properly warm up is so important, they build a variable redline into the M3 to prevent idiots from damaging the car.  Sitting there and letting it idle isn't good, but you shouldn't start the car and immediately go flying down the street at WOT.

Here's a shot of the variable redline.

The yellow turns to red when you first start the car, and turns back to yellow as the vehicle warms up and the oil and coolant reach operating temps.


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20 seconds to 2 minutes would be normal warmup just ot get going, but not waiting will do no harm to your engine. The engine running is the engine running, and it makes no difference if you are moving or not. The Mazda 6 manual says no warm-up (as in a method to save fuel). Please explain the difference in the engine running with the car moving, as opposed to the engine running at a standstill.

I don't see where any further arguement is ruined at all with my absolutly correct statement. Your statement is completely nebulous, and does not assert any facts whatsoever.

Maybe you should educate youself of lapping compounds, polishing compounds, strengths of materials, and the rockwell scale. There is no emperical data whatsoever that shows that changing your oil per manufacturers recommended specifications causes any inordinate detrimental wear to your engine.

I mean no insult or injury to anyone. Just stating facts.
 

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Originally posted by MowerMan+May 11 2005, 11:21 AM-->
Please explain the difference in the engine running with the car moving, as opposed to the engine running at a standstill.
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Duh, when the car is moving, the engine usually is running at different revs, depending on the throttle and gearing (unless you just throw it in gear and let the motor pull you at <1 MPH. Takes a while getting anywhere that way...) When it's at standstill, the engine is IDLING, usually at a constant, LOW RPM (unless you decide to tap the accelerator).
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@May 11 2005, 11:21 AM
I mean no insult or injury to anyone.  Just stating facts.
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So am I.
 

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Originally posted by MowerMan@May 11 2005, 03:21 PM
I don't see where any further arguement is ruined at all with my absolutly correct statement.  Your statement is completely nebulous, and does not assert any facts whatsoever.

Maybe you should educate youself of lapping compounds, polishing compounds, strengths of materials, and the rockwell scale. There is no emperical data whatsoever that shows that changing your oil per manufacturers recommended specifications causes any inordinate detrimental wear to your engine.
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Wow, you aren't making friends with a statement like that.

I consider Crossbow as one of the 'tech' guru of this forum. And I don't think it's nice for you to post something like that especially for a newbie. Just my take on it. :slap:
 

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I don't care about UOA as it means absolutely nothing. If the particles are small enough to get through the filter, then they will not do any damage whatsoever to an engine.
Those who want to learn can visit
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
and formulate your own opinions.

Just because evidence counters your thoughts or beliefs doesn't mean its wrong, it just means your not looking at the whole picture.
 

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Well, I actually did want to make friends here, but I won't compromise facts for anybody.

What is in question here, is whether changing you oil at 1000 miles makes a difference in lifespan or performance of the engine. It most certainly does not. I don't care about UOA or what some "oil guy" says. That does nothing to prove the assertion that changing oil at 1000 miles does anything beneficial (I changed mine at 4500 miles).

The rings an cylinder walls are the hardest materials in the engine. No "cause and effect" relationship has ever been established that waiting to change your oil at 5000 miles causes any undue wear to any parts in the engine, especially rings and cylinder walls.

I may be a "newbie" here, but I can already see that it's not a very welcoming place unless you play "fanboy".

Show me some emperical data, with direct cause and effect releationships, and then I may buy into your theory. Just calling me "uneducated" is hardly any way to boulster a debate.

Waiting to start out with a cold engine has more to do with initializing the fuel system, than it has anything to do with lubrication. That is what would cause "hesitation".

BTW the BWM cockpit is nice, but also does nothing to boulster a debating position.
 

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Originally posted by crossbow@May 11 2005, 01:09 PM
You have the evidence, you just need to read it.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
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Hmnmm... Looking at that site, I see nothing I can consider as "evidence" that any harm is caused to an engine by waiting to change the oil per manufacturers recommended specifications. I may have just missed it, so if there is some real emperical data there, then you should point to it specifically.

"Evidence" not emperical data. To prove your point by using scientific methodology (experimentation), you would have to take two identical engines, running them under controlled conditions, in one of them changing the oil at 1000 miles, and then compare and contrast the wear on the engine parts between the two engines. Then you would have to repeat the experiment a number of times to average out any small manufacturing differences in the engines. That is how one would collect true "emperical data".

My contention is that there would be no significant difference in wear between the two engines at 5000 miles, or even at 205,000 miles under controlled conditions.

Crossbow, I hope this difference in opinion does not make it impossible for us to be friends. Without any doubt, you are a wealth of knowledge concerning these vehicles (I've read a bunch of your other posts).
 

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Originally posted by Jax6S@May 11 2005, 07:01 PM
Get your own conclusions:

Post 1

Post 2

Post 3

Post 4

And many more...
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The conclusion would be... There is not one bit of emperical data there. Show me pictures of 100 oil pans for every model of car in production after 1000 miles (or whatever it was). That is the only thing there that comes close to any kind of real data, and the sample population if far too small to be conclusive in any way.

Not only that, debris in the oil pan means little (at least for further damage, but it probably indicates past damage). The oil pan is the last place the oil resides, anf oil goes through the filter before it get to any other parts of the engine. Any particulate matter that makes it past the oil filter is either...

1) Too small to cause any undue wear.

or

2) Too soft to cause any undue wear

or

3) All of the above

Opinions and anecdotes have nothing to do with science.

Changing your oil at 1000mi or 100mi or every 50 miles certainly doesn't hurt (well maybe your pocketbook), but it also buys you nothing (well maybe some personal satisfaction).

Hey, whatever blows your skirt up!
 
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